DIPLOMA USELESS IN SINGAPORE

FireIce SG

yup.....experience and contacts bring u further than ur cert.....

the cert determines ur starting pay.....after tt is ur work performance and ur ability to prove ur worth.....
no harm to work first and at the same time, keep a lookout for better opportunities and greener fields

most ppl kena one setback then they lost the will and motivation and start putting the blame on this and that......

the first step is always difficult....but everyone mus go thru this phrase.....some ppl are jus a little luckier......

huang tian bu fu ku xin ren......
hang hang chu zhuang yuan

jus have to be more positive and look on the bright side and do ur best.....and perhaps adjust ur expectations (material-wise) and complain less...........

thinker SG

By employing someone with a degree cert. over a diploma holder for a simple job like 1st level IT helpdesk shows how shallow employers/HR are. It might also be due to the fact that the HR do not understand the requirements of the job, thinking that degree holders are suited for the job. It is a great mismatch.
I have work in helpdesk b4. Even 'O' levels with experience or IT certs (e.g. MCSE, CCNA, etc) can be employed to do this simple job.

thinker SG

Duplicated

thinker SG

Duplicated

thinker SG

I wouldn't refuse your opinion if u insist on your great paper qualification. Take note that what I have stated refers to job that can be done by both dip/deg holders. Pls dun take master/PHD into it. That is another topic and it doesn't make sense to compare with them.

Furthering your education is another topic. Its good to further your education to gain in-depth knowledge to help you understand better in your career. I dun believe in furthering your education for the sake of getting the 'paper' only. In the end, its still your capability/character/interest/accumulated skills and knowledge that will let you advance in your career.

Given a choice as a non-degree holders, I wouldn't establish my career in a MNC. MNC judge your capability by your paper qualification. This is having great impact not only to the dip/ITE, even some degree holders felt demoralised/stagnant by it.

You mentioned about a fren of yours who is "indeed brilliant and capable" and is "Earning about USD S$200K a year in german". Great, I am glad that there are talented Singaporean. Note that my opinion is based on general/average ppl and jobs that can be done by both dip/deg holders. Dun take the cream of the lot to compare.

thinker SG

TrU PeAce (^0*)v SG

First of all...which sentence did i compare a diploma wif a master or phd Confused . I just made a statement, not a topic; that a degree is a foundation for education to proceed to master and phd. Pls read properly. I didnt go further to elaborate on it AND the MAIN, MAIN reason i wrote that reply was the statement u made; ur scorning statement that companies prefer to hire diploma than degree holders becoz they are more creative and synergy Mad . Previously i did mention something about my fren, u said i shdnt compare wif the cream. But do u know what u wrote in ur statment?? Ur statement seems to over shadow the "cream" too!! Diploma are more creative and synergy than degree holders!!, so does that mean the whole flock of them? some? mostly? majority? , therefore i assume wat u said was the whole flock of them, am i right? The grass is green. By this statement, all grass shd be green right?? Know my topic sentence, and read my conlcusion. I just want u to realize what u state was extremely wrong. In which statement i mention that CERT is the only important yard stick? i didnt, i still state that personality of an individual must be taken into account. Therefore for your statment " n the end, its still your capability/character/interest/accumulated skills and knowledge that will let you advance in your career" i agree wif u. I just disagree of wat u said previously. Dun misunderstood me. Spore economic had led us both, diploma and degree holders into a difficult situation... survival skill is therefore much needed.

stupidissmart SG

Just to be on the fair side... if I was an employer and with the same amount of money I can hire a diploma or degree holder to a simple job, I will go for the degree holder. Why ? Studying is like a race in a competitive environment as well. U need determination, preserverance, discipline, intellect, good command of language, dedication, positive attitute to achieve well. Diploma also meant studying well... but it is just tat getting a degree seems harder to achieve thus it speaks out more.

The paper do not say u will be better than a diploma holder but at least it shows u have some minimum competence in handling normal tasks. Tat is why in the beginning where no one has work experience, the paper u have is the only thing tat shows your competency in handling the job... When u have work experience then it will be a better guage of your ability.

Joshua1975 SG

Hmmm.... maybe but the local company are doing that as well. Judge you by paper oso. Given a choice, go MNC, no paper but can perform, no worry. MNC will pay you accoordingly. Face it they dun have the family empire type kind of thing like the local coy, if you can not perform you go.

Sir_Horny SG

if u r the employer, then i guess u r not a very smart 1....u go for some1 who is able to perform the job not the cert....if u wanna tok about degree, every1 can easily go to any foreign ivy league uni to get a degree if thats wat u r looking for.....i've seen ppl who can't even get thru college....yet able to obtain a degree in a foreign u.

