What So Big Deal About China

last SG · 2004-07-19T09:30:44+00:00

i think we singaporean should stop looking down on china. afterall we are chinese. it the china top foreign policy to uphold one china policy. let forget abo...

SibeiSuayKia SG

Military and politics are oso very closely intertwined..

cuz military is force and politics is also the control of force

Roquet SG

I am very glad to answer your questions, because you knew China stabilizing the RMB exchange rate at least. So you may also know the origin and the nature of the enconomy crisis in 1997-1998, maybe the "black hand behind the curtain". So you may understand why China insisted to stabilize RMB. So, HK is only one reason, frankly, PM Zhu and China took the responsibility as a member of Asia. That is why the soldier is a developing country not a developed country. However, as to the loss of China, it's better for you to find out the data by yourself. What I say may not be strong enough to convince you.

You dont need to express you understanding on the China past, whatever you do or not, believe me, China is not like you imaging now.

I dont question your feeling lucky, any country must own trade, army and water. But it is not easy to say that is a "help" or a "business".
Answer me: Did China ask any type, any piece of reward for her efforts during the crisis?

The missiles and taiwan, I suggest you recalling my questions in my previous post, after answering my questions, you dont need my expainations any more.

As to SARS, personal opinion, it is better for Singaporeans not to mention, especially to China. China has never intended to create any virus, and announced the unknown virus at first time. If there is any government or organization ignored or did not believe our government's announcement, then it is not what China can control. Like AIDS, the first case happened in US and now thousands of lives lost, but nobody condemned US. People always have some logic in their behaviour.
However, however, dont forget what your PM has done and said to China. You Look at the whole world, at that time, can you find the second country like Singapore to treat China in that way? If someone forgot, see below.

PM Goh is the first and only country leader who refused to visit to China, whiles PM of France and DM of India went to China in plan.
On May 2, PM Goh announced in public that China will spend 2 or 3 years to fight SARs and "do not put eggs in the same basket".
In fact, only half year, and more and more investments went into China. In fact, most of countries gave various aids to China including UK, Germany, Japan, Korea and even US. They knew that this is a battle between virus and human being.
But, but, where is our friend, Singapore? Not willing to support , that 's Ok, why attack?

I also invite all of you who want to make the thing clear to see the paper published in your Zaobao website. http://www.zaobao.com/yl/yl505_210704.html

I would like to say that the thing about your DPM is clear enough, the rest things are whether you can really understand, and what your government will behave.

Qkool SG

To Roquet,

there are lot of thing i want to say..but when i know China have sold missile and tranfer missiles tech to malaysia..i dont wish to discuss over any topic with any china man..

dont forget who chase out the chinese before singapore independent.
who help the chinese more than China did when Indonesia killing chinese not long ago.

so long to any hope to become any truth friend to chinaman or PRC .

maybe to you is fair... but thank for china let us face the same threat as taiwanese.

stupidissmart SG

You dont need to express you understanding on the China past, whatever you do or not, believe me, China is not like you imaging now.

Please elaborate

I dont question your feeling lucky, any country must own trade, army and water. But it is not easy to say that is a "help" or a "business".
Answer me: Did China ask any type, any piece of reward for her efforts during the crisis?

I don't understand

As to SARS, personal opinion, it is better for Singaporeans not to mention, especially to China. China has never intended to create any virus, and announced the unknown virus at first time. If there is any government or organization ignored or did not believe our government's announcement, then it is not what China can control. Like AIDS, the first case happened in US and now thousands of lives lost, but nobody condemned US. People always have some logic in their behaviour.

okie

However, however, dont forget what your PM has done and said to China. You Look at the whole world, at that time, can you find the second country like Singapore to treat China in that way? If someone forgot, see below.

Wat has PM done and said to China ? BTW, I find the below report biase and very inaccurate.. even the proposed motives for his visit seems to be ridiculous... Frankly do u think LHL is dumb... he is certain to be PM, why purposely create trouble for himself to become "famous" ? Frankly does tis argument hold any water ? It is like putting sh!t on my face before receiving a prize in a prize giving ceremony. Do people do tat ? Also he falsely accuse singapore of supporting taiwan independence... do we do tat ? I think the report is really off the point

I find the explanation from LHL more convincing and believable... please be objective... Even in singapore news there r hardly any report of his visit to taiwan... it is deliberately meant for it to be low key. If he want to be famous, surely he will do much publicity first isn't it ? When he is caught he say tat it is an unofficial visit. If he want to be famous surely he will acknowledge he is on an official visit ?

