What So Big Deal About China

last SG · 2004-07-19T09:30:44+00:00

i think we singaporean should stop looking down on china. afterall we are chinese. it the china top foreign policy to uphold one china policy. let forget abo...

Roquet SG

Are you kidding now? I dont ask you where you got the news, just ask you how you can think the chinese missiles threaten Singapore? Do you really think there is another Kuwait or Israel in Asia? Do you really think any other country in Asia has an ambition to Singapore? If you talk about threat, then there is a Chinese saying: there is no unreasonable LOVE in the world, and there is no unreasonable HATE in the world too! Before you suspect others, you should look at yourself first, what you have done to others! Actually, Singapore should feel lucky to stay in Asia and lucky to have a friend like China!

You talked about missiles pointing at taiwan. OK, let me give you a lesson. Do you really think those missiles will fall on the island? Do you really think it is valuable for China to use thoes valuable missials to just destroy a few stone buildings? Use your brain! If there is no warship from the famous country in the channel in 1950s, how can the tanwan crisis happen now? A war comes to true only because another military force interferes and supports taiwan independence. Remember, did they cross over 38?

You talked about chinese killing in the civil war. You should learn more about history, not only chinese, but also world and yourself's. Then you will know who was keeping to carry weapons to china battle field to kill another part chinese. Did chinese send a single bullet to Washington general? Do you dare to say that nobody was killed when Singapore set up? then where did those reactionaries go? evaporated?

It is not strange to your cold-war-thinking. However, look at practice, you cannot find another country like China to keep peace in Asia. But, we know that famous country has brought two wars to Asia, and both failed. Now Asia is growing in all aspects, so the third war seems to be closer and closer. Who will benefit from the war? Use your brain, not vainly hope only!

Once again, Before you suspect others, you should look at yourself first, what you have done to others! Singapore should feel lucky to stay in Asia and lucky to have a friend like China! At least, this friend has tried her best and hurt herself deeply to help Asia to overcome economy crisis in 1997-1998!
Did you live in Mars at that time?

If you still use cold-war-thinking to look at China, then what I can only say is: an idiot cannot be educated. Hope you are not like that.

SibeiSuayKia SG

The way u argue is like SAF has no duty to be here in the 1st place.

why so many arms in the 1st place?

Roquet SG

do you have any other excuse to reply my post?

Qkool SG

may i ask u a question? how china had hurt so badly in the economy crisis by helping Asia? give more detail pls?
economy growth drop?
for what i know, china only stable the RMB..what hurt so bad?(pls correct me if im wrong)

i do agree china had help Asia,but China main is to help HK,dont forget 1997 HK just return to china..they must defend HK economy.

yes,as chinese.it hurt to learn china been bully by other from 100yr back.

i do feel lucky ..for US supporting singapore in Trade and military.
i do feel lucky for england for helping us for water and indepandent.
i do feel lucky for Israel for help us to build our army.

i really think china is a peaceful friend..really .
but no few missiles aim at taiwan? it 400 missiles leh..
just think you are taiwanese? how you feel?
pls dont only look from china view .

and don't forget the SARS yet...have china aid singapore? taiwan?
ya...he have aid HK,and dont even have any word of apologise
from SARS.
so what when chairman HU want to donate $ to asia to fight against SARS?
japan also aid many $$$ to china,but they still own china an apologise.

go_china SG

First of all, I'm a citizen of PRC, and proud to be one.

Singapore, or for that matter, any other country has their rights to do what's in their best interest. BUT, DON"T STEP ON OTHERS TOES, or you're gonna have a foot in your ass.

I don't care if your Prince Lee's visit to our Taiwan province is official or unofficial. He made a carefully calculated political maneuver. And it backfired. So now you, as a country, will have to face the consequences. Don't like it?? Tell your Emperor Lee or Prince Lee to stop stick their noses in other people's business, or do you have any guts to say anything?

I'm a firm believer of asymmetric responses : be nice to me once, I'll be nice to you ten times; betray me once, I'll make sure you won't dare to do it again for the rest of your farting natural life.

Decision is yours, be wise.

singapeoplemoron SG

you are a real man!!!

totally support!!!

CenturionMBT SG

Do not degrade to personal insults or whatever. I do not give a damn how much you hate each other. But if any of you try to flood my forums, I will not let you all off. This is my first and last warning to all of you. Keep all relavent discussions in this thread only.

stupidissmart SG

First, I need to clarify I am not an anti-PRC person.

About the case of LHL going to taiwan, I believe tat china has gone a step too far. We still have dealings with Taiwan, like training soldiers, whether u like it or not. It is natural tat minister go over to iron out and dicsuss issues about it. Do u think we should send just any general to talk about tis important issue ? We know your stand on one-china policy, but isn't tat affirm during the visit ? Just because we r a small country or we r continuosly seeking friendship with china do tat mean we have to obey their orders.

