$ 25,000 to build a Church

last SG · 2008-06-10T12:54:36+00:00

That is another perspective. ??i dun remember any of God's works/words involve collecting $$??just how would one feel especially a 1st timer when s/he enter...

dumbdumb! SG

I feel more can be done with the funds that the church receive. I believe if the funds are used for outreach work, I believe God would be equally as pleased rather than build a nice church building.

Like recently I heard, one of the megachurches actually asked their people to contribute to their building fund when their church is already so big and nice! Is it really necessary? Wouldn't it be better to split the church up, appoint pastors to lead them and move to other places in Singapore? By doing this, we can reach out to masses even more effectively! I've always thought, the smaller a church, the better. I come from a small church, but we relate to other churches as well. And my pastor really interacts with every one of us personally, even making time to meet for lunch!

If a church gets too big, how can the pastors effectively relate to his or her members? A church = spiritual family. I've heard from friends that their pastors don't help them as much (i'm not talking about helping financially) or have the time for fellowship.

I don't know what megachurches are interested in doing anymore, even if they say its God's work, it doesn't seem like it to me. It's like there is ulterior motives. Anyone from a megachurch care to share?

if God isn't happy with what they do, they will account for it ah. but if God isn't happy with what they do, He wouldn't have used them at all. difficult to say la, right?

domonkassyu SG

lol.. what God thinks of their worship.. may differ from your personal opinion.

the JW are heretics because of their.. teachings, not because of their buildings, i believe.

tts why i say.. how sure are you that they are big AND not doing God's work? christians will prosper if they abide in Jesus and He abides in them. it's a christian's individual responsibility to keep abiding in Christ, the church can help with the growth, but the church isn't responsible for the growth.

of cuz will differ from my personal opinion mahz..i aint the guy up there.but certain stuffs kinda standard like having a more serious mood when worshipping. its missing from my CH visits.

JW are heretics for teachings yes..building i never heard of..jus added JW cuz i tink they are a queer group of christians. saw one poster from the EH sticky by laoda abt JW invitation..nothing wrong with it..but dun knw wats the fuss about it.

as for teachings, they too like me dun believe in trinity..otherwise all pretty good and proper teachings. btw dumbx2, u saw my response to your john word is god??

dumbdumb! SG

of cuz will differ from my personal opinion mahz..i aint the guy up there.but certain stuffs kinda standard like having a more serious mood when worshipping. its missing from my CH visits.

as for teachings, they too like me dun believe in trinity..otherwise all pretty good and proper teachings. btw dumbx2, u saw my response to your john word is god??

nope nv see. wasn;t home yest

domonkassyu SG

nope nv see. wasn;t home yest

gd luck finding it..i oso 4gt i post where liao

Chin Eng SG

of cuz will differ from my personal opinion mahz..i aint the guy up there.but certain stuffs kinda standard like having a more serious mood when worshipping. its missing from my CH visits.

as for teachings, they too like me dun believe in trinity..otherwise all pretty good and proper teachings. btw dumbx2, u saw my response to your john word is god??

JW or Jehovah Witnesses are considered a cult by mainstream orthodox Christians.

domonkassyu SG

JW or Jehovah Witnesses are considered a cult by mainstream orthodox Christians.

eh..yes i know that already? they fell out with the church cuz they find the teachings differ from the bible and couldnt accept it rite? the protestants also fell out with the church because of similiar reasons rite?

Chin Eng SG

i am glad you know.

there is a difference between disagreeing on the Bible and rewriting the Bible to suit one's view.

http://www.carm.org/jw/cult.htm

http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Cults/jw.htm

the disagreement is beyond the "trinity" issue.

domonkassyu SG

i am glad you know.

there is a difference between disagreeing on the Bible and rewriting the Bible to suit one's view.

http://www.carm.org/jw/cult.htm

http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Cults/jw.htm

the disagreement is beyond the "trinity" issue.

i have not check out the links u gave, jus back from lunch..i had the chance to compare a JW bible and a normal NIV bible that most churches uses..other then the common words choices. the more significant difference is JW used God's name instead of titles like lord etc..

btw, can tell me what other significant differences are there? or all are found in the links?? thanks

domonkassyu SG

im almost done goin thru the two links..mighty twists of words..

domonkassyu SG

it appears the writers of the 2 links know alot about JWs.

