what happens to non-christians after death

last SG · 2007-10-04T10:00:34+00:00

I think we have fairly answered the question of the threadstarter. I know there are disagreements. It will be endless to go on about. I don't think we wish t...

sillyme SG

Well, if you are happy with your life now, that's good. I am also happy with mine also Smile

sillyme SG

I cannot see the difference between what I just said, and what you said in BWB.

Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
to trust first and then find out for yourself the truth for yourself.

Icemoon SG

You want to discuss "lord" ah?

I can do a running commentary on the term as used in the Old Testament, starting with "The Lord said to my lord .." Wink

Chin Eng SG

couldn't agree with you more.....

folks like SIS wish to come in to be the saviour of Christians but no Christians asked to be saved.... again Laughing

Chin Eng SG

You may interpret that God view and treated men as slaves - but this is just an opinion.

This question is not similar to the first one. God treating men as slaves and Christians treating God as their master are not the same thing.

Christians are to be servants of God, not slaves.

Servants/Slaves two entirely different concept.

Chin Eng SG

Like what I tell my students, I can give you my opinion.... as a matter of fact, because of the different level of understanding of Sunday School teachers, we can only offer our understanding of scripture.... you need to note that Sunday School teachers are NOT Bible scholars.

Sure everyone can answer science questions.... but would you agree that there are varying level of difficulty in such science questions? If your science questions is on the respiration system or the circulatory system, my P5 son can answer you too. However when we attempt to answer questions like the origin of the universe, wouldn't you agree that this is a shade different from a P5 science book?

Sure, when I believe in something, everything should make sense.... to me.

It is no different from you believing in something, which make sense to you.

Nonetheless because we are two very different people, at least give each other the leeway to believe in different things.

stupidissmart SG

Well, if you are happy with your life now, that's good. I am also happy with mine also

Ok. I won't do potshot at it

You want to discuss "lord" ah?

I want to discuss whether does god expect us to be slave to him

Christians are to be servants of God, not slaves.

Servants/Slaves two entirely different concept.

Wat r the difference between the 2 other than the spelling ? Do they have to obey god to every word ? Do they have to go through torture if they do not obey ? Do god have the right to take their lives if he want to ?

If u say true to the above 3 questions, then u r just trying to colour the words to make it seems nicer

People who do bible studies class generally have studied the bible and have a higher level of understanding of the bible compared with people who do not do such studies. Wat is more a teacher for the class. Otherwise wat is the use of such classes ?

How come u r giving me the feeling tat u just want to void all the answers made by all the christians in the forum ? If u think u r not qualified enough, then why don't u raise the question to a priest or a father and ask them for their reply and post it here. If they r not qualified then I have really big doubts why they r religious leaders

Chin Eng SG

Slave
Slavery is a social-economic system under which certain persons known as slaves are deprived of personal freedom and compelled to perform labour or services. The term also refers to the status or condition of those persons who are treated as the property of another person or household. This is referred to as "chattel slavery".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave

Servant
A domestic worker, domestic, or servant is one who works, and often also lives, within the employer's household. Servants are distinguishable from serfs or slaves in that they are compensated, that is, they must receive payment (and, following labour reforms in the 20th Century, benefits) for their work. They are also free to leave their employment at any time, although socio-economic conditions and laws relating to working in a foreign country may make that difficult.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servant

....but i am sure you are more than capable of doing your own research. therefore i believe all you want to for me to write something and you will jump into any loopholes, as per your normal style. Laughing So households in Singapore employ Filipino maids..... or slaves......??? I am very sure you can tell the difference.

There are many references in the Bible pertaining to the servanthood of the followers of God, if you can find any references in the Bible that talks about followers of God being slaves, please show.

In the context of a class, the teacher IS a person with a higher level of understanding of the Bible compared with people who ARE IN the class. A forum is not really a class per se. I am not here to compare whether I have a better understanding of the Bible to, say sillyme, or vince, or ben. Neither do I have the need to fight with you whether you or I are smarter. I can offer my opinions to those willing to listen. But from where you are coming from, anything that is written will end up being another fault finding session by you. I do not challenge your belief or your right to believe. It's your own life.

Whether I am qualified enough or not really isn't the issue. This is NOT counselling class. This is a Christian-themed forum, again I say, I (or anyone else) can offer their opinion, but if by offering any opinion, it turns into a flaming session, then there is really no point at all to continue further. No one will change anything other than raising one's blood pressure.

In the first place, I don't usually have QUESTIONS to ask, so I don't need to consult any priest, pastors or fathers. People ask question, I can share my opinion, like any chit chat session.... so can you.... but again, if it's going to all end up with statements like "Tat's stupid" or "you're a bigot" or "you are delusional" then the dialogue will have ceased to be meaningful or edifying.

Truth of the matter is: whatever "qualifications" we may have matters to nothing in this forum. Even if I say that I am a Bible scholar or I have a doctorate in religious studies (which I am not), you are not going to let up are you? Laughing What you need, I believe, is not what Christians want to say, but for people to agree with you, isn't it.....

