Military tactics and strategies

last SG · 2001-10-05T21:40:00+00:00

no no no... it should be,,.... as far as Malaysian corcern.... we wont hve war with singapore.... but with a mother fucker like u around... its hard to say n...

Silenthunter SG

Originally posted by recoil:
are you sure the bionix can take a 105mm gun? thats a pretty big gun for a 20 ton tank...

and are our longbows army assets or air force assets? are all 20 of them longbows or just 12? im not very clear. =P

[/B]

if the 20 tonne AMX10 can hold a 90mm cannon, I dun think it'll be any problem for a 24tonne bionix to hold a 105mm cannon...Anyway, they've already succeeded in mounting an enginneer's bridge to it (SVLB) so should be possible.

tripwire SG

Originally posted by Joe Black:
[b]
I think some sort of 105mm armed light tank is in the pipeline (rumour has it that it will be a design from STEngg based on Bionix chassis). We just have to sit and wait.

Another thing that I have heard was that it really depends who is the chief of army at any given time. If the Chief of Army comes from the arty background (trying not to name names here... Smile , then of course the arty units are going to get all the nice toys. Just look at how many new toys they have got since the late 80s till now, M72, FH88, FH2000, LH105, and now LWSPH). If the next Chief of army comes from one with armour background, I'm sure the armour units will get more and better vehicles other than the Bionix. Maybe a whole new gen of vehicle based on Terrex and a Bionix 105mm gun platform, maybe even some foreign designed tanks to replace the Centurions as well...

are you sure the bionix can take a 105mm gun? thats a pretty big gun for a 20 ton tank...

and are our longbows army assets or air force assets? are all 20 of them longbows or just 12? im not very clear. =P

[/b]12 apache got longbow... 8 no have longbow....

BUT... the americanos are pushing SAF to put longbows on all the 20 apache..... and then buy another 40 apache without longbows.....

YourFather SG

Speaking of Apaches, only the last 12 will have the Arrowhead system. Also, it seems that we have an unusual agreement with Boeing, such that the Longbow system is on a “pay as you use” basis. The rationale is that the Longbow system is slated to receive upgrades (range improvements etc) very soon, and we will upgrade our Apaches with the upgraded Longbow system when it’s available.

Viper52 SG

I saw a report(in Flight International I think) stating that 12 RSAF Apaches have Longbow, but the other 8 doesn't, but I believe that report is errorneous. Officially Singapore only has 8 sets of Longbow radar on order

I saw a picture of RSAF's first Apache on a Yahoo discussion groups recently, showing the first of Singapores Apaches that was recently delivered, from the 1st batch of 8. It HAS the Longbow radar.

Given that the original FMS contract for the 8 AH-64Ds(1st order) also DID NOT contain Longbow(the radar was provided for in a separate FMS contract with the radar's manufacturer, not with Boeing, and was announced MUCH LATER that the helo order), I would not be surprised that the 12 we have on order will also have the Longbow radar, but the order has not been announced yet, considering that we've ordered the 2nd batch of 12 in Aug 2001, expect a low-profile(ie not in Straits Times) announcement in the coming months.

UltraSpeed SG

Final Ans RUn while u CAN Laughing

YourFather SG

I saw a video today which stated that the FH-2000 was exported to a NATO country. Does anybody know which country is that?

Shotgun SG

Honestly, I don’t believe its possible to arm an effective 105mm gun on the Bionix without making major changes. No point havin low pressure guns like the 100mms on the BMPs.

YourFather SG

why do you think it not possible to arm the Bionix with a 105mm? There are already 2 wheeled vehicles sporting 120mms….

Shotgun SG

And how many shots can those 2 vehicles fire without recalibrating?

Actually, a 105mm gun can be mounted on the Bionix, just wondering what kinda changes they have to make to the chasis. Esp. regarding survivability.

YourFather SG

Hmmm, I dunno :-) But definitely such a problem would have been well-considered during the product design phase. The vehicle would have been built to handle the gun's recoil, and I think that it would be a reasonable assumption that the recalibrating problem would be minimised through design optimisation. (otherwise why put a 120mm cannon on it if the chassis cannot handle it, or the gun has to be recalibrated after every few rounds fired?)