Chin Eng SG

it appears the writers of the 2 links know alot about JWs.

while I cannot speak for the rapidnet website, I personally like to refer to CARM. In some of the articles there, CARM can be slightly extremist in its inclination but to me, the credibility rates pretty high.

like all websites found, they are only presenting THEIR personal views (even those done with research). nonetheless they are invaluable as resources for one to compare and contrast.

in the Singapore context, you definitely do not want to go the JW way.... many go to jail because of their stance toward National Service.

davidche SG

To see things in another pespective, building a Mega Church is a form of reaching to the masses; a testimony of the works of God.

Chin Eng SG

To see things in another pespective, building a Mega Church is a form of reaching to the masses; a testimony of the works of God.

this may not necessarily be true... however this is what mega-churches want you to believe.

domonkassyu SG

like all websites found, they are only presenting THEIR personal views (even those done with research). nonetheless they are invaluable as resources for one to compare and contrast.

in the Singapore context, you definitely do not want to go the JW way.... many go to jail because of their stance toward National Service.

what better way to compare and contrast then putting 1 self into it??i studied their works before..i studied mainstream before too..

as for in SG, no the guys dont go jail because they are JW. they go DB. 3 years.but after that no reservice wor..not like us.. =(

their stand against NS is becuase they do not want to take up arms and learn killing. which is actually very in harmony with the bible. their neutrality with politics also..

too bad the govt dont like that, thats why they twisted the law to place JW in trouble in SG.

domonkassyu SG

To see things in another pespective, building a Mega Church is a form of reaching to the masses; a testimony of the works of God.

if the 1st thing mega churches do is not collecting $$ and more $$..then i believe is a testimony of God's works.

Chin Eng SG

what better way to compare and contrast then putting 1 self into it??i studied their works before..i studied mainstream before too..

as for in SG, no the guys dont go jail because they are JW. they go DB. 3 years.but after that no reservice wor..not like us.. =(

their stand against NS is becuase they do not want to take up arms and learn killing. which is actually very in harmony with the bible. their neutrality with politics also..

too bad the govt dont like that, thats why they twisted the law to place JW in trouble in SG.

for one, it is not necessarily to put one self into it to compare and contrast, if this theory is true, one will need to spend one's whole life comparing and contrasting all religions.

DB, jail, realistically there is very little difference.... but if you think it is different, ok with me.

their so-called "harmony" is a half measure. want to go the whole hog? be like the Amish.

the government thing... i am aware of your anti-government stance over lots of things, but i don't believe the law is "twisted". the government is willing to compromise. look Seventh-Day Adventist, they are also anti-killing, but they do National Service as long as they do not handle guns.

domonkassyu SG

for one, it is not necessarily to put one self into it to compare and contrast, if this theory is true, one will need to spend one's whole life comparing and contrasting all religions.

DB, jail, realistically there is very little difference.... but if you think it is different, ok with me.

their so-called "harmony" is a half measure. want to go the whole hog? be like the Amish.

i agree the be in the situation is not the best way..though i already started a quite a few religions studies and stay on christianity for quite sometime. so i tot it is good for me to see all sides of christianity.

DB-jail thingy, i was trying to play the fool lah..like microsoft that gives technically correct answer but totally useless..hehe

as for govt..im not really anti govt..just dun like the way they do things..as for twistedness...they have outdone themselves in twisting the constitutional laws of freedom. the JW stand against NS was both against killings/war and also taking a stand on govt sides.

7day adventist willing to go NS without handling arms is similiar to JW stand on killing. but JW has went the xtra mile in not takin sides with politics. hence not serving NS and kena jialat jialat frm SG govt lor.

gee..didnt know u noticed me.. =)

Chin Eng SG

gee..didnt know u noticed me.. =)

i notice things... though i may not comment on them.

what is the practical advantage of going against government laws? afterall, aren't we told to "render to Caesar what is Caesar's".

unless we truly have a despotic government, we ought to obey the laws - our personal likes and dislikes have very little to do with the law as a whole. Also there is NOT ONE single country that has laws that will please everyone, so disliking how things are doing, in reality, is not a big thing on the grand scale of things.

in reality, what is "the constitutional law of freedom"? for that matter, what is "freedom"?

