old man at work

last SG · 2007-09-04T12:42:22+00:00

Easy - try what my friend did - sudden he just stand up in the middle and shout. "Please can we have no more shouting at each other, it it causing me stress...

jackdaniels SG

I recently started work on a project and yesterday marked the 3rd time my limit has been pushed by a certain colleague.

Beginning to wonder if this is a result of my weak personality or if this is the work of an obscene higher being. I apologize if this is a long post.

First brush with Mr N: 1 week into the project

Told me to get out in front of everybody. Stupidly I apologized. I moved away. Many others were standing where I was and nobody was told off except for myself. Whether it takes a cad to publicly denounce a female in a sea of men or if it simply means his chances of receiving a black eye for being rude are slimmer, I have no idea. Anyhow, I swallowed and backed off.

***

Second brush with Mr N: 3 weeks into the project

We were all awaiting further instructions within confined space. Possibly 12 men plus myself in a small room. We were all on standby and just waiting. Mr N shows up, scans the room, yells at me to "get out of the place" again because everybody was busy, and tired, and there was "no need to for me to be around" and being in the way. IMHO, I wasn't in the way of anybody. We were all chilling out and exchanging ideas. If I were blocking the hall way or being a pest, I would know it.

It was a very rude remark. Even humiliating. Of everybody in the room he had to pick on the only female and the youngest. The most harmless. Everybody was silent afterwards and nobody spoke up for me. I told him I was trying to do my job and he retorted saying there was nothing for me to do there.

I don't think any one of my colleagues was in the place to speak up against him. One of the bosses came around afterwards, told me Mr N snaps at everybody, I just happened to be an unfortunate target that morning. A while later one of the partners who hired me came around as well and apologized on Mr N's behalf in front of the team. Neutralized the position by saying I had every right to be where I was. And that they needed my help for the project to sell. That I must be with the team to get my job done. And Mr N had crossed the line and they would have a talk with him.

Afterwards Mr N offered a personal apology. He seemed sincere enough. They probably made him apologize because it is not in his nature to do that. I let Mr N banter about how he isn't a monster and how he was sorry for being rude yada yada yada. I let him go on and on and I believed he would at the very least, be pressured into being co operative.

An hour after lunch, the same thing happened. He promised me an opportunity for a shot. He didn't deliver. He conveniently dismissed everybody and the entire set up. I got very upset to the extend of crying (I know this is stupid) so I worked up the nerve to tell him I would not be seeking his permission any more for what I can or cannot do at work. As long as others have cleared approval, I would proceed. Reason being my ass was on the line if I cannot deliver my work. He insisted there was no need for me to be where I was. I told him that wasn't his call. He isn't signing my pay check and has no say over creative decisions. I'm merely respecting his position as a manager in an age-old heir achy found at every other work place.

***

Third brush with Mr N: Last week

Again we were all in confined space. He physically pushed me and another co-worker out of the area. By saying there was no need for us to be in there etc etc. Again, his counterparts joined me and neutralized the position. Pushing me out of the place? Seriously I haven't been pushed before. I have no idea why any grown man approaching 50 years of age would do that to me. I have no idea why he is being so difficult towards me. I have no idea if this is personal. I have never even met him prior to being on this project. I haven't spoken ill of him. Haven't antagonized him. I am not an immediate threat. I am genuinely surprised I have become his primary target because apart from being hired to be there and do what I am paid to do, I have no business within their inner circle. It is not in my place or position to be a threat. This man, if he has anything against me at all, is mental. It is purely mental. He is mental.

And I am here, wondering what I should do, because having sifted through a profile of my work yesterday, I realized I had no winning effort to show. Mr N had come up to me and asked if I got what I needed after everybody was dismissed. I told him I hadn't. And I was promised there would be a continuation of that particular set up and I would be able to capture what I needed for my work. So I waited. And waited. Past 6 hours, he handed me a chair and a useless piece of apparatus. I take it as industry speak for, "here take the chair and have a seat because really, there is no work for you to do over here." "There you go, take this useless piece of metal junk as well while you're on your chair."

