What So Big Deal About China

last SG · 2004-07-19T09:30:44+00:00

i think we singaporean should stop looking down on china. afterall we are chinese. it the china top foreign policy to uphold one china policy. let forget abo...

TuxedoMars SG

Yeah true..XiaoPing and ZhiDong may have been harsh on their own ppl but at least they they how and when things are just petty issues...and they dont really bother about other nation's business. they were not so petty n narrow minded like the current leaders. making things look like a disaster over this issue. LMAO i cant believe this...making the news so HARD when they kept sooooo very quiet abt SARS and only admitted when they cant hide it any further!...LMFAO! what a sham and full of Shame! Im not trying to say they created Sars or anything..at least they could have shared and alerted the world that a new deadly virus has surfaced! maybe PRC giovt wanted to get nobel prize to be the first to find a cure lol! how wrong and it killed many. what can u say abt that?....thats a crime for covering up too but the world is more forgiving to overlook PRCs misgivings!....so PRC govt.....stfu, grow up.
Dont make ppl see you as little children in a man suit. We, Singaporeans have every RIGHTS to visit when and where we want to. Not to sound bias, the Prc ppl also hav every rights to go where they want to. But talking (S.H.I.T) and trying to decide which nation can visit which country, its as good as trying to undermine Sing govt's decision and intelligence. so thats
we maynot be united in our countrie's policies but thats for our own singaporean to say or bear abt it...but Alien verbal threat and abuse?...Its A F u c k i n g BIG NO NO!...so shut it PRC and get on with life...unless if this is the only kinda life u love living going around ordering ppl bla bla bla...=SAD
Laughing [/quote]

Blueray SG

Actually HongKong is doing fine. Their economy is fast recovering. HongKong may appear chaotic to many of you but that's because they are a matured democracy. Unlike Singapore where gathering of 5 or more people is considered illegal assembly, the people of HongKong have every right to protest and speak up against matters they don't like. This is how a real democracy works.

sgdiehard SG

One must not be simplistic in comparing Hong Kong before and after China took over. Bear in mind that China took over in 1997, the same yr financial crisis struck Asia and HK was hit in no way lighter than any other country.

HK has actually done well. What they were facing were much worse than Singapore: 1. Properties prices went down, Shenzhen and other Chinese southern cities grew stronger and really threaten their position. Many HK ppl now go to these places for properties. 2. Ports in Guangzhou and Zhuhai are taking away HK business. 3. Taiwanese can now go into China via Macau, hence reduce reliance on HK airport. 4. HK have to continue to depend on trade, services and finance, without manufacturing. 5. Shanghai threatening their financial center position.

With so much against them, they have done well.

What is interesting to see is that they are moving a step further, going for more political freedom. We see year after year over half a million ppl take to the streets. Even in Indonesia we saw a big election with 5 parties involved went on peacefully. In Singapore, our government is still afraid that any strong opposition will jeopardise our political stability, any political rally will fraighten away investors.

Sigh!! It is about time Singapore can show others that we have also grown up. Sorry I digress a bit, just can't help seeing the difference.

creamtart SG

it seems a lot of people in Singapore appears to understand China? But is it so? Truelly speaking, many of you dont know what china is.

I am self a Chinese, I confess I dont know much about Singapore. Despite that, whenever Singapore is mentioned in China, Chinese people would mostly fondly take it as a country, with which we share a common cultural and historical root. So in our hearts, we dont have any animosity towards u. But here in this forum, i am so sorry to learn that common singaporians should have so much ill feeling towards us and even intend to look down upon us. As a Chinese, that is completely unacceptable to me.

About your Prince Lee's visit to TW, he has intentionally stepped upon a red line that China has always warned about. OK, if Singaporians think that it is their country's right to decide which country their head should visit, then china equally have right to react in its own way, and your Prince should already have known what the consequence would be before he went to TW.

