New Bus Services Announced by LTA/PTOs (Part 2)

last SG · 2016-02-09T10:18:07+00:00

If you're here to encourage people to take the MRT above the public bus, I feel that you have come to the wrong forum. SGTrains was created for a reason.So i...

carbikebus SG

Or we could easily add buses to that service...? Why is route duplication always the solution? The paradox of choice?

Adding so much fleet doesnt help much either,The only way is to 50-60% duplicate each other routes..Its not about paradox of choices but more to demand pattern in Sg,They rather see new number than same old number with more fleet add.Take an example of 190/972,Is it sucessful?

SMB128B SG

190 and 972 only duplicate Orchard Rd sector... Completely different story. They cant possibly amend 190 into the depths of BPJ! Furthermore fleet add was also given to 190 even after 972 intro. Thus it shows that adding fleet is still more favourable.

SBS6465E SG

I dont quite get your logic too. How could a long loop be any better than bi-di svc in terms of RELIABILITY and FLEET MANAGEMENT? No proof no talk. And what do you have to support this statement of yours?

In fact, I give you MY examples. Svc 23, 24 are amongst the divas who never fail to piss commuters off. Show me ONE service that is bi-di (and isnt legendary svc) and has horrible reliability. Do it!

SMB128B maybe I was not clear in my statements. What I actually wanted to say was that the latter is always better.

SBS6465E SG

That's the point you see. Rather than adding fleet to existing services, you create a separate service to provide an alternative to the neighborhood. 972 in some ways compliments 190 by providing BPJ residents with an alternative connection to Orchard Rd. Even though it serves a different stretch of BPJ, these residents would have still relied on 190/700 anyway, prior to the introduction of DTL2. And adding fleet in this case is mutually exclusive to the debate. LTA, after all, added fleet after a new service was introduced. It did so because it felt that having recently introduced a new service, introducing another new service was not warranted. Your example falls through. If you tell us that LTA only added fleet to 190 and 700 without introducing 972, then it would hold more water.

Can you cite examples of routes where adding fleet would have been better than creating a complimentary service?

carbikebus SG

Adding fleet subsequently is acceptable but adding too many buses also lead to waste resource..You introduce a new service which can ply other route as well as to compliment that heavy loading service..Well if you dont favour then its your choice.

BusAnalayzer SG

53M should just merge with 113 and skip hougang st 11 and terminate at Serangoon interchange. Hougang Central - Serangoon Interchange.

113M can be introduced, frequency of 20-25mins to serve Kovan station - Upper paya lebar road (Loop) in order not to lose the link for Hougang st 11 residents. (only bus svc in that stretch). According to LTA, there is demand from hougang st 11 to kovan station. Therefore they are unable to make 113 skip this stretch and extend to serangoon int. According to PTC, public transport operators are required to put up bus arrival timings at the bus stop for bus services with intervals more than 20 minutes. So,113M can cover up.

Yes this was my suggestion few years ago. Makes lot of sense but instead 53M was implemented.

SBS2656X SG

Serangoon Interchange is full.

BusAnalayzer SG

It nearly duplicate Svc 80 from Upp Paya Lebar to Sth Bridge Rd.

Not really except few stops. 62 comes out of Lor Ah soo and turns to Macpherson. 80 comes from Kovan and turns to Geylang East Central. I do agree 62 does not need to go NBR anymore, but needs to find a home on the other end.

SMB128B SG

Can you cite examples of routes where adding fleet would have been better than creating a complimentary service?

Sure.

The Bukit Timah corridor.

Too many service, for essentially one stretch of road. In the first place most svcs there have potential to become express. Eg. 61, 157. All these svcs along the road mostly serve ONE purpose: bringing commuters along BKT road. Hence only one or two svcs are actl needed, and other svcs could be made express. It actually benefits commuters for these svcs as they have faster connection eg. Boon Lay - TPY.

Better than have more of one or two (preferably short) svcs than less of more. In fact, even before DTL runs most buses run half-empty along BKT road. Leave alone now.

Regarding 972, it was intro coz it was express, otherwise dream on abt having a new legendary svc.

Sbs6750E SG

When DTL3 is up, can convert 66/67 semi-express alr to compete with DTL3. Who wants to take DTL from BPJ to Jln Besar/Bendemeer? You are waisting your precious 20 mins around the CBD.
IMHO, people would prefer taking direct express buses to winding DTL/transfer here and there.

array88 SG

Can you cite examples of routes where adding fleet would have been better than creating a complimentary service?

116: Introduced partly to ease 315's crowd from Serangoon to Serangoon North. But somehow people still preferred to take 315 although it is more winding. In the end 116 has less satisfactory loading, and 315 still received fleet additions.

258: Supposed to ease 243's crowd from Boon Lay Int, but again people don't recognise 258 even when it arrives before 243.

array88 SG

Serangoon Interchange is full.

Again 113 or 53M extension can just loop at Serangoon Int.

But still they don't listen...

SBS2656X SG

Again 113 or 53M extension can just loop at Serangoon Int.

But still they don't listen...

