unscrupulous bosses

rudyiskandar SG

Mr Y.K. Tan, managing director of Kenyon Engineering, said he hired a fresh engineering graduate as a 'worker' last year. His responsibilities? To pull cables on site projects on a starting pay of $900 a month.

But after five months of doing menial work and proving his worth, the employee has now been promoted to engineer.

His pay has also jumped to $2,100 a month.

As fresh graduates lack the working experience, Mr Tan said that it is best if they are trained at lower wages, and see if they are up to the job.

He received applications from some fresh graduates who are asking for $2,400 to $2,600 as monthly starting pay.

'These go straight into the wastepaper basket,' he said, as it is not realistic.

He pointed out that since the Asian financial crisis in 1998, pay packets are 30 per cent lower now - following the constricting job market for graduates.

I read with amusement especially the opinion stated by this YK Tan from Kenyon Engr. No doubt, in time of economic crisis, company not doing well would resort to cutting the starting pay of fresh grad. But hey, if you were to visit this kenyon website, they are actually boasting of increased revenue as well as profit?

What does this shows? Unscrupulous bosses/companies that tries to take advantage of this crisis and get some cheap labour.

Parka SG

Yah. At least they should back pay the dude. Mad

dumbdumb! SG

hah... itp also the same. they pay u like $500, and ask u do the same job as a fully paid adult. but hey... life is like that la huh... my uncle tell me not to set my expectation too high. said we becoming spoilt. Neutral

Parka SG

Spoilt? At least must pay us what is deserved.

Atobe SG

One's worth cannot be determined by looking at a piece of paper certificate.

One's worth to an Enterprise is determined by the 'bottom line' profit and loss that is incurred by one's employment.

If you are worth what your paper certificate shows, then prove your mettle to the boss, and he will not want to lose you when he realise that he has a gem in his grasp.

Name your price then.... but do not forget, there are others waiting for the same opportunity given to you, and just as willing to prove their ability to the boss.

It is simple economics of 'Supply and Demand'.

rudyiskandar SG

of course! I fully agree that one have to prove his worth and that the cert is nothing more than a piece of paper. but hey, can one worth be proven by pulling cables? for months?

If that manager Tan is trying to prove that the poor guy can take hardship, he should note that the guy probably spend 2.5 years of his life either as a lowly army clerk or in a combat unit. So my question is how is those 6 months of pulling cables going to prove his capability?

Even if he thinks that pulling cable is a test of a person patience, he should have backpay the poor bloke for those 6 months.

Finally, why did'nt he implement such a scheme way back then when the economy is good?

It's crystal clear that these people are very unscrupulous and to think that he even dare to talk about it in the papers.

Now we all know that Kenyon Engineering is a really pathetic company to work in. Laughing

sgboy2004 SG

it is a free world. If u dun like the way, then dun join the firm

Demand and supply problem again.

In fact, in the business world, unscrupulous is the name of the game, though it is not encouraged in entrepreunership courses, but in real life, u hav to be shrewd to survive.

dumbdumb! SG

ah... be as wise as a serpent and as harmless as a dove eh? Rolling Eyes

rudyiskandar SG

The management at Kenyon are'nt being shrewed...they are simply being dumb. The way a company treats its employees tells alot about where it's heading.

It's like they are advertising to the world what a low down and cheap company it is. Of course any one with brain would know that it's a supply and demand thing....there will always be suckers who gets sucked in!

Atobe SG

Certainly if one think that pulling wire or cable is beyond the dignity of a halo-ed certificate, then one need not even consider to be employed for even a single day.

However, if one is to be employed as an Engineer in an Electrical Cabling Company, then it is important for a young inexperienced graduate to learn the entire business from the ground up.

There have been many instances where a young Engineer botched up a Company's reputation, when thrown into a responsible position fresh from graduation.

Filled with theoretical confidence, he ended up with the inability to face actual real life problems and "work relationship" matters on the job, only to cause losses to the company.

"Pulling wire or cables" is similar to a "fresh" Doctor serving an internship, learning the "ropes" of his trade, and such internship can last over a year or two.

One can also link to the SAF requirement of how Officers are groomed, from recruit to the senior ranks.

However, it will be scary if some reach Brigadier General rank due to political or scholarly connections, instead of real military merit, and with the promotion processes being speeded through to achieve some obscure agenda.

Scary thought, in that military campaigns will be planned by such inexperienced Generals, who do not realise the difficulties and dangers in capturing an enemy occupied objective, and have no idea as to the cost in human lives.

If one is dissatisfied with the work environment, one can always quit, especially in a civilian work environment.

If one cannot take the heat, one can always get out of the kitchen.

Venus SG

Mr & Mrs See from The Scent Shop Pte Ltd oso e same!
When they reprimand their staffs, they would scold their father, mother, grandmother, etc...Doing OT for them oso no OT pay!

give u a month's salary, but treat u like a Mariah!
and in their shop, the burners they sell r from china(it is stated on the burner) but they claim tat they r from European countries!