Qkool SG

so what ppl in singaporean have ill feeling toward china chinese, the % of china chinese who been brainwash by china media sure more than the whole population of singapore.

btw, the so call 'thin red line' , u china also dont know how to define.

anyway, thank for the missiles and missiles tech sold to malaysia.
Fair enough? still need any woman or anything?

creamtart SG

To say 'brainwash', singaporians like u are really 'brainwashed'. About u, i should agree with comments already made by others.

stupidissmart SG

it shuld be noted tat there r always people tat have extreme views in forums. Their stand is not the common stand of singapore, and we do not take the comments taken from chinese forums seriously either. I believe tat in chinese forums they r also badmouthing singapore agressively too. It is impossible to stop people from posting politically correct messages, just like it is impossible for chinese forum to stop posting insensitive messages too

About your Prince Lee's visit to TW, he has intentionally stepped upon a red line that China has always warned about. OK, if Singaporians think that it is their country's right to decide which country their head should visit, then china equally have right to react in its own way, and your Prince should already have known what the consequence would be before he went to TW.

The thing is tat it had resort to threats. Lets say US forces chinese to unpeg the value of RMB, othewise they will launch a war against u. It is their right to launch a war they desire too isn't it ? They have an equal right to react in its own way too ? Japan insist of using his army in searching a soldier in china who they claimed is a desertee. If chinese do not allow them to search, they will launch a war against them. China really refuse and Japanese really start the war against chinese during WW2. So chinese has the right to reject japan, but japan is right since he has the right to react in his own ways ?

No country should threathen other nations to perform they things they wanted.

creamtart SG

Originally posted by stupidissmart:

The thing is tat it had resort to [b]threats. Lets say US forces chinese to unpeg the value of RMB, othewise they will launch a war against u. It is their right to launch a war they desire too isn't it ? They have an equal right to react in its own way too ? Japan insist of using his army in searching a soldier in china who they claimed is a desertee. If chinese do not allow them to search, they will launch a war against them. China really refuse and Japanese really start the war against chinese during WW2. So chinese has the right to reject japan, but japan is right since he has the right to react in his own ways ?

No country should threathen other nations to perform they things they wanted. [/b]

Chinese government just gives warnings and never threatens war against Singapore. I think there is fundamental difference between the two concepts. If Prince Lee went to TW and the mainland government vioced no complaint(just as you wish), that would indeed be strange.

sgdiehard SG

Do not assume that those who post here represent the views and opinion of common singaporean. Just like I do not think you represent generally the mainland Chinese.

As a person, whether you are mainland Chinese or Singaporean, you uphold yoursellf by they way you behave, or in such forum, what you say. People will also look down on you if you say stupid things.

Do not crown LHL as prince, please. We don do that in Singapore. We vote PAP into the parliament and PAP selected the PM to run the cabinet and the country. Not even in China do you crown anybody as emperor or prince anymore, even if you still do not have the right to vote.

creamtart SG

1. What I say here in the forum only represents what I think as a common PRC citizen.

2. I dont think what I do and say here degrades or shames myself. you should look down upon those singaporians who said and did stupid things.

geruicheng SG

I think the issues here is all about sovereignty.. Every state in the world is very protective of their soversignty... After all it is the very reason for their (the state) exsitence.

Sad to say, protecting one's sovereignty in this interconnecting world often means that we will have to infringe upon other's sovereignty... There is countless examples that one can quote. A simple example would be, we wanted haze-free air in Spore, so we wanted Indonesia to stop the forest fire. Indonesia has the right to say "it's my forest we are burning what.." or something aloong that line.. (Don't flame me.. as I know that this issues can well lead to another round of debate.. Just quoting an example)

In this case, Sporean will feel that it is our right to visit who we want to visit. PRC will feel that we are recongizing Taiwan as a independent state thus threatening their sovereignty.

I guess this is where diplomacy comes in. Negotiate something where every county will be satisifed..

creamtart SG

And about the LEE 'empire'---quoto from The Economist

Mr Lee hardly seems the plunging type. He is the son of Singapore' s founding father, Lee Kuan Yew, and shares his father's measured, practical and technocratic approach to government. He also shares a somewhat condescending, didactic bent, and a tendency to chide and admonish rather than charm and encourage. His speeches brim with grim economic prognoses and stern injunctions to Singaporeans to tighten their belts. After a 14-year interval under the affable Goh Chok Tong, most Singaporeans will find the reversion of leadership to the Lee dynasty more like a cold shower than an exhilarating leap into the unknown.