PM Goh is the first and only country leader who refused to visit to China, whiles PM of France and DM of India went to China in plan.
On May 2, PM Goh announced in public that China will spend 2 or 3 years to fight SARs and "do not put eggs in the same basket".
In fact, only half year, and more and more investments went into China. In fact, most of countries gave various aids to China including UK, Germany, Japan, Korea and even US. They knew that this is a battle between virus and human being.
But, but, where is our friend, Singapore? Not willing to support , that 's Ok, why attack?

Frankly, I never seems to have heard tis comment from PM goh before. Can u offer me some objective info to read ? Something seems to be funny... I thought Wen jia Bao and Goh Chok Tong is at the ASEAN summit on SARS on 30 April ?

http://www.sars.gov.sg/archive/Asean%20Leaders%20Hammer%20Out%20Sars%20battle%20Plan%20(BT).html

http://www.sars.gov.sg/archive/S'pore's%20Hot%20Anti-Sars%20Export%20-%20Thermal%20Scanners%20(ST).html

Singapore even lent the thermo scanner to HK, surely HK is part of china in 2003 isn't it ?

We r allies on the fight against SARs. Why suddenly turn your back on us when LHL just go to taiwan to discuss issues, issues not related to china...

If u talk about attack, I can only see china banning visa for singapore. It appears to be a tit for tat action because malaysia banned the visa for china, which does not have anything to do with singapore again. In fact china banned visa to singapore for more than 5 weeks. At the meantime singapore do nto do any imposition for people who want to come over here, whoever they r.

http://www.sars.gov.sg/archive/Beijing%20To%20Lift%20S'pore%20Travel%20Ban%20Soon%20(BT).html

When it comes to SARs, singapore is hit pretty bad either. Why should we donate to china when we ourselves r dying from it ? It is like people who had kidney failure donating to NKF ? Singapore did not contribute any money and instead is planning to work with Japan to give practical help to affected countries, isn't tat good enough ? R we forced to give money out ?

http://www.sars.gov.sg/archive/Singapore%20Offers%20China%20Help%20And%20Equipment%20To%20Fight%20Sars%20(ST).html

We do help by providing equipment and help at tat date isn't it ?

I also invite all of you who want to make the thing clear to see the paper published in your Zaobao website. http://www.zaobao.com/yl/yl505_210704.html

I would like to say that the thing about your DPM is clear enough, the rest things are whether you can really understand, and what your government will behave.

My comments on your report is given above. Please ponder on it...

kenken SG

1) I am a PRC and I am also a PR of Sinagpore. I stay here for about 10 years for study and work. I love china and like singapore, too. I have some very close sinapore friends though not many;

2) I am a bit sad about the current situation. It shouldn't develop like this.

3) I don't want to judge who is more right and who is more wrong and I just want to share with you what I understand from both sides

4) The DPM visit to Taiwan is not as worse as China government think and it is also not as simple as most Singaporeans think.

5) To most of general singaporeans, they are quite kind and straitforword and they don't like politics. However, it is very different for those "best of best" in the government bodies.

To the general singaporeans, they think it is not a big deal and china over-reacts. it is just a "personal visit". However, it is not true. If you don't believe it, you shouldn't come to this forum.

When they heard the missile news, they feel that they are betrayed by the friend and the friend sell weapon to their FOE. They get hurt very very badly.

As for china, we feel that USA and Japan are trying all the means to help taiwan independent and stop china become strong. there will be a militory exercise for Taiwan and USA in August. At this sensitive moment, the DPM visited Taiwan. To us, you send a wrong signal to Chen Shui Bian and you regonize them and you are standing the same line with them to prevend china taking back Taiwan. It will encourage other country to do the same things. It hurts us just like you hear that china prepare sell missile to Malasia.

Are you able to understand it already? To us, Taiwan is the most sensitive part in our heart. You CANNOT stimulate it since you don't know what is going to happen and it will out of control. China goverment will just fight back without thinking wisely.

As for us, we don't mind to pay ANYTHING to unite Taiwan back even to fight with the whole world. Taiwan is just like the symbol for the past 100 years sad history to china. We just can't forget it.

6) As for myself, I strongly against that Chian sells missile to Malasia and let them threaton other chinese. Just think those chinese in Indonesia. We can solve the problem through other ways.

