Reason/science vs Supernatural

last SG · 2009-12-09T19:04:45+00:00

Note that i did not give a quote, however the books of deuteronomy and Leviticus seems to be rife with these teachings. Precisely because of the new testamen...

Happyinfo2 SG

I am naively thinking the earth might take at least 100 years. Because the trees I see growing everyday will take my whole life to reach adult tree. So probably 100 years is my naive guess on the age of earth.

why is it documented a mere one day ?

Yours naively without science consideration,

laffin

PS: what is OT ?

So, we should change the Bible based on your personal naive thinking?

So somoene else suggested 1000 years, and yet there will be some with different figures...and who should we pleased?

So what if it's one day, one hundred days or one thousand years?

Does it change the fact that it is God who is the creator?

What science consideration you want to put in here?

OT - out of topic

gasband SG

I don't understand.

I ask a question.

Nobody can answer me.

I made a conclusion.

Some said I am illogical.

I ask a question again.

Illogical again.

I think the best statement is this:

"Faith means not wanting to know what is true" - Nietzsche

laffin

Hey I am a christian and normally I do not engage in such discussions on religions and faiths online and I do respect personal choice of belief but just to point out something here about your thought process.

You say you ask a question inside this forum, nobody can answer you, and so you made a conclusion. Is that right?

Now, by making a conclusion because nobody in this forum can answer your question is like going to a tribe deep in Africa and ask them do you know Breadtalk? And just because they dun know the answer or could not answer you, does not mean you can draw the conclusion that Breadtalk does not exist. Ridiculous it may sound, but I think you get what I mean.

Nobody can answer you in this forum on questions about God does not mean God does not exist. It only simply means nobody can answer you because they either do not know or they do not know. How would that translate into a conclusion otherwise?

Vice versa, does not mean if someone can answer questions, it means God is real. It just mean that person can answer the question.

So if you conclude that God is fake/not real/a hippie/a junkie or making any sort of conclusions just because people inside this FORUM cannot answer your questions, I suggest, and just a suggestion, refine your thought process.

going to a church and talking to pastors or going to apologetics forums would probably help you to "conclude" better and more credibly.

laffin123 SG

You say you ask a question inside this forum, nobody can answer you, and so you made a conclusion. Is that right?

Vice versa, does not mean if someone can answer questions, it means God is real. It just mean that person can answer the question.

going to a church and talking to pastors or going to apologetics forums would probably help you to "conclude" better and more credibly.

I am trying to find out more, if no one can explain here, perhaps we should discuss more about it here.

If no one wants to talk about it, fine, I go find the right avenue.

My objective is still: I am curious and hence I want to learn more about the world.

Hi happyinfo

Please don't OT me, let's talk more.

My science consideration is the report from carbon dating. I removed this idea totally and guessed 100 years should be okay. Okay, let's ignore all the days verses and earth creation and stuff, how can I feel the presence of god ? So far, I have not experience it.

laffin

gasband SG

I am trying to find out more, if no one can explain here, perhaps we should discuss more about it here.

If no one wants to talk about it, fine, I go find the right avenue.

My objective is still: I am curious and hence I want to learn more about the world.

Hi happyinfo

Please don't OT me, let's talk more.

laffin

Hey, its good to want to know more. But its not fair to make conclusions based on the responses here since this is a forum and a more social platforum rather than a religious authority.

I have never talked to you before and so do not want to make assumptions about you and your motvies but the fact remains that this is a social forum and will never be a good platform for serious or sincere discussions on these issues. Thus, of course you can still ask, but if you are serious to get answers, go talk to the people who are authorities on this.

Cheers!

laffin123 SG

Hey, its good to want to know more. But its not fair to make conclusions based on the responses here since this is a forum and a more social platforum rather than a religious authority.

Cheers!

Maybe we have to try to hold a serious talk here. Otherwise, this forum becomes very shallow.

On a side note: I find that sgforums.com has the world class standard discussion in public bus and train. It is amazing to read some subtle details of bus/train that I could never see myself. :D

laffin

laurence82 SG

this forum is very shallow from the first place

laffin123 SG

this forum is very shallow from the first place

Then I would like to change it to a serious forum.

laffin

PS: I am not paid by sgforums.com

laurence82 SG

Then I would like to change it to a serious forum.

laffin

PS: I am not paid by sgforums.com

people tried that for 6 years aledi

Happyinfo2 SG

Hi happyinfo

Please don't OT me, let's talk more.

laffin

How can you feel the presence of God when all you input into your minds are anti-Christians (or anti-God for that matter) stuff?