true freedom is an idealistic but impractical philosophy that many people with youthful mentality embraces. one definition that i have just found:

"Freedom is a comprehensive term that includes not only the right of free choice, but the ability to exercise the right of free choice."

to me, this is just bold rhetorics... what it means to me is: i can choose to drive as fast as i want in the direction i choose regardless of how dangerous it is to others.

having said that, i am not in the habit of making political comments which is why i seldom post in speakers corner.

back to the religious aspect of this discussion:

...so in your opinion, we should make the extra mile? noting that to some, this extra mile involves strapping explosives on their body...

domonkassyu SG

i notice things... though i may not comment on them.

what is the practical advantage of going against government laws? afterall, aren't we told to "render to Caesar what is Caesar's".

in reality, what is "the constitutional law of freedom"? for that matter, what is "freedom"?

true freedom is an idealistic but impractical philosophy that many people with youthful mentality embraces. one definition that i have just found:

"Freedom is a comprehensive term that includes not only the right of free choice, but the ability to exercise the right of free choice."

to me, this is just bold rhetorics... what it means to me is: i can choose to drive as fast as i one in the direction i choose regardless of how dangerous it is to others.

having said that, i am not in the habit of making political comments which is why i seldom post in speakers corner.

back to the religious aspect of this discussion:

...so in your opinion, we should make the extra mile? noting that to some, this extra mile involves strapping explosives on their body...

hehe...i like your points..

sounds like im a JW here..but nope..at least not nw..as for paying back caesers coin, JW do pay taxes and are very law abidding so much that (i mentioned this b4) LHL likes them if not for NS issue..in this NS thingy, what we actaully do is serving the nation..this in their view is the same as pickin a side in the human govt.

and of cuz no 1 govt can please everyone cuz humans are imperfect.

as according to constituional law, it is clearly stated that citizens of SG have the freedom of choice with regards to worship.in extreme debate, it actually allows even satanic worships if we were to the law strictly.

also,constitude laws are the core of laws and no lesser laws can overwrite it. but the govt here has done it lor..tats y i say twisted their very law.

the illustration you gave is correct on its own.total freedom leads to chaos. hence when God gave us freewill, he also gave us laws. however,the govt gave us little freedom and also twist the law to govern the freedom..get my drift?

as for the extra mile done by JW and done by certain moslems are extreme opposites so cant actually phrase like what u had. for one, JW have been known to be totally peaceful and docile and never willing to pick up arms. or they would had done so during WW1 and WW2 without so many JWs dying.

as for the moslems extremists, they are well known for killing already. little wonder to wear strap ons ya? jus like a sheep (JW) and a wolf (moslem xtremists) 2 ends of extremnity ya?

Chin Eng SG

also,constitude laws are the core of laws and no lesser laws can overwrite it. but the govt here has done it lor..tats y i say twisted their very law.

actually constitutional laws CAN be overwritten to reflect and to react to changes of the society....

...but i think that the argument should be whether such changes are legal or not.

as for the moslems extremists, they are well known for killing already. little wonder to wear strap ons ya? jus like a sheep (JW) and a wolf (moslem xtremists) 2 ends of extremnity ya?

i look at it this way, and i don't pretend to be expert on law or the constitution of Singapore....

in article 15 which states:

(1) Every person has the right to profess and practise his religion and to propagate it.

(2) No person shall be compelled to pay any tax the proceeds of which are specially allocated in whole or in part for the purposes of a religion other than his own.

(3) Every religious group has the right —

(a) to manage its own religious affairs; (b) to establish and maintain institutions for religious or charitable purposes; and (c) to acquire and own property and hold and administer it in accordance with law.

(4) This Article does not authorise any act contrary to any general law relating to public order, public health or morality.

i think clause 4 overrides everything the precedes it. therefore on the issue of religious freedom, if it contravenes a threat to public order, public health and morality, there is a basis to come down hard on those who violate this law.

the example of JW and Islam.... so the issue really isn't about going the "extra mile", but what the "extra mile" entails.

to some Christians, the extra mile is avoiding food condemned in the old testament.... to others, the extra mile is marrying more than one wifes (i am not even talking about Muslims here).... so which one you think the government is going to slam?

btw, how old are you?

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