7) Both parties need to be cool down and talk faithfully. Forget about the "FACE". Otherwise,

the winning party: Taiwan, Malasia, USA, Japan
the loser party: China, Singapore

Is this the result we want or not?

We can be good friends and partners if we have the willing and respecting each other. We can solve the problem together and stop pointing the finger each other.

jimmyX SG

it is a lot fun to read your post i have to say.

1. "you should never ever tell others how to behave."
what's the problem? As long as your behavior affects someone else, there will be someone telling you how to behave. I even heard somewhere in the world people use a whip to tell.
You do not put your big nose into other's muffin then say"you should never tell me how to behave" and expect nothing bad will happen, do you?
2. "Secondly, I resent the high-handed ways that the PRC chooses to treat others. blah blah blah"
you pointed your finger at china's behavior but said the others should not do that to SG? I am curious why you are so special.

Qkool SG

kenken,nice to hear from ur side.

anyway i know my posting is abit too much but still have long way to learn from your china military bbs (forum)

I know how china mind about taiwan , but no matter how...i hate PRC giving before 2020 recover taiwan with military..

Do you know how serious if China military recover Taiwan ? Just hope China keep trying for peaceful way to due with Taiwan(which i don't really see ).

and do u think LHL and singapore will support Taiwan's independent?

oldbreadstinks SG

read though BBS, found most of the posts there really aggressive and militaristic. , its like if these people have control over china , tml would be war for taiwan

and as for peaceful wars to recover taiwan , Laughing one thing i've observed , of all the times china's recovered taiwan thoughout history, none of them were peacefull
think this would be a first?

as for whether LHL and singapore will support Taiwan's independence
you'll have to ask first, LHL and what singapore?you almost sounded like we have a choice in the direction of our country Laughing

Qkool SG

they have to answer to me everyday...

oldbreadstinks SG

like the way the gst went up?

Qkool SG

yes, and the money you reclaim $500 lah, $400 lah,$800 lah all from my personal pocket.

PAP is all under me one..(starting to cock now already)

Mr. Green

sbs1zc SG

The problem is not on PRC side now! DPP is gona change the constitution of ROC in 2006 and put it into practice in 2008, it is obviours a way of declaration for independence, ces' in the constitution of ROC, it is written clearly that the definition of Republic of "China" includes the places which togather the PRC and Taiwan island!

PRC can not just wait and see Taiwan going actual independence without taking any action! It will bring PRC huge political and social consequences! So it better now to prepare for the war!

American neocons dunt want to see a strong China in the future, so it is gona use the Taiwan as a war break our point to stop China's development, which is a bastard behaviour!

go_china SG

I didn't expect my very first post would generate so many responses. I'll try my best to read them all if I can find the time.

However, I do want make my points clear. This is a real world, and real word speaks power politics. Chinese national interest/security would not allow Taiwan province to go independent nor forming military alliance with any foreign power AT ANY COST. Just look at US and Cuba, you might understand how serious Taiwan is to China.

Singapore is in a pretty tough environment, but poking a waking giant in the wrong spot at the wrong time, is definitely not adding any security to your city state.

loudmonkey SG

I really appreciate kenken's views.

I found this from the Chinese foreign ministry website.

http://www.fmprc.gov.cn/chn/xwfw/fyrth/t143616.htm

If you can read chinese, there is a style in the way that these statements are drafted.

For one, i remember that in the very first statement, that the feelings of the 1.3 billion chinese people are hurt by the visit.

now, the foreign describe that in the visit, their "core interest" had been violated.

It always seems to me that the words are carefully chosen to maximise their impact, which appeals to very nationalistic feelings. I personally would have found it very difficult to appreciate what "core interest" mean, though I think it means that Taiwan must be isolated from contacts with other nations. In that aspect, LHL did do the Chinese a disfavour.

One must also ask if the visit by LHL was absoloutely necessary? If so, what about the timing? And is it necessary for such a high level official to go? Would not someone more junior in rank have sufficed?