And even though you cannot feel His presence, it does not mean that God does not exist.....

To quote what you said: "Your mind can't be opened as you have pre-conceived" info such as those misrepresented facts you have been reading as the truth.

"Try 'opening your mind' in the strictest sense" and "to get you started, it is wise to study the origin of the bible and its history"

How else to study the origin of any faith but from their sources?

Look, if you are truely sincere and keen, you know where to go and there are more apporiate forum and discussions where you get better and more serious answers... and nothing beat learning from the source itself. Like I said, pm me if you are serious.

Well, if you are looking to to just says God does not exist without any way to back it up, then you should already know why this forum is shallow....

For most of the people like you, at best, they are not sure if God exist but choose to think He does not. That's fine but to make statement that God does not exist based on misrepresented facts, that's illogical and never "in support for REASON and EVIDENCE"

laffin123 SG

How can you feel the presence of God when all you input into your minds are anti-Christians (or anti-God for that matter) stuff?

And even though you cannot feel His presence, it does not mean that God does not exist.....

To quote what you said: "Your mind can't be opened as you have pre-conceived" info such as those misrepresented facts you have been reading as the truth.

"Try 'opening your mind' in the strictest sense" and "to get you started, it is wise to study the origin of the bible and its history"

How else to study the origin of any faith but from their sources?

Well, if you are looking to to just says God does not exist without any way to back it up, then you should already know why this forum is shallow....

As you can see from my previous posts, I adopted an open mind. You and gasband still skeptical of my intention. Let's be open and do it here, why the need of pm ?

I want to find out if supernatural beings exist. That's the very basis of faith. So far I have never experience it. If I cannot feel it, what kind of faith is it for me? If you invite me to your church/temple/mosque, can your priest point out where to feel a supernatural being? I don't think anyone here in this thread can confidently bring me there. If I don't feel it with your priest, I don't know what you want to say to me. If there is a supernatural being, I hope he will come out now and convince me now.

So I turn to reading. And I learnt more about religion origin. I came to know Darwin and feel very satisfied with his explanation.

I guess the discussion with you will lead to nowhere as you are skeptical of my motive. Whoever can convince me, I will follow your teaching. If it is so powerful, it can melt my heart of stone.

I still maintain "faith means NOT wanting to know more".

Luckily, I am a curious person who will keep on searching for cold hard facts. You can carry on label me as illogical person. My conclusion is maintain "no supernatural being whatsoever" and I have no regret labelled as a illogical fool. If a supernatural being come to know what I am typing now, please help me not to be illogical now.

If I am in an african tribe, guess Breadtalk will never fly to me. But if a supernatural being can perform miracle, come to me now, why wait to reveal yourself. If not powerful to perform miracle, then I prefer to satisfy with Darwin's teaching and it is still strengthening/correcting by cold hard facts everyday now. It provides far more REASON and EVIDENCE than what 'faithful' people here have been dodging me.

If you still question my "support of REASON and EVIDENCE", please show me the evident of "FAITH" now. I can't experience a god, I need someone to provide me an evident.

You are welcome to ask me any question of evolution and natural selection, I try my best to answer you.

sincerely

laffin for REASON and EVIDENCE

laffin123 SG

people tried that for 6 years aledi

haha, you joined here on 2003 and that's made you the person who has been doing for 6 years.

haha, pass the baton to me, I continue your fine work here. I shall carry on as long as I can.

laffin

Hal Georgie SG

the debate never ends.

lets not challenge each others' beliefs / assumptions / facts / etc.

there are other things that are more worthwhile to do with life. just enjoy existence while it lasts, rather than question existence itself

Happyinfo2 SG

deleted

Happyinfo2 SG

As you can see from my previous posts, I adopted an open mind. You and gasband still skeptical of my intention. Let's be open and do it here, why the need of pm ?

So I turn to reading. And I learnt more about religion origin. I came to know Darwin and feel very satisfied with his explanation.

I guess the discussion with you will lead to nowhere as you are skeptical of my motive. Whoever can convince me, I will follow your teaching. If it is so powerful, it can melt my heart of stone.

