Views abt Joseph Prince from New Creation

last SG · 2009-08-07T10:28:53+00:00

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Happyinfo2 SG

Still, since it IS being done, you cant say that we dont do what we preach... And just because you dont hear of it, doesnt mean it isnt done...

the reason we dont directly build a shelter or a home is because there are already many such institutions in place... All we need to do is channel resources to those existing charities... Like the BB Sharity Gift Box Donations Drive, the myanmar relief fund, the tsunami and earthquake funds, etc etc...

Thats what we are doing! one of the differences is that since there ARE hospitals already in operation and are adequately equipped for the job, we just provide the financial aid..

..............................................

We are in modern times... all it takes is a simple phone call and consider it done..

If they are truly in need of aid, they wont fear coming to the church for help because we have given testimonies of people receiving aid...

Exactly... the problem is, sometimes, we have instances of : "I have not heard or know that ncc is providing shelters, homes or anything to help those who need them...."

We have never publicly announced to the world what we are doing for others, everything is announced to the church members only during services....

Exactly like I said earlier, "since it IS being done, you cant say that we dont do what we preach".......just do the mininal and that's it. Let's make making money our piority.....

As a Church, doing God's will should be the first piority and the lame excuses we have heard many times is that : "there are already many such institutions in place... All we need to do is channel resources to those existing charities..."

Why? Because there is no money to be made from doing so....

And since there are already so many churches, why even bother to start another? Why not preach in the church the pastor come from or join one?

And which hosital does ncc provide financial aid to?

Sometimes, we get carried away and think that in modern times, every thing is a phone call away or an e-mail away........ Even in a affluent society like Singapore, go round and checck yourself and you will see people who live with no water and electricity and even in the park! How to call ncc or take a bus to suntec?

Read the papers or ask your MP and you know many people simply do not know where to turn to to seek help......Wake up!

Jesus did not sit in one place waiting for people to come to Him......He reach out to them....

I don't think any churches have been actively telling the world what they do....they too, only tell their congregation what they are doing and motivating more people to join the various ministries and contribute towards helping others...

Certainly, I have even heard from ncc goers that they get award from President Nathan for giving money to charities....so much for trying to tell me ncc is humble.....for the "little" that they have done, they are sure proud of it.

Happyinfo2 SG

That is a terrible lie, dont ever believe it if someone tells you that... We have always said, only tithe if you have a revelation.. no revelation, dont tithe.. If this is not your church, dont tithe to us... if you are not employed, dont tithe... if you dont want to tithe, dont tithe..

we do NOT check individual tithing records apart from several occasions,since it is between you and God... those special occasions are 1) you are being considered for leadership, we have no desire for leaders who are God-robbers.. and 2) if you are to be given voting privileges since if your gonna help in making a major decision, some indication that you are a regular member is required...

If you dont want to be in the church records, a simple letter will suffice, if not, then drop in the envelope without your i/c number..

Again, let us look at the verse in its context... the verses that follow are: ²⁰ Store your treasures in heaven, where moths and rust cannot destroy, and thieves do not break in and steal. ²¹ Wherever your treasure is, there the desires of your heart will also be.

It is equally a terrible lie that you try to paint with a volunteer reaching out to the needy because you try to justify why ncc is not doing it.

Like I said before, tithing is not taught by Jesus and many main stream churches do not teach them. Certainly, only prosperity gospel preaching mega churches do so and rasied many eyebrows cause they way the money is spend. Don't think that mega churches is super rich cause there are churches that are richer despite no tithing being taught ......you find that out yourself....yet they do not create the same hooha because of the way the funds are used.

My understaning is JP preached only 4 times about tithing in the past years. IMO, that's 4 times too much. I also know that it is at cg level that this is preached (cause I have friend in ncc who are asking me to go) and to come and think of it, tithing (the way being taught at mega churches) is like buying 4D or toto......someone will win big but most remained poor....the one who got rich? God blessings....the one who won nothing, have faith and continue to buy.....your day may just come. At the end, it is the company running it that is assured of winning and thus can pay staff well.......Sure, they also organised trips to visit the less fortunate and give to charity.....