BTW, here's some latest news on Singapore's JSF participation...
"The Pentagon said on Thursday it was discussing special deals to bring Israel and Singapore into development of the Joint Strike Fighter aircraft. "We have not determined exactly what the relationship is going to be," said Edward Aldridge, the Pentagon's chief weapons purchaser. "We're still in negotiations with them."
Aldridge said he hoped Australia would begin negotiations on joining by July 15, the deadline he has set for invited countries to declare at least their intent to join. (Reuters, June 20)

Joe Black SG

Hi guys, I just found this page:

http://www.dsta.gov.sg/newsroom/2001/report/220601_jane_singapore_deconstruction_forges_ahead.htm

there are a few interesting points I would like to raise from the article for discussion...

1.

More clearly fulfilling a local requirement, Singapore bought 54 United Defense LP M109-series SPH chassis. These will be fitted with an indigenous 155mm/52-cal turret, but the programme's timetable is not known. Firepower may eventually be further strengthened by acquiring a multiple-rocket launcher system. Although Singapore has so far hesitated to introduce such a capability to the region.

Is SAF arty units going for a big boost? True SP (tracked) vehicle? MLRS type weapons?

2.

commando battalion is re-equipping with high-speed boats capable of reaching 70kt.

Wow, I never knew any boats that can go 70kt. Even the Navy Seals don't have such boats. I wonder how acurrate this figure is....

3.

The SAF says the four Sjöormen-class submarines, two of which are now in Singapore and two in Sweden, were obtained for training. The boats have operational capabilities, but originally date from the mid-1960s and are fairly small, at a displacement of 1,210 tons (dived). Industry sources say the evaluation process is still under way, but they expect this to lead to an order for substantially more sophisticated submarines before the decade ends.

Looks like RSN may get more new subs pretty soon....

BTW, this articule was published in the Janes Defence Weekly, but reproduced in DSTA website. Interestingly, the comments made must then be right on the dot for DSTA to reproduce it.

Shotgun SG

Fwah, sounds like Jane’s made DSTA lan lan again.

thomasct SG

Given how similar FH2000 and FH88 are, I can't see why FH2000 guys can be retained to use FH88 during their 13 years reservist.

The mains reason for Sg to aquire FH 2000 ;

1. Better range & performance
2. LESS manpower required.

Correct me if I am wrong . Rolling Eyes

FH- 88 have a 8 men crew
FH- 2000 have a 6 men crew.

So if FH 2000 unit want change over to FH 88 guns , the unit concerned will have increased its strenght by at 33 % - to have the same nos. of gun.

THe main reason that why SG bought the FH 2000 in the first place is to reduced manpower .

[quote]Originally posted by :tripwire

Laughing lb] [quote]ets just say that there are only 18 FH2000 arty pieces in the inventory... PLUS lots of prefabricated spare parts that can be rapidly reassembled into dozens and dozens of new FH2000 in times of crisis...( before war breakout) [/b]Sorry my friend , it is not that simple.

lb]

but if crisis developed and suddenly we see hundreds of FH2000 and thoudsands of other locally made vehicles moving all over singapore... (dont be surprise) [/b]

As for the above comments , my only comment please do not get " carry away " and make yourself a Embarassed

Crying or Very sad One more thing thing , NOBODY correct me when I deliberately overstated the nos. of gun in a art. bn. Sad

That all for now - got to make a move .

Yourfather

What video you are refering to ??
Your question regarding nos. of Fh 2000, I will " elaborate "" in my next posting .

Shotgun
For you , some comments on the Bionix .

GOOSEN SG

Sorry if i interrupt anyone filpping through the latest Jane Military but.......

I think better import more Prosthetics legs and arms. maybe get the latest wheel chairs and import more foreign nurses.

Hey i got a better idea, lets buy big big insurance policy so our old mom and dad can get on w/o us, if we are gone.