It is like I am a good friend of named China and a friend named Taiwan. When both of them have an argument, it is not really my business. But why should China be angry with me when I talk with Taiwan. Is it the case of when China quarrels with anyone, then all his friends have to severed their relationship with tat person ? I want to talk with Taiwan and he wants to talk with me, why does it have anything to do with China ?

Although we r a small country, we do have pride too. Just because we r small, doesn't means we have to be bullied by bigger countries. Even when US intervenes in the case of Micheal Fay, he still have to be caned. We r a sovereign country, not a puppet state.

I hope arguments should be more on logical basis instead of emotional. It just makes u look dumb and cause more misunderstanding.

sgdiehard SG

To go_china,

Singapore is also a firm believer in returning kindness. Taiwan, or the ROC, has been supporting Singapore since our independence. Eygpt and India rejected our call to help set up SAF, it was the Isrealis who helped us set up the Army and Taiwan who provided the training ground. China was then going thru yr cultural revolution, killing yr own people and set Chinese civilisation back at least 20 yrs!! This is just one example.

When yr Teng Xiao Peng came to power and opened up China, who invested all the money into China to help China jump start yr economy? Taiwanese and all other overseas Chinese!! not the American or you did it yourself!! How are you returning such kindness?

Politically, Singapore recognised one China. We changed from recognising ROC to PRC. It remains our hope that Taiwan is united with China in a peaceful manner. Teng Xiao Peng and Lee Peng knew it, they understood and accepted the fact that Singapore cannot abandon Taiwan total just like that. They certainly have the big heart of big leaders. Now China is bigger economically, but do you have the big heart?? yr action shows.

Singaporeans go to poll once every 4 yrs, to elect our leaders. We have the right to vote! Chinese in China have no right to vote so you have a long long way to go before you can call our leader emperor or prince!!

So read yr history, know yourself, and speak wisely. Let others respect you for yr wisdom, kindness and generosity!! don let them fear you just because you are big.

Have a good day.

Qkool SG

and thank china to let singaporean face the same missiles as taiwanese... thank for the early national day present.

LazerLordz SG

No one is questioning your pride in being a citizen of your PRC.The main point here is that you should never ever tell others how to behave when they visit another country.The whole issue started because your shallow-minded government cannot swallow their pride and admit that Taiwan has been in every sense an independant nation, save for an official proclamation.Pull away those wool from your eyes and look at the reality in the Straits today.Does "face" mean so much to you that you are willing to call the bluff and forsake all the progress you guys have built up just so that you can assuage your measly pride?Only when you fellas answer this question,can there be peace in the straits.Why force a country to return when they refuse to?

Secondly, I resent the high-handed ways that the PRC chooses to treat others.Wake up, no one owes you 150 years of lost progress.IF your ancestors and mine chose to be incompetent centuries ago when dealing with progress,grow up and do not behave as iuf the whole world needs you.I've seen lotsa fellas behaving in a proud and arrogant manner, thinking that the world belongs to them.A "Middle Kingdom" mentality will be the cause of another downfall.The PRC must realise that the world works on give and take, and you cannot insist on something to be done your way.Then again, you may point out that the United States is a hegemonic power, often bullying others into submission.It may have its terrible conflicts and prone to warmongering, but we tolerate her because she has given us much in advancement for our societies, e.g Space technologies, the ideals of freedom and enfranchisement for each individual, the fostering of a society where one can experiment, etc. Only when China can be that much of a helping hand to the world , then perhaps there will be others out there who may tolerate slight temper tantrums.

sgdiehard SG

Responding to the comment :"The whole issue started because your shallow-minded government cannot swallow their pride and admit that Taiwan has been in every sense an independant nation, save for an official proclamation.Pull away those wool from your eyes and look at the reality in the Straits today."

We need to recognise the reality that no Chinese, from both sides of the Straits want two independent China!! In the early days, ROC was the only China and when PRC was recognised later as the letigimate Chinese government, Taiwan was reduced to a province. Taiwan has always been a province of China in Chinese history.

No Chinese leaders want to go down in history being responsible for the creation of two China, in this case, allowing an independent Taiwan.

The one who started this Taiwan independence was Lee Teng Hui, a politician who betrayed his party, a Chinese with a Japanese name, ready to run to Japan whenever there is problem in Taiwan. This whole issue about independence is a political game put up by the Taiwanese politicians to retain power. They resorted to many other methods that remain an international joke.

From the election result, at least 50% of those in Taiwan do not agree to independence!!! Too many Taiwanese are in China making a living.

The Taiwanese politicians today are asking the local Taiwanese aborigines to migrate to south america.... so who are the Taiwanese who want an independent Taiwan??

