Character of the Christian God

last SG · 2011-12-07T11:42:42+00:00

Nope.I am just curious about the Character of the Bible God, whether it is permissible in Christian Theology for an all-knowing, all-powerful God to "deceive...

Tcmc SG

Tcmc,

Perhaps you can think of it this way, evil people do not deserve to be told the truth because they have no moral claim to it. I tend to agree with despondent on this. God knows the beginning from the end. If someone demands you to tell the whereabouts of your sister so that they can rape her, you gonna stick to telling the truth to them and spill the beans on her? What are you going to do? People who are entitled to the truth should be told the truth. But to those who are not deserving of the truth, but hate the truth, they will want to live in a delusion.

BIC,

So in other words, there are some situations that would allow us to "sin" or in this case to lie, right?

despondent SG

to tcmc,

yes in a way cos God is all-knowing and he is the law giver...remember tat in creation, even the laws are created by the creator...cos he noes beginning to the end, he noes the final outcome of every process...

to demon bane,

nonchristians cannot accept cos they dun acknowledge God as all-knowing and as the one who gave the laws...to them, God is beneath the law...but christians believe God is above the law cos he gave the law...

despondent SG

tcmc,

we are nt allowed to ''sin'' cos nvr at one pt are we above the law...nvr at any pt do we noe beginning to the end...

Tcmc SG

to tcmc,

to demon bane,

despondent

But if you read BIC's answer, there is a situation where it is correct to lie.

And the situation is to lie when someone asks you where your sister is so they can rape her. Of course it's right to lie...and not tell the truth in that situation.

So BIC is correct to say that there are some situations in which its correct to lie.

Demon Bane SG

to tcmc,

to demon bane,

So like those crusaders who killed and murdered in God's name, they were in fact sinless and could still go to heaven ?

Tcmc SG

So like those crusaders who killed and murdered in God's name, they were in fact sinless and could still go to heaven ?

Demon Bane

Yes. I see your point.

You're asking if God can have exceptions to "cross the line" sometimes, then it would be ok for him to tell his followers to wage war and kill like in the crusades.

Is that what's bothering u?

despondent SG

to tcmc,

ok, i leave him to justify wad he said...cos i didnt say tat...

to demon bane,

are the crusaders God? did God personally appoint them to kill? they claim to be appointed but were they? note tat in those cases in the bible. either God did it himself or God specifically appoint ppl to do it...its like the judge pass the sentence, the executioner act on his behalf...

Demon Bane SG

Demon Bane

Yes. I see your point.

You're asking if God can have exceptions to "cross the line" sometimes, then it would be ok for him to tell his followers to wage war and kill like in the crusades.

Is that what's bothering u?

Yes, I'm afraid so....maybe my scripture knowledge is poor....any good answers to this issue ?

Tcmc SG

to tcmc,

ok, i leave him to justify wad he said...cos i didnt say tat...

to demon bane,

But in the bible, God also told his people to wipe out Amalekite children, women and babies? So weren't the crusaders just doing what God's people did in the bible?

What's the difference that cause you to say that God's ppl was right to wipe out amalek children but it was wrong for crusaders to do the same thing? I am curious. thanks

I am not concluding if you're right or wrong. I just want to know a christian's POV regarding this

BroInChrist SG

BIC,

So in other words, there are some situations that would allow us to "sin" or in this case to lie, right?

Tcmc,

I believe in a hierarchy of values. A higher value overrides a lower one. If withholding the truth to an evil man is what it takes to preserve the life of a loved one, then it is not a sin to deny the evil man the truth. But please answer my question concerning the scenario of evil man raping your sister.

despondent SG

to christians, the bible is evidence of wad God said...so since its in the bible, its clear God appointed them...

But wad the crusaders said, is it validated by any source? its nowhere in the bible too...also, nowhere in the bible is it stated tat God will continue to appoint ppl to kill until the end of time...

BroInChrist SG

So like those crusaders who killed and murdered in God's name, they were in fact sinless and could still go to heaven ?

Demon Bane,

This begs the question: Where does the Bible teach that Christians can kill or murder in God's name? Please give a specific teaching of Christ or the apostles to this effect. I know not of such a teaching. But if I am ignorant of it then please enlighten me.

Tcmc SG

to christians, the bible is evidence of wad God said...so since its in the bible, its clear God appointed them...

But wad the crusaders said, is it validated by any source? its nowhere in the bible too...also, nowhere in the bible is it stated tat God will continue to appoint ppl to kill until the end of time...

So lets say if someone includes the crusades into the bible, it's correcT?

BroInChrist SG

But in the bible, God also told his people to wipe out Amalekite children, women and babies? So weren't the crusaders just doing what God's people did in the bible?

What's the difference that cause you to say that God's ppl was right to wipe out amalek children but it was wrong for crusaders to do the same thing? I am curious. thanks

I am not concluding if you're right or wrong. I just want to know a christian's POV regarding this

Tcmc,

Tthe command to wipe out certain groups of people was given to a specific people for a specific purpose for a specific time. It is unwarranted of you to assume that this localised command should be universal across space and time. If it was then we should expect the NT to also continue to teach it. Eh, I thought you study the Bible deep deep? How come it still does not show?

Tcmc SG

Demon Bane,

BIC

Actually if you regard the OT God as Jesus Christ, then there are many OT passages that tell us about God "wiping out sinners" in His Name.

BroInChrist SG

So lets say if someone includes the crusades into the bible, it's correcT?

Fact is, it is not. So deal with it. If you have no case, don't try to concoct one. What's your intention?

Tcmc SG

Fact is, it is not. So deal with it. If you have no case, don't try to concoct one. What's your intention?

Just going by despondent's logic of "if its in the bible, its correct"

BroInChrist SG

BIC

Actually if you regard the OT God as Jesus Christ, then there are many OT passages that tell us about God "wiping out sinners" in His Name.

Tcmc,

Does God not have the right to use whoever He chooses to carry out His judgement on sin? What does the Bible says about the moral condition of the Amalekites and those who should be completely annihilated? You did your "objective" Bible study so can you enlighten us here? Or do you need me to expose your ignorance on this also?

Tcmc SG

Tcmc,

BIC

"It is unwarranted of you to assume that this localised command should be universal across space and time. "

I get you. It's acceptable for God to wipe out Amalek babies in the OT but not acceptable in the 11th century or now.

Thanks :)

BroInChrist SG

Just going by despondent's logic of "if its in the bible, its correct"

Tcmc,

Wrong. Don't assume that what's recorded in the Bible means it is approved or endorsed. The Bible records the many evil deeds of people, but this does not mean it approves or endorses evil. Get this right.

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