Singapore Airspace Military Activity

last SG · 2002-05-03T22:28:00+00:00

for more info of pitch black 02 come to this site: http://www.defence.gov.au/raaf/exercises/pitchblack02/gallery.cfm?paginate=21 this exercise got the sg f...

Viper52 SG

I've got my numbers sorted out now, the requirement is for 20 heavy transports and 30 attack. So we're still short of that numbers in both depts(16 Chinooks delivered/on order and 20 Apaches on order).

Judging by RSAFs habit of making piecemeal purchases staggered over time, expect more orders for both types soon

I think 30 Apaches is enough, FWIW

PS. anyone read the recent article in flight International that US is interested in our first 6 Chinooks? These aircraft were built to CH-47D standard(while later RSAF orders were Super Ds), with provisions for the large fuel tanks, precisely like the standard US Army model. Reason being they need attrition replacements after Anaconda.

Seems like a deal would benefit both sides, we get to standardise our fleet, they get the attrition replacements. Probably we'll be able to use the Ds as part payment for more Super Ds...

Joe Black SG

Well, 30 Apaches and 20 Chinooks sounds more appropriate Smile

PS. anyone read the recent article in flight International that US is interested in our first 6 Chinooks? These aircraft were built to CH-47D standard(while later RSAF orders were Super Ds), with provisions for the large fuel tanks, precisely like the standard US Army model. Reason being they need attrition replacements after Anaconda.

Seems like a deal would benefit both sides, we get to standardise our fleet, they get the attrition replacements. Probably we'll be able to use the Ds as part payment for more Super Ds...

yeah, perhaps George doubya will do a 1 to 1 swap for RSAF as gratitude and goodwill to Singapore for showing support to American's war on terror !!! Smile Well at least I can dream Smile

Shotgun SG

Those bugs would be here for about 3 weeks right? I wonder how are the Aussie pilots faring…

Joe Black SG

Hey guys,

Jane's International Defense Review posted this article
----------------------------------
Singapore mini reconnaissance UAV system unveiled
Two mini unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) systems which Singapore Technologies
Dynamics (STD) has been developing using internal funds were unveiled at Asian
Aerospace. The first of these is the fixed-wing PhantomEye, designed as a
squad-level battlefield reconnaissance system, with a 5-10km operating radius
carrying a daylight/low-light video camera or biological/chemical detector.
[Jane's International Defense Review : first posted to http://idr.janes.com - 16
April 2002]
----------------------------------

Has anyone read this? Any more info? Is this the Firefly we have been discussing so far?

Viper52 SG

AFAIK the Aussie pilots are quite well regarded in professsional circles, and are known to fly very well. Thats why they get invited for mulitilateral exercises with the US quite often. However I once heard from a US ANG personnel that they(the ANG guys) didn't know people could take that much beer and stay alive!

Same goes for our RSAF boys, if they're not good enough to provide high standard opposition for other pilots are Red Flag etc, they won't get invited back.

If you're lucky, the aussies may stay in Singapore for quite a while. They stayed for 3 exercises at least once, FPDA-ADEX, Churinga(RSAF-RAAF) and Slingaroo(RSAF-USAF-RAAF).

tripwire SG

According to janes.... FIREFLY... is supposed to be BIG.... and supersonic.... i doubt those 2 can go supersonic.....

recoil SG

who ever heard of a BIG UAV? it's meant for recon isnt it. unless like some ppl suggest, u can fit a warhead on it and turn it into a cruise missle...
do we really need 40+ UAVs in our inventory???

tripwire SG

who ever heard of a BIG UAV? it's meant for recon isnt it. unless like some ppl suggest, u can fit a warhead on it and turn it into a cruise missle...
do we really need 40+ UAVs in our inventory???

[/B][/QUOTE]

Have you heard about global hawk?? it flew across the entire pacific ocean from america to australia!!

Shotgun SG

Why supersonic? For stuff to go supersonic, they burn a lot of fuel. In turn it cuts the loiter time of a UAV. That = Valuable Battlefield surveillance unavailable.

Joe Black SG

Furthermore, supersonic flights create sonic booms - a sure way to tell everyone you are here to spy on them... Smile That is why current gen of UAVs employ small propeller engines. Flying at some 10,000ft, you won't hear much noise from them.

tripwire SG

well... according to ST... the need for a high speed UAV is to enable rapid ground surveilance at long distances....

Which is to say.... with a supersonic UAV... SAF will be able to carry out deep enemy rear sector intelligience coverage.... OR enable SAF to gather information ASAP....

A slow propeller UAV.... would take quite some time to reach a far away area of interest...

Furthermore... a slow UAV can still be detected by a ground base radar... having a high speed UAV would increase the survivalbility of a UAV that will increase its chances to reach deep behind enemy line...

Lastly.... a high speed UAV endurance can be increased with greater fuel capacity... and may not require to loiter for as long a time as a propeller based UAV....

Furthermore... it is my belief that in future time to come... UAV might be high on the list of targets by enemy SAM... to prevent lost of military secreats and initiatives... to the enemy...

as such.. propeller driven plane with its slow speed... might not survive well in a real battle scenario.... although in peace time trainning... the idea of shooting down a UAV is a lunancy idea... but in war... an enemy force would have no qualms about shooting it down...