Some products had been place over the expiry date but they still sell it to us! its disgusting!

the price in the shop is priced anyhow... not to the market rate!

they like they increase the price! not onli the staff complains them!
even the customers oso complains about The Scent Shop management! Evil or Very Mad Mad

Venus SG

CX SG

sigh... give and take lah... what i think is, they could have made it all a bit more politically correct...

its true that fresh grads do not deserve fat paychecks without first proving their worth. but its also true that a grad should not be unfairly treated just cos the company wants to prove a point or cut cost.

not that pulling cable is below the dignity of a grad... to me, there is only one factor: subsistence. if u're hungry, then u're in no position to talk terms. the economy is NOT good now... if u refuse to work, u starve. others are more than happy to take your place.

what the company could have done that is more in accordance to corporate norms, is to offer the poor guy a "trainee" position and put him on probation for a few (6?) months.

he could STILL be pulling cables and drawing a similar pay, but let there be a frank understanding between employer and employee that he could either be confirmed into a permanent position based on his performance or terminated at the end of the probation period if he does not measure up.

its only fair to state the terms of employment and advancement to a new employee. besides, its such a waste to employ an engineer to pull cables when he could possibly contribute so much more to the company. much cheaper to employ a bangla too... the company being plain extra lah...

wait till the economy recovers then they know... face staff shortage, intense competition to hire employees and bigger companies offering better pay packages then them, then they'll be in trouble if they do not treat their employees properly...

what goes around, comes around...

Atobe SG

Word of Advise and Caution.

Do not mention specific names in controversial issues such as what you have brought up in this Public Forum.

You are exposed to libel of the private individuals concerned and also to the good name of the business mentioned.

It is best that you [color=red]edit your posting and delete those names immediately[/color].

BillyBong SG

If i'm not wrong a doctor's internship is part of the cycle they face upon successful graduation. This is expected of them as part the bond rather than bucketloads of shit they have to face at a meagre allowance.

The grads are fully aware of this aspect in doctoring and accept it as well. After all, if they change their minds they can always break their bond.

While i dun entirely agree that an engineer grad shd literally state his pay demands on his job application, i dun expect him to be treated like cheap labour or another IA student. A monthly income of S$900 would (IMO) surely be way too low for a student who was handpicked and interviewed numerous times to get the job mentioned. Even a IA student at exxonmobil gets S$1100...

It's not abt the name of the company. That shd be well safeguarded during the multiple interviews the grad probably had to go thru b4 landing the S$900 job. After all they must have surely picked the finest grad from the "elite" number just lining up for the job. That effectively ensures their money is well spent on their latest investment.

BillyBong SG

~As fresh graduates lack the working experience, Mr Tan said that it is best if they are trained at lower wages, and see if they are up to the job. ~

This is rather disgusting from my point of view.

In the working world an employer shd not hire a potential employee to see if he's "cut out" for this kind of work.

Why hire them in the first place then?

It is in the interview where the person's character will raise eyebrows...whether for gd or bad.

If the employer selects an employee without knowing his true potential and merely wants to "try" him out, then perhaps it is the employer who shd seek a new job, since it's obvious he's failed in his task?

Atobe SG

I am not so sure if I understand your term "bond" correctly, but what if the student doctor is not sponsored by any scholarship, will there be such a bond required ?

Is the "internship" before or after graduation as a doctor ?

Unfortunately, unlike the profession of doctors, lawyers, and architects, there is no requirement of serving a period of internship after getting the first certified qualification as an Engineer.

The pay package is dependent on whether the Company would actually provide you a period of training, or if they expect the new employee to learn while on the job.

In both instances, some Companies will believe that the training given will be value added to the new employee's basic knowledge and should carry a monetary value taken from a reduced pay package during the probation period.

This is quite normal, as there are some new employees who are known to quit mid-way through the training.

However, I would not compare the salary of a multi-national company such as Exxon-Mobil to that of some local companies.

Exxon-Mobil is in a trade that is almost monopolistic, and revenue is generated no matter the economic condition of the world.

It is not to sound defensive on behalf of employers, but having seen some high turnover of staff in different industries, and at different levels of organisation, one can appreciate the frustrations of employing workers who move on in a short period of less then a year, just to fill in time - until a more suitable job is found.

It is sometimes very difficult to judge a person's character from first observation of the person's appearance and mannerism.

An employer is hardly a specialist in psycho-analytical field, and in a harsh economic environment, his first consideration is to the continued survivability of his enterprise.

Atobe SG

CX SG

its called 'housemanship' and entry into the medical faculty IS by itself a BOND...