In war who knows where the wind blows. After the war, maybe 5 out of 10 chinese males will be maimed for life (what's life of the male chinese population anyway). A trip down orchard road u will probably see pple without leg, or hands, without an eye, or blinded. Look at the news of war torn country.pple w/o legs and arms. u all really want war?

Battle of Somme, Britain lost their cream of their man hood, so how long will spore have to wait to replace a lost generation?

EXCO SG

No one wants war. All our men are real, not numbers or statistics, and when lives are lost (especially in our small country) in a war, the whole country feels it. Thats why the Government makes efforts to reduce conflicts and enhance the survivability of our troops. We still have to maintain a credible force, you never know when war may happen.

YourFather SG

The video I was referring to was called "Lean Army Mean Machines". I believe it was shown on Channel 5 before.

Also, my friend told me that the Rapier was going to be retired in the 2006 to 2008 timeframe. (dunno true or not) If so, what do you think would be a good replacement for the Rapier? I personally like the HUMRAAM system, even though its not really a SHORADS system like the Rapier.....

On top of that, I have also read from my copy of AWS&T that Israel is purchasing 6 Gulfstream Vs which would be fitted with their Phalcon system. Of these 6, 4 would be sold to 'an unnamed foreign customer'. I'm hoping that'd be us Smile I feel that the Gulfstream would be a good performance AEW system with low operating costs, when compared to the 737 Wedgetail....

Joe Black SG

I read something about Singapore reviewing its air-defence (SAM) capabilities and there are talks about purchasing of new systems in the near future. IMHO, I think land based Aster-15/30 or Barak may replace the Rapier and possibly something else to replace the I-HAWKs.

As for the Israeli Phalcon thing, I think the 4 may not be us. BTW, don't you think that 2 Phalcon is a little low in number for Israeli themselves? Singapore may purchase Phalcon, but I think we will still have to wait another couple of years to see if that is the case. Given RSAF recent upgrade of E-2C, I can't see RSAF want to spend more on an AEW system other than LALEE.

YourFather SG

I dunno, but that was what was reported in the article. They've been facing a budget shortage in recent months, and with the mobilisation of their forces, expenditure is surely diverted from procurements. Perhaps they want a gradual replacement of their Hawkeyes?

"Given RSAF recent upgrade of E-2C, I can't see RSAF want to spend more on an AEW system other than LALEE."

Are you sure the LALEE is an AEW system. I have always thought the LALEE was a maritime surveillance or ground surveillance aircraft. Having a fully autonomous, unpiloted AEW system is a concept that has not been envisaged by any other armed force in the world. I doubt that Singapore would try something like that.

Joe Black SG

LALEE could potentially be used as an AEW plaform but of course of much reduced capabilities and capacity than a true AEW platforms like the Hawkeyes and Phalcon. However, US and Australia is working on a radar for the Global Hawk to perform AEW tasks. The same kind of radar could be carried by LALEE. The advantage of using a large UAV as AEW platform is that they are more afforable and thus more numbers could be purchased and deployed at the same time. Furthermore, the cost of losing one is not as great as losing a manned AEW platform.

In my opinion the best ROI RSAF can obtain from the Hawkeyes are to upgrade them to the 2000 standards and install CEC capabilities unto the Hawkeyes. RSAF could purchase 2 more ex-Israeli Hawkeyes to boost the number to 6 instead of 4 and thus extend the lifespan of the airframes.

LALEE could then be purchased to fulfil the maritime and ground surveillance, with the ground surveillance having a SAR radar that can act like a miniture J-STAR. Some LALEE could be armed with a capable phased array radar for AEW job.

I guess the alternative is to totally phased out the Hawkeyes and get something more advanced like the 767-Phalcon, or Wedgetails.

thomasct SG

Hi everyone ,

Found a ": Shocked Mad Shocked story " about RSAF send armed F 16s into Malaysia post in another fourm , suppose to be " a real life event Rolling Eyes "

For the full on-going discussion & to join the " fun Laughing " , click below :
http://pub21.ezboard.com/ffighterplanesfighters.showMessageRange?topicID=5572.topic&start=1&stop=20

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