I returned his kindness by handing over my equipment. He can try hanging my 8kg set up around his red neck and try doing what I do 12 hours a day and see whether he likes it. He responded in kind by presenting me with his cell phone. What appeared to be good humour contained a lot of underlying resentment in our brief friendly exchange. When work for the day was done, he'd come up to me and said he was glad I captured my winning shot. I couldn't stand but I was too tired or chicken to pick a fight so I walked away. All I wanted to do was finish my beer and get the hell out of that place.

In the middle of work yesterday, he took over my primary spot. The boss saw it. Smile and reminded me Mr N is getting in the way again. At times I wonder if that was his indication for me to start standing up for myself. At times the boss would snigger. At times he would just giggle past me. Either way I don't think the boss cares. He probably finds it very amusing to have a balding white haired Mr N going at me time and again. The boss is weird. Or he is kind. Anyhow he's got too much on his plate to worry about. I don't want to bug him about this. Maybe they are all mental. Who knows?

***

Now I am desperate. I have no idea what Mr N has against me. He gets in my way. Blocks my angle. Blocks my point of view. Where I point he stands right in front of me. I have no idea, no idea at all what this old fogey has against me. He yells at everybody. He is known to be a very snappy and unreasonably rude person. Problem is after his counterparts made him apologize, he has clearly toned down on the way he treats me in front of them.

This cad continues screaming at other women and not myself. He just resorts to getting at me on the sly. Which just makes it worse. I am a green horn and I am tired. Apart from having to fulfil my job I do not wish to have to worry about an old man making life living hell for me.

Having come from a humble academic/professional background, I dont mind being scolded at work. Being young, at times, or even having come from a tradition school of thought, it is fine being scolded or rebuked by elders, only reason being I'm still young and within an environment filled with many others who are far older and more experienced than I am. I have had my days being brazen and forthcoming, even vulgar, they didn't bode well for me in the end. So now I've adopted a, "talk less" "do my work shut up and f*ck off" attitude. If I cannot say the right things. I can at the very least do the right things. But I am now beginning to wonder if Mr N is getting personal. It seems as though he is making it personal. He is getting personal. He is making sure I do not deliver. He is making it his business to screw me over. This is one other reason I do not like attention. My immediate superior (also his boss) has probably tried helping by acknowledging my work in front of his peers. After which there was an immediate turn around of treatment. People are suddenly nicer. People are suddenly kissing asses. People are suddenly paying attention. People are being superficial. Mr N has also become difficult. I dislike this attention. And I do not understand why Mr N is making it his personal business to see to my ruin.

And I hate seeing how people are constantly screaming at others. I hate the way he disrespects his assistants. I may not be in a position to tell him off but you get the drift. A 50yo man screaming at 22yo women. 22 yo women screaming at 20 yo assistants. 20yo assistants being nasty to cleaners. I hate that. I don't want to have to see that. But I see it every day and I am sick of it.

Having sifted through some work taken yesterday I realize this cannot continue. And I want to avoid a conversation with my boss at all cost and I want to avoid a direct confrontation with Mr N.

What will anybody do in my shoes? How would you solve this problem in the subtlest of all manners?

Please help.

ChingAlvin SG

If i am you, i would be definitely pissed.

Talk to him, or if u cant try getting a transfer

He might be worried how youngster might take over him as he is old.

jackdaniels SG

Hi Alvin, I cannot get a transfer. We all work within the immediate environment within a closed place. Think painting a picture. Everybody gets together to paint a picture. The only ones in other departments are the ones buying towels, ponchos or trying to find bidders.

If I am a threat, for instance, if I am his assistant, I can understand why he wants to be nasty. But I ain't. I work in a different background for a different purpose. This is not his country and he will be back home when this work ends.

jojobeach SG

JD,

Its very disheartening to have to work in such hostile environment.

But if you love your work. You'd have to tolerate it.
Take the good with the bad.

Mr N is a character not unique in any work environment.
They are bullies.
They thrive when they know their hostilities are getting to you.
The sad part is, people actually accept it and allows such people to feast on the weak.

Office politics are no fun when you are the victim.