So why bother in wanting more and more riches when you don't even know why there is a need for it......

Happyinfo2 SG

Neither will I... However, ever since I have followed this pastor( i'm not saying he's the only good one... there are many good ones like i said..) I have experienced a change in my life for the better. There are results to show. I am not boasting or putting a feather on my cap, but if i were to compare my non christian days with who i am now, I'd say God is doing a wonderful job through Ps Prince...still doing, not complete yet haha.. i still have some areas that need polishing...

Ha...you said "Neither will I" yet can you tell me where is JP trained ?

People from many other faith experienced the same thing as you do in ncc so I don't see any difference......

In actual fact, though you said you will not, you have already been "blinded". It is like you will consult any one who can tell you something they read from medial journal......to your liking even if you know (or not sure) if he is trained doctor.

Happyinfo2 SG

Er... NCC is the 2nd largest in SG...only CHC is bigger.. everyone else is at least half or less.. so their problems are on a different scale, also they have more viable options..

there is no feasible solution available to house everyone... currently even with Singapore Indoor Stadium, we had to turn away 200 people due to space shortage at the last Combined Christmas Service...

We now have 4 services while occupying Rock Audi, Gallery West, 2 Overflow rooms...

So it is definite that we will still have multiple services even after moving to [email protected] we have a current attendance of 20000++... I assure you, there is a need..

Hmmm...now it seems like you take away the consideration 0f 30 years cap........and I take it you don't know it as a fact.

By the way, I dont think chc is the largest......and if you read the other threads, you will read that Catholics is the largest with more than 300,000 and many more demoninations have more than 20,000 people.

Yet, they don't need to build something like one north......and the same goes for the other faith....like the Muslims for example.

So, again another lame excuse....

And what about considering the advantages of many churches building scattered around the island to help everyone that I mentioned earlier? Not just Christian Churches do that, other faith too.....maybe because making money is not their main agenda? Perhaps...

Happyinfo2 SG

For exactly the same reasons Takashimaya does not let other people know their pay systems.. it is simply good/common practice.. However, it is perfectly fine to email the church to request a look at how they make such decisions.. Go ahead and let me know what they say...

You should not put a secular profit making company as comparison with a church. Again, I am not sure if Taka is listed on the stock exchange here (maybe in Japan) and you may like to know listed company do reveal their top men salaries and bonuse.

Maybe, ncc can learn from the government with regards to that. There are some valid points that noahnoah which is worth considering......does a pastor need a conti car and semi-d? I believed that the apostles do not and in fact preached living simply......

I have no problems with pastor getting paid...in fact well paid. But how much is well paid? I believe most churches do pay their pastor well.....enough for them to ensure that their family live well.....not luxury..... Maybe using average Singaporean household as a guide is better in this sense...imo.

Like I said....think.......why they do not reveal to the congregation on how the borad decide to pay?

It is strange that you have no desire to know how it is done ? Why not you as an ncc member asked and then show the reply to us?

Happyinfo2 SG

Is not the Father's business the church? If not, then why would He send Jesus to us?

We dont NEED to make more money, rather, we just want to be good stewards of it... and investing it is the proper duty of a steward, as mentioned in Jesus's Parable of the talents of gold... It has already exceeded our expectations many times over... we passed the enough mark long ago... now, we are doing it to see God's promises come true, the ones where He says " Test me now in this, and see if I will not bless you so much as there will not be enough room to hold it!" ... as a testimony to others

One north is not solely used for worship.. In fact, Rock Productions rents out the Audi to NCC, and on days where NCC is not using it, it is free for everyone else..

On a personal opinion, i think the thing we did was to use a loophole in the law to allow us to get a building of our own that meets our need..

NCC has to pay Rock for using the Audi. Rock must pay taxes on rent received. Although Rock is owned by NCC, Rock cannot just transfer the money back to NCC as and when it feels like, since they are still seperate entities...