I still maintain "faith means NOT wanting to know more".

If you still question my "support of REASON and EVIDENCE", please show me the evident of "FAITH" now. I can't experience a god, I need someone to provide me an evident.

You are welcome to ask me any question of evolution and natural selection, I try my best to answer you.

sincerely

laffin for REASON and EVIDENCE

You make me laughing......no puns intended.
And no I am not skeptical about intention but your actions and posts speaks for itself.
Faithless means refusal to face the truth....and you got it all wrong when you quote faith means not wanting to know more…..
And no, I am not inviting you to my house, temple, church or ask anyone to speak to you.... you think too much.
PM because to test your sincerity and honesty......
I did not label you illogical but reasons and evidence based on the fact that you made your decision even when you did not understand is self explanatory.
Darwin's misrepresented the Bible and I have given you links before.... It's up to you to read it with an open mind...something you claimed you do have but never displayed at all - at least to me.
And seriously, I am not dogging anything but so far none of your tribe is able to give proof that God did not exist..!! And why quote people who misrepresented the facts?
How to show you how to experience God when your mind is closed so tight as you post has indicated? And again, your inability to feel or experience does not means that God did not exist.
I will not ask you any question since your "facts" may be out-dated as proven before (and trust the pie is delicious) and also your conclusion make even a 5 years old laugh! Maybe when I am bored and needed a joke, I will ask you....like how have science prove origin of life? So far not yet....but will find out one day.....ha..ha..ha..

laurence82 SG

haha, you joined here on 2003 and that's made you the person who has been doing for 6 years.

haha, pass the baton to me, I continue your fine work here. I shall carry on as long as I can.

laffin

tsk

u can, but i dont think it will work

u cannot talk sense to senseless people

laffin123 SG

1) I have tried my best to open my mind. Do you mean I need to warp my thinking that god is looking at me from some place quietly? If yes, tell me so, then I try to feel god presence.

2) Yes, you are right, science is constantly answering the origin of life and we will find out one fine day. Preliminary studies: the universe is about 4 - 5 billion old. Trillion and trillions of chemical reactions took place since, and one chemical reaction successfully give birth to one living cell. As time slowly evolve, one cell become an intelligent being like us aided by natural selection. This is the origin of life. On why the universe exist, it is not very clear, although it has been forecast the universe will contract after expansion. Then it will collapse to a singular point and big band cycle continue again. This is my best ability to explain simply as possible. Hope to hear anyone helping and correcting me.

3) Care to tell me your opinion of the origin of life ? thanks.

laffin faces the HEAT squarely and will not dodge any science question.

laffin123 SG

tsk

u can, but i dont think it will work

u cannot talk sense to senseless people

sure laurence82, please continue your style. It is a pleasure to read your post.

I shall continue my style.

laffin

Louis dave36 SG

you post at the wrong forum lar. the people you are debating with are extremist / fundamentalist in their views. nothing you said will ever convince or get them to open their minds. I can see a couple of them here making ridiculous claims. anyone can make a claim without substantiating with facts. its pointless discussing with them, as it is very obvious they are ultra defensive. they perceived it as an attack on their religion. in the past like maybe 1000 years ago, if you dare to challenge their faith, they will probably find justification killing or stoning you to death.

Fortmax777 SG

"It is far better to understand the Universe as it really is than to pretend to
a Universe as we might wish it to be"
- Carl Sagan, astronomer, astrophysicist

Hi,

How well do you think humans know the universe?

Remember all scientific theories including big bang theory are theories. i.e. They are accepted until something shows it to be false. They are not gospel infallible truths.

Some scientists have explained that Genesis account of creation can be explained by Einstein's theory of relativity. i.e. time is not absolute so the one day in Genesis could mean a couple of million years. But again there is no way to verify this theory.

All I can say is that I believe in the God of the Bible since HE has touched my life in many ways. I know that HE is beyond our underatanding and our science is nothing compared to his knowledge!

See http://www.monergism.com/ to read more about this God

God bless you all

laffin123 SG

the debate never ends.

lets not challenge each others' beliefs / assumptions / facts / etc.

there are other things that are more worthwhile to do with life. just enjoy existence while it lasts, rather than question existence itself

Hi Hal and Louis,

my personal opinion "Truth is more important than happiness".

my 2 cents

laffin

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