Unfortunately, unlike the profession of doctors, lawyers, and architects, there is no requirement of serving a period of internship after getting the first certified qualification as an Engineer.

don't anyhow say lah! lawyers have to go through a pupilage and pass their bar exam... they can't practice straight after graduation u know! and architects take 6 years to complete their course! part of which, if i'm not wrong, is an industrial attachment.

engineering is more shady... u gotta ask an engineering grad how exactly their professional accredition is acquired. but they spend part of their course in industrial attachment too. so they're not totally ignorant about the real world when they graduate.

what they will need acquaintance with however, is the corporate culture of that particular company.

well u get all sorts of exceptions too lah... there are many scumbag companies nowadays who won't increase the pay after probation...

However, I would not compare the salary of a multi-national company such as Exxon-Mobil to that of some local companies.

Exxon-Mobil is in a trade that is almost monopolistic, and revenue is generated no matter the economic condition of the world.

don't generalise... the petroleum industry is oligopolistic, not monopolistic... besides, petro-chem professionals have always commanded a very lucrative payscale because of the knowledge and experience required, the unpleasant work enviornment and the hazards involved.

and being a local company does not entitle u to treat your workers like crap or exploit them... mind u, some smaller companies are actually immensely profitable because being small reduces their overheads substantially and in certain sectors, they enjoy rather healthy margins... no reason not to pay your employees what they deserve because it is THEM who helped u make the money in the first place.

welcome to the new economy. look... if the employer is entitled to chop his staff when his bottom-line is affected, why isn't a staff entitled to chop his employer if his bottom line is similarly affected?

now, i do not condone frivolous job hopping of course, but since companies no longer promise lifetime employment, why should employees practice such mis-placed loyalty? its only sensible to move on to greener pasteurs if a better offer has been made elsewhere... if the employer values u, he'll re-negotiate his offer and match the payscale to make u stay. else, he'll just let u leave if u are not under any contractual obligations.

It is sometimes very difficult to judge a person's character from first observation of the person's appearance and mannerism.

An employer is hardly a specialist in psycho-analytical field, and in a harsh economic environment, his first consideration is to the continued survivability of his enterprise.

sadly, thats usually how its done Mr. Green like i said... i find it quite unfair to the grad to be employed to pull cable because the boss was probably exploiting his good nature and desperation and being plain extra.

u wanna test the guy, tell him u're hiring him on probation to test him. it won't make a difference. if he doesn't measure up, he'll eventually screw up when u turn up the heat on him... the boss was just fulfilling his ego lah...

this type of lan jiao towkay tell him f-spider eat turd lah... economy good no one will work for him one. Twisted Evil

Atobe SG

On entry into the medical faculty IS by itself a BOND? (Posted by CX)

Are you saying that for an undergraduate on entering the Medical Faculty, there will be an automatic Bond - as if though a scholarship has been awarded?

This is new info.

Please read my paragraph, which states that unlike doctors, lawyers, and architects, there is no requirement of serving a period of internship after getting the first certified qualification AS AN ENGINEER.

The industrial attachment of an undergraduate Engineer is too short a duration, and cannot be compared to the duration experienced by a lawyer going through pupilage before a bar exam, and doctors having to serve an internship and the student architect being subject to a long course that would include long term practical attachment to an architectural firm.

For an Engineer, it is not only learning the corporate culture of his place of employment after graduation, but also learning the entire business from scratch.

Many engineers that I have met, confirmed that only about TEN Percent of their tertiary training would ever be recalled for practical application.

Much depends on learning the product or processes on-the-job; and using ones own I.Q., initiative, mature observation, and pure logical thought process.

Pay increment may not always happen upon confirmation after a probationary period.

This is a misconception on the part of many new employees.

Unless otherwise stated in a Letter of Probationary Appointment, the Employer may not necessarily have to increase the probationary pay on confirmation.

Another point of misconception is that all workers are entitled to Fourteen Days annual leave, and Twenty-One Days upon completion of ten year service. There is no such labor law in Singapore, which only confirm that an employee is entitled to seven working days of leave annually, with full pay.

On the point of Petroleum Companies, not all workers are highly technically qualified to qualify for the high salary paid by Petroleum Companies.

The Accounts Clerks in a Petroleum Company are known to be better paid when compared to their peers in other sectors of the economy.

For the same jobs done in other sectors of the economy, the Petroleum Company will pay twice or three times as much as other companies, even bonuses are paid three to four times more.

This is due to the high turnover and high profit margins that the Petroleum Company is able to achieve from an essential commodity sold to the public.

Not all small companies are necessarily profitable.

Some remain small, due to their lack of capital, and due to the product type handles, which has a limited niche market that affect the size of turnover or volume of sales value.

Certainly, it is not correct that a Local Company should treat its Employees any worse.

Then again, it is an open market of Supply and Demand of a limited pool of labor. If one is dissatisfied with the work environment, one can always pack up and leave.

Every job experience can only count as an additional skill and knowledge to ones experience quotient, and will add to ones marketable value.