I think somewhere along the line you have thought i'm missing the point again but i'm just expaining the way these things work.. if you know more than me, teach me.. Although business law is really one of the hardest to explain... trying not to get confused myself..

We have also repeated time and again that One North is not a place of worship.. it is a civic and cultural zone with retail options.. and we do not raise funds by claiming what it is not.. the people just gave even when we announced the truth publicly...

I am not sure but it seems like you hit jackpot when you think that ncc is "use a loophole in the law" I leave it up to you to think and decide if that's a right thing to do.

(that's the point about one-north and rock.....not if that's a church...it's not and that's a fact we all know).

Another point, loop hole to do what? I know you argue about the necessity of a place but in earlier parts, I think I have shown you why this may not be necessary the best solution (if we take away making money consideration) and perhaps, other ways are much better in terms of serving the people of God.....IMO, it is soley making money that was the concern.....

Does that have anything to do when the board sits to decide on pay issues?

God send Jesus to save us.....not make money! And the business of the Church is to spread the Good News and not make money!

I have already explained imo the best way to be the light and messenger of Christ (which I think you agreed....if I do not mistaken). And the Church that preach the true gospel should do just that.

Happyinfo2 SG

We may still be small, but we will not remain small.. like i said, we are still growing.. and we will grow..

As I said, I was just using your yardstick to measure ncc and it does not seems good.....

So you can't say for sure that ncc preached "unadulterated Gospel" then....especially if you are not sure if JP has proper training......

Like I said in the earlier part, the way to know if true gospels are preached is not just what is being preached....but also what is being done. And done in accordance to the teaching of our saviour Jesus Christ.....

You said:

"Now, our heart is for the people, and for the things of God. Otherwise we would not be preaching Faith, Hope and Love week after week... In any case, this verse was more a personal instruction. If a man is willing to honor God with his tithe, then money does not have a hold on him, and his heart is for God. A man who keeps every cent for himself is evidently storing up treasure for himself.."

and that's exactly why Churches went out to help and not keep 90% for themselves and make more money....and more money for what?....and even though it already exceed their target many times......and when is it going to stop? Greed has no ending.....perhaps.

No thithing does not mean not giving (as I said before) and 10% tithing is not necessary......and it should not be taught as God's way to "return" to you and prosper you cause God enrich everyone and prosper everyone in His own way and standard.

Happyinfo2 SG

can you list a few examples? Google doesnt turn up anything... lol..

What examples? Church that does not set up commercial companies? Maybe you can name those that does other than ncc or chc....and you can look through the website of the main stream churches....

Happyinfo2 SG

I have enjoyed this extensive discussion very much... the interesting posts here have given me a great opportunity to crack open my bible and read where i normally might have missed.. thanks alots... haha.. But i think we got alot of points covered already to make a rather thick FAQ... I do intend to wrap it up in the next 3 to 4 posts if possible.. I've said my hearts content and have been blessed.

Glad that you enjoyed the exchanges....I am in no position to teach you anything. I only hope at least you will open your mind and continue to do some searching for the truth. I am not saying everything is wrong with ncc....

At least find out why people are reacting the way to the church, what they are doing, what they are teaching.....as I said all warped version have bible verses to support them. You and I can have our own interpretations.....so who is right?

Find out what other demoninations are teaching, doing and why they do so? Why is money not so important outside mega churches? And yet they are around longer and still stronger than mega churches?

Why some are considered cults? They too have bible verses to quote.....and explained. And they too have following in tens of thousands....

The real way is to seek and you will find......and never shut your mind. The truth may hurt but it is cross that we can carry proudly to follow Christ and be His light and messenger.

P.S. Never pass off something as untrue or present it as if it's a fact when you actually do not know......

Happyinfo2 SG

ALSO, we have never , EVER taught that if you leave church, you go to hell... in fact, if you ever leave, God will still never leave you...