We should not judge the country politics with our own mind.

stupidissmart SG

I think it is a bit unfair to say it tat way. The real history is in the past, there is only KuoMinTang who is the central Gov of china. However there is a revolt from communist and both of them fought a bitter battle. At tat time communists is more popular thus manage to push KMT forces so much so they retreat to taiwan. The battle end as such and KMT remains in taiwan while communist take over central china.

Now we got to ask tis question, does taking over beijing or central china means tat KMT have to give up and surrender to communists ?

It is like a fake scenario where USA fight with china. US attack untill china retreated to tibet. So question now is, should Tibet be US or China then ? I am sure most rational guy will say it still belongs to China as it had not fallen to US yet. Isn't tat similar to situation of Taiwan ? KMT used to control china + taiwan. They lose the war and retreat to taiwan and the Communist party never complete the attack on taiwan too. So naturally shouldn't Taiwan by its own an independent nation by itself ?

nobody want to have 2 china ? Why don't china just let the taiwan people decide instead of giving them pressure about it ? If it really do means tat most taiwan people want to join back to china, then let them vote it themselves without any fear of reprisal from china. Maybe more than 50% of the people do not want independence, but I surely can say less people actually want to join back china too. most people just want to remain things the way they r.

The source of troubles is actually from Mao Tse tong... it is him who suggest tat taiwan must be taken back when he himself didn't do it... after which the following chinese gov can not do any backtrack but to follow on his orders...

BTW we have digress... just my individual thinking on the rights of sovereign in taiwan...

LazerLordz SG

Well said.The crux here is that Taiwan must be allowed to decide her own fate.If China wants to reunify, let it persuade and “sell” Taiwan the merits of such a deal.but peaceful reunification is impossible, just let the status quo remain. Letting Taiwan go her way might be more beneficial to China both economically and politically.Let not the legacy of ghosts pull China down and plunge the Straits into turmoil.Believe me, fighting a war with Taiwan will not make friends out of the Taiwanese.If the first shot is fired from China, the world has a duty to prevent this sort of naked bullying, not only the United States.

stupidissmart SG

Fighting should really be avoided if possible. Lets say US didn't turn up for the fight between taiwan and china. Although taiwan can not win china in military terms, I am pretty sure Taiwan can destroyed a few major China cities before he sinks. If US turns out more cities will be destroyed and more people will be killed. Do china people want to go back to the lives where people become poor and loves one killed. Don't underestimate the military capability of Taiwan... Frankly I believe they r on par with south korea of even better. And wat will happen to taiwan after the war ? It will probably becomes another iraq state of the east or it is just a flat burning ground where almost all the infrastructure is destroyed and their people dead. Tis time foreign investor will not come over anymore as they felt china is more unstable than they thinks. Who benefits ? Maybe the US or Europe... Who loses ? Chinese people...

Again I have digressed.... sorree.......

LazerLordz SG

Nah.You haven’t digressed.This is something the PRC must face up to.

robertteh SG

Let us balance everything nicely. Domestically support the citizens' aspirations and guide them into gelling with you together to thrive and succeed as one. Don't try to talk down on them or disregard their problems like high costs.

Externally, do not do another "high-profile" stand-off. We should be more helpful to all our neighbours including China instead of trying to lecture them on our achievements or perceived intellectualism. Quiet diplomacy needs EQ to work. Stay off China topic for a while. Let it cool and talk more naturally without all these tiffs.

baplov SG

To my opinion, the Chinese government should not be so narrow-minded. Since Singapore already has relationships with Taiwan and LHL already declared his trip to TW as unofficial, the Chinese government's actions towards Singapore is uncalled for.

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Speaking in the stand of the Chinese government, they may think that Singapore treats Taiwan as an independent nation. However, that is not true because Singapore respects China's One China Policy.
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Speaking in the stand of our Singapore government, we sincerely respect One China Policy and sees China and Taiwan as our friend too. Since we have military ties with Taiwan, whats wrong with LHL going to Taiwan ?
If Singapore doesn't respect China, LHL will have declared his trip to TW as Official.

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It is true that China is good for military tactics and have a potential huge market. The Chinese of China have also been upgrading themselves by studying English. Thats a good sign. However, they still can't change their own behaviour. They still show signs of a big bully in them. Recently, they displayed an unacceptable behaviour in the Asian Cup 2004 by booing at their official but with other countries' officials present, they shouldn't display such acts.

In the recent SARS attack, China covered up everything before Mr Jiang revealed everything. The Chinese government immediately detained him for telling the TRUTH ! If China have not covered the SARS incident, there will not be a wide spread infection across Asia and even Canada.

In their poor handling of Hongkong has also let to protests and demonstrations in the streets.

As for Taiwan, China should not force them so hard as to threaten to use military actions against them. Since the 50% of the Taiwanese have voted not to be independent, China should relent.