Maybe,
Mr N is like a Korean mother in law.
When he was younger, Mr N probably got his own share of being yelled at, screamed at and shoved around by someone more senior.
When his time comes, he wouldn't let the opportunity goes to waste.
It's now his turn to be nasty.

To break the vicious cycle of hostilities.
You need to remain calm, focus on your work.
Let the justice and conscience of others work for you.

ordinaryguy32 SG

jackdaniels,

One possibility is that Mr N is undergoing through a midlife crisis (as all men do, at certain points in their life). There could be 101 reasons why. Maybe he's physically not up to it anymore, maybe he has had a screwed-up relationship with his teenage son, maybe women no longer find him attractive, maybe the culture shock is getting to him...

As a woman among loads of men, you are the easiest target.

Nobody stood up for you, because they have not the guts. But rest assured, nobody can be on his side either.

He has looked stupider by the day, everytime he stood beside you. Hence it has become personal.

Don't be confrontational with him, if you can help it. He's spoiling for a fight, and losing his dignity all over again. There's no need to be like him.

jojo's advice is what I would give you too...
Stay calm and focus on your work...

One outrageous tactic you can try though is this : one fine morning, praise him in front of everyone "you look great today" as sincerely as possible. If he is thrown into bewilderment, then it's really a mid-life crisis.

oOprinceOo SG

yeps i fully agree

jojobeach SG

I wouldn't recommend this.

Good chance it will backfire, and make JD look like a suck up fool.

My take would be, to just ignore him until he goes back to where he belongs.

If JD is really good in her work. People will respect her for it.

Respect cannot be earned by trying to be witty.

walesa SG

Actually, what you mentioned is particularly prevalent in Asia - it's just one of those things where people, regardless of their inability, are accorded respect on the basis of seniority.

That said, it also goes without saying the sod you've painted is a deeply insecure chap who resorts to those antics to obtain validation for his self-worth. Ultimately, playing on their insecurity is the best thing you could do.

For such folks, the best thing you could often do against them is to stand up to them and let them know you're in charge of your affairs - by that, I do not mean seeking an affront or a confrontation. However, the need for you to stand up for yourself and send out a clear signal that you aren't one to be messed about (well, if you're at fault, then obviously it's a different matter) is pressing even if it's just to let him know he isn't going to get his way. After all, when he eventually realises that, he will pretty much leave you alone - the worst thing you could do is dance to his tune and give in to his unreasonable demands...

jackdaniels SG

Hi jojo,

I've been calm and focused. Others were probably surprised I did not stand up for myself when I was told to get out the second time round. All I did was, yeah, apologise for it and go away like a fool. Didn't think there was a need to pick a fight or yell at him just to prove any point. Afterwards when I think about it, I feel like a pushover. Why I didn't tell Mr N to go screw himself I have no idea. Am I being a sad pushover?

Whether colleagues are judging Mr N or myself doesn't matter. What mattered was, I missed my shot. At the back of my mind I know it means nothing even if my boss sympathises with me, it means nothing even if it's painfully obvious Mr N is being difficult. What matters is, I missed my shot. I have no winning work to show. I'm in no position to say, "That's Mr N's fault. He stood in the way of my angle. Whatever it is, this reflects on my overall ability.

My boss has commented I seem afraid Mr N would show up from a secret corner and start screaming at me. Then he laughs at me. I told him I probably developed a phobia and still he laughs. Is he mocking at me or does he see a lot of cuteness and humour in my situation, I no longer give a damn. He is right. I am trying so damn hard not to get in anybody's way it's fast becoming pathetic.

ordinary,

I'd think being the only female within our immediate working environment makes me the least possible target. With everybody else watching out for me and being helpful, it reflects very badly on Mr N whenever he picks on me. He's performed that outrageous tactic instead. In return I'm just polite. If I'm just polite, no one can fault me for being the sh*t stirrer. When he cannot be bothered to acknowledge me, I take it he's invisible too. When his counterparts strike a conversation with me or start offering me advice and tips in between work, he'll ask them whether they're still part of this production. Mr N makes snide remarks.