Not once in 5 years + all those CDs have I heard any of those things.. so definitely not from NCC.. hehe... maybe from somewhere else? If I am wrong, just let me know which sermon, as all our sermons are dated and archived.. without fail... A simple search and the truth will come out =)

Just curious.....so if someone leaves the Church, still get to go heaven cause God still loves them? Is this what once saved always saved is about?

Happyinfo2 SG

Nope... The Bible doesnt say that... haha... If you dont give, perfectly fine.. NCC believes that if you dont want to give, please dont give.. We dont force.. If you give, then drop it in knowing that your giving is a seed, and that seed will multiply... Not once in NCC will you hear : If dont give, God wont bless you..

You said in above " If you dont give, perfectly fine.. NCC believes that if you dont want to give, please dont give.. We dont force.."

and "Not once in NCC will you hear : If dont give, God wont bless you.."

Happyinfo2 SG

Churches who do not teach on tithing are robbing the people, and robbing God as stated in Malachi. As for us, MINIMUM 10% is going out.. it is usually more...

Then you said in above : "Churches who do not teach on tithing are robbing the people, and robbing God as stated in Malachi."

Putting this and what you said above, I am confused....are you saying ncc is telling their congregation that is "perfectly fine" if they choose to "rob the people and God" is they feel like it by not tithing? and that ncc "don't force" , don't mind and will allow their congregation to "rob God" ?

Isn't that a serious sin (to rob God) ? So what exactly is ncc's stand on this?

You are now implying that many main streams Churches are committing a serious sin because they teach their congrgation to "rob God" by not enforcing tithing....???

Happyinfo2 SG

If you dont want to be in the church records, a simple letter will suffice, if not, then drop in the envelope without your i/c number..

And in above you said : "We have always said, only tithe if you have a revelation.. no revelation, dont tithe.. " So it is ok to "rob God" when you have "no revelation"? and what really is "revelation" to you?

While you maintained that ncc don't force on tithing, yet you said :

"we have no desire for leaders who are God-robbers.." and

" to be given voting privileges since if your gonna help in making a major decision, some indication that you are a regular member is required..."

meaning if a ncc member who do not tithe, ncc will consider him a "God-robber" and not a "regular member" even though he goes weekly to pray to God.....

So, so much for telling us that " if you are not employed, dont tithe... if you dont want to tithe, dont tithe.." cause when one is not employed and no money to tithe, ncc consider you a "God-robber" and I wonder if ncc will have any desire to extend help to such "God-robbers".............?????

I know you do not represent ncc's official stand but you do reflect their teachings....in some ways...

So with above, I tends to feel (imo) that ncc do "force" tithings as who wants to be known as a "God robber" and not a "regular member"? What you says just does not matches up....

SPDCP SG

Lemme listen to the CD again first... So that I'll be able to answer you to the best that i can.. =)

charlize SG

I am just wondering, do these new age pastors have any formal training in theology and doctrines etc? I suppose priests in the orthodox christian denominations have to go for years of training before they are allowed to preach.

I understand that this pastor used to be doing IT before he started his own church.

Anybody knows?

SPDCP SG

Ps Prince is considered a graduate from Rhema Bible College, whose founder was the late Kenneth E. Hagin..

And he is NOT new age =)

As for the questions in red/black, lets go through them!

Just curious.....so if someone leaves the Church, still get to go heaven cause God still loves them? Is this what once saved always saved is about?

Lets start with an analogy. Suppose a sinner tells the devil: "I dont want you in my life... get out..." Will the devil leave? No! Then how come some churches are teaching that the instant a Born Again Child of God feels jaded and decides to leave church, Jesus, the one who died for him, disappears just like that?

Is not Jesus greater than the devil? Is He not love personified? Is it not written, :

Romans 8:38-39 ³⁸For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, ³⁹neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

That includes the person himself.. God is not one to do things halfway... once you ask for salvation, He will give you Salvation, capital S..

The reason why we wont force tithing is because we want the congregation to choose to honor God... You all know by now God never intended for us to be robots.. There is the gift of free will..

What we are saying in the end, is that when you choose to make God first, He will bless you greatly.. If you dont, He still blesses you, but the one who honors Him truly makes Him happy..