Mr Lee senior, now 80 years old, still sits in the cabinet (as senior minister, rather than prime minister), and supervises the Government Investment Corporation (GIC), which manages Singapore's foreign reserves. Meanwhile, Mr Lee junior's wife, Ho Ching, runs Temasek, a government holding company that owns stakes in Singapore's biggest firms, while his brother, Lee Hsien Yang, runs Singapore Telecommunications, the biggest local firm of all.

Fans of the family argue that this concentration of power stems simply from its members' remarkable talent, not their connections. They claim the younger Mr Lee's rapid ascent through the ranks of the army to become a brigadier-general by the age of 32 rested purely on merit, as did his promotion to the post of deputy prime minister after only six years in politics.

The prime-minister-to-be certainly projects great intelligence and determination. He has survived a bout of cancer and stoically endured the death of his first wife. While in the army, he directed the dramatic rescue of passengers stranded in a disabled cable car. As finance minister, he has presided over a much-needed and much-delayed liberalisation of the financial sector. His father says that he would already be prime minister were it not for misplaced concerns about nepotism.

But many Singaporeans assume that Mr Lee père struck a deal with Mr Goh, engineering his rise to power in exchange for a promise that he would eventually give way to Mr Lee fils. At any rate, Mr Goh made the younger Mr Lee his deputy from the moment he succeeded the elder Mr Lee as prime minister, in 1990. The new man has never had any rivals. The members of the ruling People's Action Party (PAP), which controls all but two seats in parliament, selected him unanimously as prime minister, as did the party's executive committee and the cabinet.

The new Mr Lee appears to see nothing wrong with this sort of arrangement. He fiercely defends the PAP's more underhand election tactics, such as threatening to put districts that vote for the opposition at the bottom of the list for public spending. He claims to want a more vigorous public debate, but promises to demolish any critic who undermines the government's standing. The threat is real: in recent years, one opposition figure found himself bankrupt after losing a defamation suit, while another wound up in jail.

sgdiehard SG

No, there is nothing you said that I should look down on you. Any way I do not form opinion based on one or two postings.

In my opinion you are not a common PRC citizen, you are overseas and you expressed well in english.

Keep posting and let us hear more about what PRC chinese think, be constructive and positive. Thanks.

stupidissmart SG

As i said before, china is threatening people not to go to taiwan which is really none of his business. Although war is a bit too heavy, but then the concept is the same. China refuse to obey Japan in letting them search for the soldier, thus Japan can have the right to launch a war ? We cannot resort to threats such as claiming the ties will be off and start a series of actions or war to force other people to do wat u want. Tat is threathening. How do u feel if u r threathen to do a thing which u do not desire ?

runningismylife SG

As a Singaporean Chinese, i guess it would be the most appropriate race and nationality to comment on this issue.

Taiwan is an instrumental ally to us, this cannot be doubted. They provided us with land for our military exercises, and provided us with economical and technologcal security in the midst of China's Cultural Revolution, and Big Four's chaos. Hence historically, we are indebted to them, for they did not turn away a ailing small nation.

China in turn, has become something like a two-faced man. Relations blow hot, blow cold, and this is something not promising for a country dependent on global trade(Singapore). Singapore has so far done nothing that should infuriate China. And even though we have a population of 70% Chinese, we are not subordinated to any Chinese Govt. Taiwan has remained our ally through these years, due our American relations, and due to our commitments there.

But i have to say that, China-Bashing is no answer. No matter what govt is in control of China, our roots are still in the land mass of China. We are still Chinese, and we'll still support one another. Why let politics destroy your roots?

The Communist Party had their Cultural Revolution and other upheavals. But what makes you think we're so much off better? We had our dialects waved away in order to make the political climate in Singapore more favorable for the ruling party, and we had so many other customs, cultures taken away in order for us to feel nothing for China, as during the 60s-70s, China was communists, and we're non-communists.

But all these posts by so many of us proves something, that after all of that "Speak Mandarin Campagin", "Speak English Campaign", we're still fundementally Chinese at heart.

So leave the Taiwan Politics to still chair-throwing and pie-slinging, and leave the China Politics to their threats to curb their insecurity. We're still Chinese at heart.

However, beneath all this. There is but one clear winner. As Chinese throw one another at each throat, who stands to gain?