When another local colleague helped me out last week at work, for a few hours, he became Mr N's primary target. Mr N was constantly putting his ass on the line. It felt a little like being in boiler room. Not only do I have to rely on goodwill from others, I'm getting others into trouble as well. I don't want to be the person they are watching out for just because I am a troublesome female. I don't want special treatment. This shouldn't have to be the way.

walesa,

Thanks for your advice, when I return to work in a few day's time, I'll reinforce that and be very cool and clear in the head. Though I very much doubt by keeping calm will mean he's going to leave me alone. If he isn't leaving me alone when the top dogs are watching my ass, he will never leave me alone.

When I ignore his presence and not make any eye contact, he yells my name from across the room just to wish me a good morning. He has resorted to getting at me on the sly since he cannot get at me in the open. He promises me a shot in a face to face discussion then he never delivers when the time arrives. I'm tempted to be sarcastic now. I'm even tempted to hire hit man.

Would like to avoid an argument at all costs because if it comes to a point when they have to choose between Mr N and myself, I'm the one who is getting the boot. The replaceable one. Numerous people have gotten fired for unknown reasons already. I believe there is a reason why despite his mental problems, Mr N is still walking the streets scot free.

The best surprise I can receive when I show up for work the next day, is to find out Mr N has gotten fired. That would be stellar. That would remain in the far fetched corner of my dreams.

r0mE_27 SG

say that Mr N molestered you. LOL. Very Happy

jojobeach SG

JD,

Being calm does not mean you have to be meek.
Being calm means keeping your composure.
Being calm means you don't fly off your handle and start a cat fight with Mr N.
Being calm means you can kindly reject Mr N's demand with confidence.

Like saying " No thank you, I'm perfectly comfy where I am."
or saying " I'll have to ignore that request, you're not trying to bully me are you?"

Or ignoring Mr N when he shouts your name.
and telling him later when he comes across the room to talk to you
" Sir, please don't shout across the room, it's embarrassing."

Is he so powerful that you actually allow him to stand in the way of getting your desired shot ?

I mean, seriously girl, if you value your work so much.
You could have told him to get out of your way.

Have you watched the movie " The devil wears prada" ?
If you haven't, go rent it.

Yes, it seems you are quite a pushover, it ain't easy to be otherwise.
Especially when you have low self confidence/esteem.
And extremely so, when you are the one who's afraid of losing your job.

Try to be firm.
You ARE a professional , right ?
Now stop behaving like a rookie, people will stop treating you like one.

DailyFreeGames.com SG

In all honesty, I don’t know why you’re still with this company. I may not understand something but I seriously would quit. You see, we have choices, if you believe in yourself, if you want to do something, you’ll find a way. However, if you do not want to do something, you’ll find an excuse. For me, there is no excuse working with such a guy, especially if he is of a higher rank than me, if lower ranking than I may still tolerate because as a superior means I have to be more matured and wiser, but if the guy is higher ranked than me, it’s very hard to deal with such people. If your skill set is marketable, you can try change job or start out on your own, that way you choose your customers.

AndrewPKYap SG

Many things are all in the mind. I usually use their weaknesses against them or simply ignore such people. They are pitiful small people, why would you waste you precious thoughts thinking about them?

jackdaniels SG

hi jojo,

funny enough, i was so in need of validation for the right move i actually sat through the devil wears prada after seeing your message (jd in dire need of an inkling here). double confirmed it with some close friends, i am a pushover. at times i feel it's asking a lot from me, standing up to a redneck twice my age in an environment predominantly controlled by males. it is very intimidating. maybe it's just me. i'm scared. but i'm not a kid anymore. can't possibly cross my fingers and cower in a corner waiting to be rescued. it's my job yep, it's time to grow some balls and see what happens.

i really appreciate the telling off.