It appears I have made a mistake.. Non Tithers are still considered full members, however, they are non voting members.. Its not such a big deal, since its really rare that we need to vote on something.. But we are firm on not having a non tither as a leader... If you cant be faithful with the least, who will trust you with the true riches?

Why do we say "if no revelation, dont tithe" is because we dont want you to go back to the tree of knowledge of good and evil.. God doesnt want men to tithe mechanically.. Melchizedek did not bring bread, wine and a AK-47 to Abraham saying : TITHE!! or else..

Why do we say "if no income, dont tithe?" because tithing is giving the firstfruits of the harvest. when there is no harvest, the season is for sowing, not tithing. Its the season for receiving, for being fed.. thats why we will help..

So all in all, we do not condemn our members for the inability nor the lack of desire for God's ways because it is a reflection of their current level.. some plants are not ready to blossom yet, but need cultivation...

Now, i began posting in this thread in order to clear some doubts, but it seems like i created more instead.. I think therefore it would be wise to keep silence for as long as the Spirit leads, for it was fun, but now, if i'm not helping the situation, then let me step back, and let the results speak for themselves in the end...

May peace and joy pursue you always. Amen =D

Happyinfo2 SG

Lemme listen to the CD again first... So that I'll be able to answer you to the best that i can.. =)

I believed that it is more beneficial to listen to a wider range of preaching and understand the true Word Of God.....If you keep brainhwashing yourself with the same stuff, you will still be stuck with it.

Listening to others will not confuse you or side track you because the truth can stand the test and temptations.......Don't shut you mind especially when you are still so young.....

Good Luck.

Happyinfo2 SG

I understand that this pastor used to be doing IT before he started his own church.

Anybody knows?

As far as I know, all main streams churches ensure that only properly trained pastors are allowed to preach. The training takes quite a few years .....

This pastor? I am not sure.........

Happyinfo2 SG

Ps Prince is considered a graduate from Rhema Bible College, whose founder was the late Kenneth E. Hagin..

And he is NOT new age =)

So did he preach before being trained or get a diploma after he started preaching and teaching......

What is "considered a graduate" ? Did he or did he not?

Happyinfo2 SG

Is not Jesus greater than the devil? Is He not love personified? Is it not written, :

That includes the person himself.. God is not one to do things halfway... once you ask for salvation, He will give you Salvation, capital S..

I have heard JP preached on this salvation thingy.....but you should think clearly and deeper on this......

We don't even need to ask for our salvation because by the grace of God, we "already have it" by the finished works of Christ on the Cross. It is available to ALL mankind....

And I think many mistaken with the "once saved always saved" thing imo. Salvation is the best hope that God has promised to us as Paul said in Roman 8:24

"In hope, we already have salvation; in hope, not visibly present, or we should not be hoping -- nobody goes on hoping for something which is already visible. 25 But having this hope for what we cannot yet see, we are able to wait for it with persevering confidence."

So as Christians, we know that God will save us as He promised. But can one loose his salvation? IMO, yes and does that means God has break His promise? No.

Salvation comes with conditions.....our Faith. It is not just what we says (I believe in God etc..) but what we do (not about going to Church and irritating others with some rotten evangelisation).....It is about listening to His commandment and following them....

As Christ said, to love our God and our neighbour as how He has loved us. How do we love our God? He said in MT 25 which we discussed.....and if there is love, there is hope. Thus, our life as Christians should be the light and messengers of Christ....our Christian life should be one that is truely converted in our hearts to reach out and love our brothers and sisters.....It is those that are poor, marginalised, neglected and needy that need us,....not making more money....And we can help only when we have love in our hearts....our works will show our love.

As Paul said in Ep 2:10 "We are God's work of art, created in Christ Jesus for the good works which God has already designated to make up our way of life."

You can read James chapter 2 on what happens when one claimed to have faith and yet not living out one's faith.

Sorry but not here to argue about salvation but just to clarify with you.

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