It is always easy to demolish strawman arguments and you have
completely ignored what I said. Instead you insist on saying that
the ancient people believed that and simply ascribed them to me. If
I deny the scientific explanation then you at least have a case,
but I don't. So please respond to MY arguments rather than attack
strawman points. That modern science owes its rise to the Christian
worldview is a well documented fact of history. You show me your
evidence that it is despite of and I will show you that it is
because of. Fair challenge to you, you up to it? As to the origins
of the universe, you again appeal to ignorance and a fallback on
scientism and naturalism. Appeal to future knowledge is moot. I can
also rebutt that by saying that in future science will prove that
God did it, so? Please stick to what we know now and not make a
fallacious argument from ignorance. As it now stands you are guilty
of a naturalism of the gaps argument. Which is to say, we don't
know how the universe made itself but surely no God did it, it must
be a natural process that science has yet to discover. If this is
not naturalism of the gaps then I don't know what is.
BIC: "Instead you insist on saying that the ancient people
believed that and simply ascribed them to me."
On the contrary, I've never said that you believe in a Sun God,
or a Rain God. You've missed my point by some distance. What I'm
saying is that modern Christians claim that God made the universe
and first self-replicable cell. I argue that this is no different
from ancient Christians who thought that God made the Sun, God made
the earth, God gave us rain, and so on. The ancients were wrong.
What makes you think you're correct.
BIC: "That modern science owes its rise to the Christian worldview
is a well documented fact of history."
Certainly, I've heard the argument that Judeo-Christian
worldview helped influence science, and there have been many great
clergy-scientists (e.g. Mendel) over the years. But I can't name a
single direct contribution from Christianity (rather than Christian
individuals) to modern science. Did the bible give us clues to
dissecting the atom? Or the secret of flight? Or the double helix?
If you've found the Higgs-Boson, you have to tell us, BIC.
BIC: "Which is to say, we don't know how the universe made
itself but surely no God did it, it must be a natural process that
science has yet to discover."
On the contrary, the only one who speaks with the language of
certainty ("surely", "must be") is you. I was at pains to emphasize
my ignorance. My point remains:
Unlike you, I don't claim to know the answer. Maybe the universe
made itself. Maybe we'll find that Godzilla gave birth to the
universe. Whichever the case, I do think that science is far
more likely to yield an answer than religion would. And chances
are, the more satisfactory answer is naturalism, as all the answers
have been since the Age of Enlightenment.
And this is really it from me. I'm too busy to be wasting my
time debating you, and your fellow Christians don't seem interested
in picking up the gauntlet. Besides, the Buddhism forum seems kinda
interesting too.