LHL made a calculated move to visit Taiwan, knowing full well China will not be pleased with the visit. And it is true that it backfired. Singapore suffers the brunt of the consequences, not China. But how badly has it backfired? Not too much I feel. The cost of the consequences do not seem to be too big, that is for sure, only high level visits have been cancelled. So it should not have too big of an impact.

loudmonkey SG

It is interesting to note, MFA has said that if Singapore were to accept China's request not to go to Taiwan, it would have affected Singapore's international standing as an independent sovereign nation. That I totally agree. But the point of threading on someone's toes is also valid. LHL was received by the highest level officials, befitting a head of state visit. It is an unofficial visit, says the singapore government, but is the substance of the visit unofficial? I think the Singapore govt wanted it to be, but the taiwanese did not want it to be. If unofficial and private, then there should have been absoulutely a media blackout on the visit. The singapore press did not report, which is the right thing to do, but the taiwanese press did. How should the taiwanese press know about Lee's visit? Your guess is as good as mine. It is no wonder that Lee has inadvertably been used by the Taiwanese to promote independence, by giving his visit blatant media coverage. Chen Shui Bian gave his visit the same kind of treatment that any foreign dignitary to taiwan would receive - which is bound to infurate China. Lee has said he did not speak to the Taiwanese media. So the stories about Teo Chee Hean visiting with LHL must have been made up by the Taiwanese then. My point - China is simply upset that Lee's visit had given a boost to independence advocators, of which LHL had absoloutely no control of. LHL's visit has only given Taiwan an advantage. In fact, LHL played right into Taiwan's game, and the Taiwanese made full use of it. China, I guess, had very good reasons not to have LHL go to Taiwan. It is then no wonder, that the "core interest" has been violated.

So my question is, what could have been the reason that made the visit absoloutely unaviodable (to the extent that China says "Why must China's sovereignty and core interests be harmed as a price to support Singapore's rights and international standing?", read the chinese foreign ministry statement for its exact phrasing)? Lee's explaination that he is there to understand the situation in Taiwan seems to me to brush only the surface of a deeper cavity. His answer is too vague. It is no wonder the Chinese did not accept his explanation. So i guess, LHL must be there to settle some other critical issues, which could not have been revealed.

I suppose if there was a media blackout, then China would probably not have made too much noise, since the Chinese was notified beforehand that LHL was going. But the taiwanese media made reports a few days into the visit, so I suppose China had no choice but to announce her displeasure, otherwise, China would be seen to be condoning the visit, which is the last thing she would want.

In any case, I believe Singapore should and would have made calculations into the kind of impact that would affect Singapore should China reveal its displeasure. I guess we should be lucky that the impact has not been too harsh, like what I mentioned above.

It is my opinion that the Taiwanese have a motive in having media coverage of LHL's visit. But LHL should not be exonerated from responsibility I feel. He could have requested the Taiwanese side that his visit should receive total media blackout. Of course, that would benefit Singapore, but not Taiwan. In any case, does the Taiwanese government have any control over the media? If LHL had known that the taiwanese government could not control the media, then the singapore government should have prepared to do some damage control , so that it would not further erode the relationships between the Taiwan and China.

Qkool SG

come on lah... dont speak in this form.. i thought all china man in bbs thought singapore is begging china for a living.

whatever.. what i can tell you is, go back to china bbs and leave us a clean room. i dont post anything on the china bbs.

tell you the truth, if the china bbs keep running in this form, no matter how china govt have do..meaningless...
how many jap/taiwanese/korean/singapore know how china people thinking.
and i tell you ,mainly what you'll have know not really the real fact.

the.raven SG

dunno bout that I only know artemis is a chio bu

jkjk

the.raven SG

Originally posted by SibeiSuayKia:

eh..i was stumped man..i thought F-22 is invincible..

wahhh...wonder if they are really good anot...[/b]

whoa what did u see on that page that suddenly changed your life?!?! Laughing

blahblahblah F-22 blahblahblah

in terms of many things, F-22 not even as good as F-15 I think, it's just stealth and stuff.

go_china SG

If most Singaporean people are as ignorant and inner-looking as you, then I probably wouldn't have wasted my time posting here. But my experiences tell me they are not.

sbs1zc SG

Whatever you saw in China's BBS can not be applied to all Chinese! It is like what we saw here can not be applied to all Singaporean! Of course, there are many good people and bad people in any country, not only in China but also in Singapore.

China currently is a developing country, we defined us as a third world country. In this country, 1.3bn people are living togather, many of them are farmers, low paid workers, or even beggers. Millions of them especially senior citizens did not recieve proper education which most Singaporean did. So, it is not surprise to see those hostile views generated from them. After all, China still has long way to go to rise its citizens' education to a level that comparable to those of Singaporeans'.

As far as I know, most of rational Chinese citizens generally hold a friendly view on Singapore. They wish Singapore to be their friend not enemy!

« Previous Page Next Page »