ADDITIONAL POINTS - Do you, SIS, feel that your questions are answers, or that there is anyone out here capable (or qualified) of answering your questions? Obviously no. So that being the case, why not you consult a priest, or pastor, or father of any church of your choosing?

Because by continuing here, you are either: implying that the Christians here are able to satisfy your need, or by continuing here, it will satisfying your goal to paint Christians into a corner.

So to you specifically, you truly want answers? Go see a a pastor.... No one individual here can give you the answer that you want.

So let me ask this question: for folks like yourself, why do you see the need to continue to question Christian doctrine? Sure, your answer will be that you don't see logic in such doctrine.... but shouldn't that be, you also won't see logic in buddhism or islam as well? You almost never enter these forums to pose your questions. Don't you admit that you still do have deep hatred towards Christians? If not, why bother?

Chin Eng SG

.....but we are totally going OOT liao. Laughing

stupidissmart SG

....but i am sure you are more than capable of doing your own research. therefore i believe all you want to for me to write something and you will jump into any loopholes, as per your normal style. So households in Singapore employ Filipino maids..... or slaves......??? I am very sure you can tell the difference.

Ahhh... but u have not answered my questions on the following

Do they have to obey god to every word ?
Do they have to go through torture if they do not obey ?
Do god have the right to take their lives if he want to ?

If u look at filipino servants,
1) They do not have to obey every word i say, such as having sex or killing others who r infidel

2) they do not have to experience torture from me. They can report to the police if we do tat

3) obviously we cannot kill them

But for slaves, u can do the above Rolling Eyes I think putting the modern context to 5000 years ago is wrong. In fact I was wondering is there such a thing as servants and not slaves then

If u r a science teacher, i expect u to have a good foundation of science or a maths teacher to have a good foundation in maths. Nobody is asking whether r u the best of the best, but r u knowledgable enough.

Since tis is a christian themes forum, u should expect non believers to be in. Other christian forum also face tis issue. Furthermore the mood is amicable. I don't see flaming

Do you, SIS, feel that your questions are answers, or that there is anyone out here capable (or qualified) of answering your questions? Obviously no. So that being the case, why not you consult a priest, or pastor, or father of any church of your choosing?

My questions r genuine questions. I expect people who think a lot into the religion to have come out with the answers for the questions. Why not consult it here ?

Because by continuing here, you are either: implying that the Christians here are able to satisfy your need, or by continuing here, it will satisfying your goal to paint Christians into a corner

In fact, I expect the christians to come out with reasonble answers so I felt there is a reason why they believe in it. If they have a reasonable answer to it, they will not be pushed into a corner.

So let me ask this question: for folks like yourself, why do you see the need to continue to question Christian doctrine? Sure, your answer will be that you don't see logic in such doctrine.... but shouldn't that be, you also won't see logic in buddhism or islam as well? You almost never enter these forums to pose your questions. Don't you admit that you still do have deep hatred towards Christians? If not, why bother?

To be truthful, I find lesser flaws with buddhism because they have a golden clause saying "if u think it is wrong, don't believe in it". I can find out 100 problems with their beliefs and they can just throw them out of the window with no problem at all. I do talk about muslim belief as well. The questions I ask in here can be applied to muslim as well be cause they r similar in many ways.

SturmDerSchatten SG

Now, really, friend, that would be pushing it a bit too far. It's understandable that it would be difficult to try and talk people out of believing in what they believe Trust me, I've tried it. My Christian friends and I have had role-play conversations about what one would do and say to destroy our faith. It never works.

It's not that Christians don't question. In fact, I think those who are not in for the "Shortcut to salvation" and "Accept God and He'll let you meet hot girls" parts think a lot more. I won't say I think a lot more than the unkers here, but I do my best. "Why does this happen?", "Has God created the Laws of Nature as a means of governing all things in this Universe?", "Why has God given us free choice [read: NOT free will] even if it means it may cut down on His omnipotence?" are questions I tend to ponder daily. Rest assured, I haven't lose faith with the only temporary answers (somewhat like in Science) I have derived from then.

Chin Eng SG

up to you.... as i'd said before, you can choose to define things in anyway you want seeing that you only wish to define it at the disadvantage to Christian doctrines. If you wish to feel that believe in God is slavery, fine with me. There is not one single character in the Bible that is flawless, except for Jesus. Name me one character in the Bible that obeyed God 100%. God did not destroy Abraham, Isaac, Moses and David when they disobeyed Him. So are they slaves or servants?

bear in mind that my Sunday School students are primary and secondary school children.... so maybe you can tell me if i am knowledgeable enough for them.... also, the common denominator is the Bible, sharing with them on the Bible is sufficient enough. In your case, seeing that there is no common denominator and that you do not agree that the Bible is the Word of God, there is nothing that I can share with you that you may find helpful.