A warning to China will be that if China really starts a war against Taiwan, there is a possibility that it will be a war involving the world and the war will also ensure that their economies will go down. Twisted Evil

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Conclusion

I understand that China is too big and is difficult to manage every single provinces and cities perfectly. However, up till now, the fact is that the Chinese Government must learn to behave properly.

As our Chinese sayings say. " The Government Behaves Badly, the People will follow" Very Happy
Since our chinese sayings teach us to be a better person, but WHY aren't the Chinese in China follow the teachings and sayings ?

I certainly hope they will try to change for the better and learn to view all matters at a different angle and aspect as it will benefits everyone in the end. Laughing

SibeiSuayKia SG

Since when it was your toe? =) the 1949 stuff haven't ended lol..

Remember the Motto , anything you can't defend , you don't own =)

Yes definitely , you are proud to be a citizen of PRC ...of course i understand

But mister ,
In the 1st place , LHL has informed China about going to taiwan ,
that means we regard CHINA has the central authority over Taiwan , and its the same as informing china if we were to visit tibet, heilongjiang , xinjiang ,hubei or shanghai or beijing.
Of course we do accept 1 China policy .nobody wishes to see 2 splitted chinas..But anyway how have you all contributed to Taiwan's economical success and BTW , U might have a foot on OUR Asses,
but be careful , Uncle SAM is watching and uncle sam definitely has a large foot which is about 10 times ur size =D

US Has F-55 Variants which is designed to destroy spy satellites , a military craft 1st ever in space.

US has F-22 and YF-35 which is designed for ultimate air superiority over XXJ
(china's equivalent of F-22) and other SU-33 and SU-30.

Since 1949 , they have been running their own lives anyway , it is covered under NATO with members countries like UK,France,USA and Spain and Italy to block any communism influence over democratic hence the war over korea,vietnam and many places..

NATO in terms of total military size is about 8,000 fighter jets + about 20 combined aircraft carriers , anyway , the problem is , they still regard China as a "commie". So after reading the above paragraph , you would know what they would do even if pple try to force democratic into commies...

USA were fighting a war almost directly in korea and vietnam , each time challenging CN's forces + Soviet oso directly/indirectly.

Anyway , Singapore will never ever betray china ,
we sent money backed to China to fight WWII and got our PPLE punished
in our history textbooks cause the $$ sent back to china made them suffer considerable losses , we oso feel the pain in the rape of nanking and outrage against the JAPS.
sent SARS scanner and helped China fight SARS in terms of letting them know about quarentine
Suzhou's industrial park 10 years continuation of software technology
When suzhou has a rival industrial park and the business was losing out,
singapore did make noise and did singapore adopted DRASTIC actions
over SIP? no.
Singapore owns 60% of it that makes it the majority invester and we should be able to do , did u ever helped us..?

78% of foreign investments went to CHINA in 2003! enuf said.
Zero criticism of China , EVER .
Regarded China always as our "own pple" hua ren. =)

Glad you would view this post with objectivity.

Given the choice , i think we might not asked LHL to go TW.
But then again...TW has strong military ties with us
vs strong Economic ties with China..

KMT actually should be the legitimate govt over China..haiz
got overthrown by Communist..

From CN's point of view, its the same as quelling the so called
illegitimate govt aka rebel from the main house..only to have the illegitimate govt staying on the balcony now..
Thats why must use swat team to clear the balcony and take back the balcony

From TW's point of view, its the same thing as being overthrown
by pple whom is perceived as "hardcore" and "power hungry" "no freedom"in the main house and believe that it itself was being coup'e tat and had no choice but to go somewhere else to but to escape the balcony to avoid dying..

Luckily at the balcony ...there's someone called mr.sam who is constantly helping people challenge "hardcore"and "power hungry" and supports capitalist..

Anyway if KMT has succeeded in controlling CN now..i believe the communists would be on taiwan now..LOL...den the war might be some sorta different.

im still kinda upset over TianAnMen..how can chinese do it to chinese..

anyway a war in the straits would push China back to 1985?'s

Lonelyrooney SG

what worries me is how Chinese interpreted Lee Junior's visit. It is not as simple as some of us said -- China doest own Singapore. Fed upon the growing sense of nationalism, Chinese felt entitled to claim what they believed was lost to them more than a century back, and cheated if the rest of world did not readily acknowledge their title.

It is pointless to compare military strengths between China/US/Taiwan. Rationalis never goes hand-in-hand with nationalism. When its claim is answered with snub and Taiwan is being viewed increasingly as a link of chain put in place to contain it, well, Chinese will probably take to an more aggressive, albeit irrational, path. Remember it is a nuclear power.

History offered many precedences: America's invasions of Cuba and Mexico in late 1800s and early 1900s, and more notably, Germany's screaming of Encirclement in 1914.

I kindof wish Lee would have made a better representation to China before he embarked on the trip. No one actually benefits by adding fuel to the surging nationalism in China.

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