Roquet SG

To Qkool,

I have throught singaporeans do better in seeking truth from facts than Taiwanese. But now, you and another guy did not so good this time. Please see
http://www.zaobao.com/gj/yx504_210704.html
The missiles are short range surface-to-air missiles. what's the meaning of the missiles? This is a knid of defensive weapon, which can only attack air targets within 5 miles. I think if there is no hostile fighters flying into Malaysia, then the missile is just like a garnish. It is funny to treat a shield as threat.

China never forgets those who have ever helped us, we always try our best to return even with double. Just as we never forget it is the singaporean who offered us an ambulance to finght with japanese in 1940s, and lots of aid from many countries during the big flood in1998.
If you review the relationship between singapore and china before and after
establishing diplomatic relation, you will see, no other country can have the same convenience as singapore's leader to visit China before establishing diplomatic relation. After that day, no other country can have the same convenience as singapore's leader to visit Taiwan. (See http://www.zaobao.com/yl/yl501_240704.html, http://www.zaobao.com/yl/yl504_210704.html). Certainly, it is not strange to singapore, but very strange to any other country. This is only because we treat Singapore as a trustable friend, and Singapore did push all things to good side in the past. But now, see, does your DPM visit bring any positive influence to the local relationship?

Now, it still is a very tough time for China and chinese. We are so poor during the past 100 years, so as to be discriminated even including some overseas chinese. As your said: chinaman.
Whatever you are a chinese or not, since you expressed your stupid arrogance and the ignorance in some basic knowledge, you are not worth for us to make a friend! You can stay "cool" aside.

Roquet SG

Serious discussion is appreciate. I am very sorry to bring your memory back to SARS crisis. I do believe all what you quoted. However, I also do believe the behaviours recorded in our files which are "missing" in yours, just like "I never heard" and some things in the Asean leaders meeting. So, I am sorry for that. We talked too much about our PMs, let we just look at other side. Of course, if you want to know more about the PMs, you can do by yourself.

As to Taiwan, maybe you can see my post to Qkool. China has never attacked the relationship between Singapore and Taiwan, but, this is subjected to the agreement when we established diplomatic relation. Now, the fact, Chen Shui Bian is very happy with your DPM visit, so that Chen treated DPM Lee as the highest level official visitor. "private visit" becomes a word only in speaking. So, if there are somthing out of control, whose fault?
You can see http://www.zaobao.com/yl/yl504_210704.html

I am quite accustomed to those like "I can only see china ....".
Now Singaporeans have free entrance permit to China for fiften days, do chinese obtain the same right from Singapore?

btw, so tired...

Qkool SG

what a military Noob..
dont even know ur own weapon

http://bbs.china.com/military/html/board_57_post/604811/2454638.html

and if you free, read this..

http://www.zaobao.com/yl/yl501_220704.html

stupidissmart SG

Things seems to be getting brighter now. About the other forumers who had are more "patriotic", just treat it as part and parcel of things in a forum.

Frankly I realise tat media is censored by the gov.. it seems to be happeneing even in US itself during Iraq war too.

Now, the fact, Chen Shui Bian is very happy with your DPM visit, so that Chen treated DPM Lee as the highest level official visitor. "private visit" becomes a word only in speaking. So, if there are somthing out of control, whose fault?

Looking from another light, we r victims of circumstances ourselves. As i said before, it is meant to be low-keyed. Even in our newspaper and news we do not know tat our DPM has travel to taiwan. Only when it has blown big in taiwan then do we know about it...

Now Singaporeans have free entrance permit to China for fiften days, do chinese obtain the same right from Singapore?

I believe tat singapore is one of the easiest and cheapest visa to obtain for chinese or for most of the world. I had a China chinese friend who had much much trouble trying to obtain visa for a business trip to japan or germany. For a visa to japan, they demand a guarantor from a japanese resident residing in japan. For a visa to Indonesia it costs $70 US too.

SibeiSuayKia SG

haiz...sian wor KS-1 missile system how it works??

it seems like a clone of stinger..

Anyway , Regarding the TW issue.. , no comments lol..
just hope singapore and china can patch up

and i hope china in turn, will sabotage the missiles with duds

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