***

hi dailyfreegames,

i work for myself and value my relationship with this particular company. it's only a matter of time before i come out on my own and call my shots. but for now, the occasional humble pie is necessary. me thinks i'm still young. ok maybe 24 is ancient. call me traditional but i value the relationship. if i walk out on the job because of this conflict, i'm probably not seeing the bigger picture. i've quit on jobs i never gave a damn for. and quitting no longer solves problems at this age. i'll walk when i can afford to. this project will be over in 2 or 3 weeks' time. i'll turn my clients down when i want to in the future.

maybe this is a weakness in my personality i have to confront. like myself, Mr N has been engaged for his services. i have a lot of strong emotions towards Mr N now and it's beginning to grow. though something tells me it isn't right to let it show no matter what happens. i'm trying to weave my way through this without seeming too affected. i do not want to be the girl who ran away crying because she couldn't handle another bad ass.

in terms of hierarchy i am not under his direct orders. i execute independently and my work is reviewed by whoever hired me. so far the feedback is encouraging and that cheers me. i just require colleagues like Mr N to co operate. Mr N comes into play because he is a manager who moves and shakes people. He works with his mouth and head you see and is probably superior if you factor in age, color and height. that's about it. people of a lower level are usually polite. they do not stir trouble and i minimize contact. even then i notice opportunists among that pool, trying to take over my job from time to time. i had some trouble keeping them at bay or trying to keep them in their place. but for now i'll leave that alone because they tire me too. it's a whole other set of issue. and if they will take my job they will take my job. if they can't, they can't.

it's like running with a pack of wolves, trying to keep alive with some higher being shooting fire darts at my buttocks, all the while having the right eye on the real prize.

ordinaryguy32 SG

JD,

Mr N sounds like he's in a position of power to act like a sergeant major, and then get away with it.

He really has some self-esteem issues, the way I like to see it.

It's difficult to be confrontational, if you are meek by nature.

But can you perhaps just ignore all his rantings and ramblings, and look at him like he's a overage spoilt toddler?

You know that his words, though hurting, are crap anyway.

So the next time he rants at you in front of everyone again, just roll your eyes and shake your head, like you would do to a screaming toddler.

dragg SG

as s holes are everywhere. its not just because of his age.

jackdaniels SG

I can ignore his ranting and ravings. He no longer rants and raves at me, only at others. At this point, he resorts to being friendly with me in front of people, at the same time, he promises me a shot, and it conveniently "slips his mind." My work isn't done. He isn't being co operative. That is what bothers me. It isn't the raving lunatic that bothers me. It's knowing he stood in the way of my ability to do a proper job that is upsetting.

ispyyy SG

I do not noe wat is yr occupation or yr job scope... So, I cannot comment on who is right or wrong...
But however, I can tell u tat these is working life... There are times where we really do not noe wat yr seniors or yr boss are thinking... Sometimes, they treat u very nice till u feel "huh???" Sometimes, they freak u out till u are at the verge of crying... But seriously, it takes time to understand what those people are thinking... if u r inexperience, 3 weeks is definitely not enough to understand what these people r thinking...

After, u have understand, u will noe what things will trigger him or wat things wont trigger him... and just avoid those things... It should not be a problem unless, u r one who wants the environment to suit u rather than want yrself to suit the environment...

I m a guy... If I m in yr position except tat I m male, I will observe wat habits he has... If I have the chance, I will just jio him for a drink or guy's outing... Settle difference man to man lor...
For gal, I dont noe lah...

And yr post is really very very long...

jojobeach SG

JD,

Don't let age, color and gender intimidate you.

No doubt, you have to respect his experience in his field of work.
But remember, he is merely human.
He eats, poops, sleep, farts , snort like you and I do.

You have a self imposed barrier that must be overcome before you can step out with confidence and be at ease with yourself.

Don't hold your breath for him to fulfill his promises.
In a man's world, promises are made to be broken.
Promises are merely a matter of convenience.

Sometimes, in the real world, the ends justifies the means.

He's friendly with you now, because he needs to. Not that he really wants to anyway.

Get your way, YOUR way. Never rely on others to get what you need.

ordinaryguy32 SG

I see.
In this case, just keep doing what you have been doing well.

I have been in your situation before.

Just dribble around him even if it takes longer. Keep your eyes on the goal, and he would be just another obstacle, human or otherwise, in your quest for tangible results.

Get the support and understanding of your immediate superior on the situation, in an objective manner.

Unless the superior has his hands tied, he will gradually realize what is the greatest liability in the situation, and will do what is unpopular but perhaps necessary, that is to do some substitutions.