Well 53M is made so that it stops at the same stop as 53 which goes towards Upper Paya Lebar, so people have 2 choices. Same goes to 43M, stopping at the same stop as 43 which goes towards Buangkok. By changing the routing of 53M to bypass Serangoon Int would make it not that feasible to loop around and pass by that stop.

array88 SG

Sure.

The Bukit Timah corridor.

Better than have more of one or two (preferably short) svcs than less of more. In fact, even before DTL runs most buses run half-empty along BKT road. Leave alone now.

Regarding 972, it was intro coz it was express, otherwise dream on abt having a new legendary svc.

While I agree that some services can be made express, only leaving 1 or 2 services are NOT enough.

Residents along Bukit Timah and students in the various schools have demand to various places that cannot be served by just 1 or 2 services. To the west: Clementi (154, 156), Bukit Batok (66, 67, 77, 157, 174, 852), CCK/BPJ (67, 170, 171, 961), Jurong West (157, 174); To the north: Ang Mo Kio (74, 852), Toa Payoh (151, 154, 157); To city: Little India (48, 66, 67, 170), Orchard (171, 174); etc.

You need to understand that students here can come from all parts of Singapore... And even though DTL and CCL have taken away many students off the buses, there are still those who take the buses, and there are destinations where DTL doesn't really help (e.g. Clementi). Maybe we can make a few services express (my suggestion: 66, 151, 170), but don't have to leave only 1 or 2 (and force everyone to transfer at Beauty World??).

And I don't think buses running half-empty along Bukit Timah Road was a common sight before DTL. In fact, the only ones with half-empty buses all day should be 852, and partly 151, 961. Off peak you may see more empty buses, but that's the case for all services in Singapore.

SMB128B SG

While I agree that some services can be made express, only leaving 1 or 2 services are NOT enough.

No need to argue with me. My favourite cafe is at Sixth Ave and I go there often. One look and I know you arent familiar with the loading. Since when 151 has scarce loading? Even before it reaches HCI it could fully sit a B10M. Thats already more than that of svcs like 171, 157, both of which are not in your list.

You REALLY think any student in the right mind, would sit thru the entire BKT Rd and even before that, for 30+ stops before reaching sch? No luxury of time for that man. Usually students just board any bus they see, head to the nearest station, and take the train. This is, ofc, as a result of lack of fast bus routes in the region.

I have already suggested COUNTLESS times, to make buses skip stops or even skip BKT road. And maybe svcs like 852 to fill in for the job. Nobody said we need to transfer at Beauty World — we could always amend a svc to ply a stop on the PIE (eg. Trellis Towers) and pax can transfer there.

With the DTL around, trust me, one or two svcs with decent freq is more than enough. Think of those who commute between east and west. So you are saying there is no demand THERE for express svcs? Instead of constantly overflowing JE? Look at the other side of the picture man, in fact I guarantee the demand there is miles greater.

SBS5010P SG

If u notice actually the BCs driving 53M are either from 62 or mostly from 113. Should just merge 53M and 113 as they are almost similar, except the serangoon central stretch. Even though with 53M, not many passengers are willing to wait for 53M at opp blk 239 and they still wait at blk 210 for 113 to lorong ah soo and hougang ave 1.

array88 SG

Okay your post reminds me that 151's loading is not so bad after all... Just that it's less than 74 and 154 which I take to Clementi Rd more often. But your statement that I'm not familiar with the loading really made me laugh.

Talk about the pre-DTL days first: Are you sure 157 and 171 do not have demand? They are both popular student services (and by this I mean not just for students to go to nearest MRT) especially 157... If you really observe at some bus stops there you will really see crowds taking westbounds 157. And I am not even talking about weekends or evening peak when 171 can be packed to the door...

DTL has taken away many students, of course (I see far less people at TKK bus stop now), but those are people staying further away (especially to the east). There are still plenty of people taking buses along Bukit Timah (and not just to connect to the nearest MRT stops). Do you think someone at NJC will take bus to Sixth Avenue, take DTL to King Albert Park, and transfer to 154 to Clementi; or will he just take 154 direct? Yes those staying all the way at CCK/BPJ take DTL, but those in Bukit Batok, Jurong etc, not really. And of course people still take 74 to AMK Hub instead of bus-DTL-CCL-NSL.

I amnot getting into a war of words here, but I'm just saying what I observe. And leaving one single 852 for the whole Bukit Timah stretch is not the solution. Yes, there is demand from let's say Bukit Batok to Toa Payoh, but I don't think that means demand coming from the stops inbetween can be compromised.

carbikebus SG

151 need 2 more split DDs thats all.

SMB128B SG

My observation for 157 is eastbound... To clarify.

The issue at hand is hence, we need not so many svcs here. Fine, maybe some of those svcs here can do the role of 852... But svcs like 67, 157 (can do uni- directional semi-express) rly not needed lor... We could easily fleet add to them if needed.

My baseline being: it is okay for alternatives for ppl, so long as it doesnt unnecessarily put long-distance commuters at a disadvantage. When it does, fleet add does wonders.

SBS5010P SG

151 need 2 more split DDs thats all.

Problem with 151 is the DDs are scheduled at the wrong timings. The SDs are always packed but the DDs half full.

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