BIC
No, the bible verses doesnt say all that you have mentioned!
They are very clear cut that baptism is needed for salvation!
Why do you say "Mind you, I am not
saying that if you are not baptised then you are not
saved. "
Why are you trying to change the verse or explain away the
verse?
Yes synonymous i agree, but still the verse clearly says that
baptism IS NEEDED for salvation! Read the verses clearly!
How can you use your "baptism not needed" verses to explain the
"baptism needed" verses? Why dont you use the "baptism needed"
verses to explain the "baptism not needed" verses?
Mark 16:15-16 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the
world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth
and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be
damned.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee,
Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter
into the kingdom of God.
Acts 2:37-8 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in
their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles,
Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them,
Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus
Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of
the Holy Ghost.
Tcmc,
1. Oh so the verses does not say what I have mentiond, but it
says what you have mentioned, that it teaches that baptism is
required for salvation? So the same question is thrown back at you
also, why should your interpretation be more correct than mine?
See, it is not just an issue for Christians only, even atheists
like you also part of the interpretive problem!
2. Why are you so dead sure that baptism is required for
salvation and charge me with changing the verse? I did not change
the verse or explained it away, I INTERPRETED the verse and
explained it. And the thing is, you actually agreed with me
that baptism is synonymous with salvation! So why are you still
harping on the idea that baptism must precede salvation? You are
really one confused bloke or else just playing the troll! BTW, do
you baptise believers or do you baptised unbelievers? Answering
this question will give you an answer. I also told you that
one exception is enough to disprove the notion that baptism is
required for salvation. The thief on the cross was not baptised but
still he went to Paradise. Please explain this instead of
explaining it away. Until now you have not even given a response to
this.
3. And your throwing verses at me proves nothing, since I can
easily explained them and I have done so. In the early church, all
believers are baptised (with some rare exceptions as mentioned),
and belief is expressed by and through baptism. So this explains
Mark 16 and Acts 2. As for John 3, nothing in the context hints at
Jesus teaching about baptism. It is absurd of you to see water and
automatically think it means water baptism. Had Jesus meant water
baptism He would have told Nicodemus something like, "Yo Nick,
why you so daft? Why you think it means going back to the mother's
womb? It just mean I dunk you in water mah! Haiz...." So what if
other Christians tell you it means water baptism? They can't be
wrong? And if you say I am wrong, then you had better give me a
better exegesis, something you failed to do on many
occasions. BTW, one website I particularly like (doesn't mean
I agree with everything it says though) has this to say so please
read http://www.gotquestions.org/baptism-John-3-5.html
4. But here's the clincher to sum all this up. Whether you
believe baptism saves you or not is totally IRRELEVANT to the
command to be baptised. It's like debating whether you should stop
your car 10cm before the stop line or that your car overshot by
1cm, just stop lah, talk so much for what? Just obey and be
baptised, and this issue will never bother you. It only bothers you
if you disregard the command to obey for no good justification and
you are worried. But then again, as an atheist I don't think you
give two hoots about it. You are making this issue and hyping it up
just to put Christians in a bad light, tio boh?
And here's one scholarly article http://www.dbts.edu/journals/1999/McCabe.pdf that
suggests it has probably nothing to do with baptism or physical
birth at all. Interesting read.