Shotgun SG

With our satellite imaging capabilities, do we really need a supersonic UAV that can position itself to the “rear?” Larger fuel tanks = larger size, which means the RCS will increase, and chances of radar detection will increase.

tripwire SG

I think it is quite possible to incorporate some stealth features for future generation UAVs.... furthermore... a UAV is already by constuction much smaller than a real fighter planes carrying weapon loads... thus... it might not be that far fetch a possibility...

Lastly... a high speed UAV can in future... become a high speed missile.... the isrealis got a UAV called the harpy... which is a loiter UAV with Anti radar target ability... well.. .the harpy practically ram itself into the radar emitters...

Shotgun SG

Ah, I see. Looks like the Israelis have learn’t something from their Palestinian neighbours afterall.

jagkoh SG

I personally don't think there is a supersonic UAV is a feasible idea with the current control and transmitting technology. A faster UAV need not be supersonic. The prop drive is replaced with a turbine jet drive to increase the speed(not supersonic) and load capacity.

Think about the human controller, can he handle a supersonic plane whose area of view is less than 180 degrees and mainly pointing downwards.

Next fuel capacity. With present solid fuel used on missiles, They can only maintain flight for mins, unless they have the size of a ICBM. With the small size of a UAV, only fuel to last mins of supersonic flight. Though it can reach the distance and return. The picture taken would be a blur. Thus negating it deployment.

Possible uses, Anti radar missions while the opposition air defense are strong, Precision bombing as only one missile is carried (missile weight 200kg). Recon, as fast look on the desired location.

The prop planes are still useful for lotiering to give the arty a on-time look of the target. This was its primary mission designation when it was designed.

The air speed of the present UAV are still relatively slow. The miniture turbine engines developed would be those similar to those on the Tombhawk. And I seen a picture of a F-16 flying along side the missile, so manned fighter still can chase and shoot them down. Provided you know where they are.

Another one point to ponder, Sturcture strength of the UAV air frame. missles has small wings so their air resistance is low, and structure design is easier. A UAV designed like a missile can go supersonic but who is flying it? Computer? Then you would need a huge missile to fly supersonic to 50km. And how are you going to recover the UAV?

tripwire SG

I think the biggest problem we all are facing here is that non of us knew how big FireFly is gonna be.... all we know are from defence magazines who interviewed this ST fella who said that Firefly is BIG and can go supersonic....

provided that unless we know how big or huge firefly is... there seems little point in arguing whether it will be able to go supersonic or loiter over a long span of time in enemy space....

But... assuming that somehow... Firefly is indeed big.... maybe even half the size of a fighter plane!!! than everything becomes a possibility...

Futhermore... ... just a suggestion... isit possible to make UAV fly at supersonic speed using super cruise... like the EF2000 without having to switch on afterburn?

jagkoh SG

I think the present trend of aircaft research a ummmanned fighter or bomber(a huge UAV) as the military circus are trying to put manned combat aircrafts into obselete. Consisdering the hinderance caused by a human pilot, withstanding a fraction amount of G-forces compared to the onboard equipment strength.

The space and weight taken up for instumentation and safety measures for a human pilot can be utilised for enhacement of the combat abilities of the aircraft. The pilot could be on the ground in a simulator sort of cockpit and pilot the plane. So your transfer rate and path of the data from the aircraft is critical. It must be able to withstand interferences(EMI) and obstraction from terrain. Unless you have a clear path of data transfer, you will face a brick wall in the design.

You would have to include a signal protection units too. Or a preprogrammed module to take the aircraft back to base if the signal is lost.
Anyone has any suggestion to solve this?

Joe Black SG

To me it sounded as if ST Areo is trying to build a UCAV rather than a UAV. A big UAV even in the size of Global Hawk is not easy to develop. Furthermore it will cost quite a fair bit. Even the US UCAV is going to cost somewhere 1/3 to 1/2 the price of an F-16. Can ST Aero ready afford to finance such a project? Assuming that this is one of their secret R&D project.

Viper52 SG

Back to the original topic, I’ve heard that a group of F-16s from the Indiana Air National Guard has joined the Aussie Hornets here for the combined exercise. This makes it the 3rd Slingaroo exercise ever held and the 2nd invlving a ANG unit, after F-15s from the Louisiana ANG kicked off the first Slingaroo with 75 Sqn RAAF in 1998. Nice to see the ANG units with their colourful and interesting markings back, it was a real downer to see the Commando Slings scaled back during the Clinton years, now that they actually have a real president in the White House the Americans are warming to Singapore again

Eyezer SG

I think it's pretty impossible, at least at this point of time to judge that they are gonna replace a physical pilot with an AI. Although it is cheaper and costs less (not considering the 'priceless' pilots!) but i think there is no situational awareness in AI! It would be like flying a MS Flight Sim more than an aircraft, and i guess that would mean any kid can fly a UCAV then.

The concept of having a UCAV(i think) is to be piloted by a ground crew to carry out the missions under the cover of a human piloted fighter.It is more of an asset than a replacement for the air fleet. I doubt you can replace human reflexes and experiences with just an AI. There are utimately just a machine with no 'brains'.

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