Joshua1975 SG

Hazi....... related field I got no say, how many are?
problem with locals boss, keep on eat up own local ppl, market rate, market rate, no one work for him, where is the market? pay ppl accordingly mah. pay peanuts and you get Monkey. follow the garment pay high high, Mr. Green

stupidissmart SG

How do u know who is able to perform the job or not ? Is it written on their face ? When I talk about degree I mean reputable degree for reputable University lah... U can even buy degree from lousy university if u want...

Sir_Horny SG

simple......u can roughly know the person thru interview or u can give him a simple characteristic test.

deakin university is no doubt a very good uni....but its just easier to get thru compare to our local uni.....u can imagine a below average student getting a degree

Xenthar SG

Hi to everyone Very Happy This topic seems to be sliding into an argument between degree and diploma holders. Actually the point is the comanies should stick to the appropriate people for appropriate jobs. If they continue doing things this way, it is very dangerous to EVERYONE in the long run. I am sure all of you have heard about degree and even mba owners sweeping floors and being salesmen and bookshop assistant in other countries rite? I sincerely do not wish to see that in Singapore. It would also mean that all the GCE O,A and ITE level people would then have to be reduced to virtual beggars. This is a very dangerous trend to continue with.
I also notice that someone stated that degree people shows that they are capable if they can get the paper. I agree with that to a certain extent. But the person has distorted my main point again. The statement I was trying to make is that not everyone can afford (like some people I used to know who drives parents car and have BIG amounts of pocket moeny) to study full time for a degree. I am sure that there are also many other in my position who was or is considering dropping the idea of getting a degree first to get a job to SURVIVE first.

stupidissmart SG

simple......u can roughly know the person thru interview or u can give him a simple characteristic test.

How useful is an interview ? People will be complaining tat it is unfair to people who tend to be nervous easily isn't it ? Can 10 minutes of interview know about a person well or know if he act well ? How accurate is a characteristic test ? Most people just give the answer which they expect to mean well rather than an honest reply.

deakin university is no doubt a very good uni....but its just easier to get thru compare to our local uni.....u can imagine a below average student getting a degree

Actually I never heard of deakin university....

In singapore, unless u r really needy of money, u should be able to get into university if your grades make it. There are a lot of loans and bursaries around to tide the people through the time for studying.

TrU PeAce (^0*)v SG

Reputable uni ...hmm...hope this webpage will help . This is just for the asia region... Hmm...spore not bad huh...shd be proud. But of coz in the world, MIT, Harvard, Cambridge rulez....

http://www.asiaweek.com/asiaweek/features/universities2000/schools/multi.overall.html

Deakin University...i believe it is from aus izit...

Mr. Green

Gregorsamsa SG

lets look at it in this perspective by placing a few assumptions.

1. all employers are looking for fresh grads (ite/poly/uni)
2.based on proportion, there are lesser people going to uni poly ite, in that order
3.Employers are maximising their hiring costs
4. when interviewing the prospective employee, there is nothing to diffeentiate except for their education qualification

So why wouldnt you hire a uni grad?

There are always exceptions and we should never use exceptions because they happen on a low frequency

MBAs cannot be compared to PHds
even so yo have to see what MBAs or PHDs is it confeered by and what discipline is it in.
To generalised, as long as you have money to pay for an MBA
because alot of them its dependent on working knowledge, and management/BA cannot be theorized nor quantified so its very grey plus offering MBA is good Money (The Economist 2004 June)

On another note.

Although i have yet to work, i do know that good work experience(or rather a good CV) helps, and doing well for the interview helps too.

Joshua1975 SG

when you reach my age you will know academic paper is of no use when you got no much experience.

Xprobe SG

If you realise for a fact that both demand & supply is a paper chase oriented environment, you should think global my friend. Singapore is REALLY a small market. Go West, Go East young man...bite the bullet and stop trying so hard to be just a bolt or screw of the system.

Xprobe SG

My fellow sporeans, please go and read a new book called, MANAGERS, NOT MBAs.

It is about time this conventional rule is challenged and rendered irrelevant in todays economy.

I am a "Pass w/o merit" person. Today, I have a lot of MBAs working for me, and I can tell you they does not measure up to my expectations. Really Dok Si Pin. (Study Shit Piece).

Lots of so call strategist, but no one can implement. Everytime in the meeting I have to challenge them to put their money where their mouth is. Sad case.

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