No where did I say that I do not EXPECT non believers to be in. There are many good non believers, Ah Lau, Herzog and Ice are among those. Of course there is the occasional challenge and banter, but none of the name calling associated with, perhaps yourself (in the past) and some of those I rather not care to name. Therefore, one need to look into the intention of non believers who post in EH. I think you already know why you post, as much as you might deny the flaming part, your tone will inevitably lead towards that path.

On the assumption that they are really genuine questions, do you admit in pure conscience, that you intentions are truly good...??? If they are truly good, and I say that I am not interested, will you still walk away??? I think not. Wink

Also, do you harbour any hopes that a bunch of non-scholars are able to answer these questions?
How many of such questions that you'd asked had been answered in the past?
Discounting the Bible, how many of these questions had Christians been able to prove?
Seeing that it is likely that there are no answers to these questions, why do you still continue to ask?
If you know that the folks here cannot answer your questions, why not seek your answers to those who can match your intellect?

I believe in the past, many reasonable answers were given. However, I do not think that you feel those answers to be reasonable. If you ask me why I believe in God, and my answer is I believe God is real because the universe had to be created by a supreme being.... is this reasonable enough to you? Of course not, you will then go a long discourse as to why there should be no creator etc etc.... so no end, and to you no reasonable answers.

Well, if you think that Christian is wrong, don't believe it.... Laughing and for whatever questions you asked, I throw them out of the window.... reasonable enough?

I happen to believe that Christianity is right, so I believe it.... reasonable enough too? Wink

Nonetheless, it does not take much to note that your posts in the other forums are minimal, if any.

SumOne SG

If you are unwilling, of course it makes you unhappy. Especially if you feel what you do is ‘forced’. But if you enjoy what you are doing and are comfortable with it, is it slavery?

noahnoah SG

i believe this world is created by a supreme being too

stupidissmart SG

First I got to clarify my point tat I do not say tat believe in god is slavery, but god treat men as slaves. Furthermore, god did not destroy Abraham, Isaac etc even when they disobeyed him. However god did send non-believer to hell, set the rules in the OT, destroy sodom, kill the family of job, nearly wipe out the world in noah, kill the many tribes to clear the way for moses. So r they slaves or servants ?

Also, do you harbour any hopes that a bunch of non-scholars are able to answer these questions?
How many of such questions that you'd asked had been answered in the past?
Discounting the Bible, how many of these questions had Christians been able to prove?
Seeing that it is likely that there are no answers to these questions, why do you still continue to ask?
If you know that the folks here cannot answer your questions, why not seek your answers to those who can match your intellect?

I am just wondering why your strategy is to say tat every christian in tis forum is not well versed in the bible Rolling Eyes My opinion is, if an answer cannot be given or doubts cannot be cleared here, u can just conveniently push the reason to lack of knowledge.

To be frank, u r right tat the answer is not reasonable to me because it is an assumption Rolling Eyes It is like the people in the past who think tat there r spirits in trees just because they do not understand it. I think the basis for the 2 beliefs stemmed from the same source, which is just assuming. Anyway I guess I will not ask more about it and just provide my viewpoint

Well, if you think that Christian is wrong, don't believe it.... and for whatever questions you asked, I throw them out of the window.... reasonable enough?

I happen to believe that Christianity is right, so I believe it.... reasonable enough too?

ok lor. Anyway I guess I have outlived my welcome here and I will dissappear again.

If you are unwilling, of course it makes you unhappy. Especially if you feel what you do is 'forced'. But if you enjoy what you are doing and are comfortable with it, is it slavery?

Going back to the main topic, people who do not believe in god go to hell. Isn't tat forcing people to believe in god ? Furthermore, have u read about my 3 points on why the relationship between god and men r master-slave relationship ?

SumOne SG

If you don't believe in hell or heaven in the first place, then this concept of having to believe to avoid hell is irrelevant anyway.

Furthermore, have u read about my 3 points on why the relationship between god and men r master-slave relationship ?

Yes, but I just choose not to go into detail. Anyway the points I wanted to bring up were simple. And not necessarily addressed to you only.

Chin Eng SG

...and I thank you for your genuine opinions. Wink

Chin Eng SG

If you think that God treats humanity as slaves, please take it up with Him. But if you think god does not exist, that no issue what --- it's just a "Christian concept"

Actually i don't know where you got the idea that I'd said that"tat every christian in tis forum is not well versed in the bible" I only said that I, CE cannot answer your questions because the common denominator is missing. The common denominator is whether the Bible is the word of God or not. I also said that through these few years, not many answers to your questions are considered correct or acceptable.

Sure.... because you'd never accept such an answer because your view is quite fixed.... myself? I don't really care about what the other people do, whether they worship trees, or they burn offerings on the 7th month.... it's their business and their belief, logical or illogical. These people have their rights to choose whatever belief they want. I will never ever condemn them as wrong.

Actually in almost all beliefs, bad people to to hell..... so by saying that, are we also saying that we are setting standards of "morality" that if not followed, will doom the sinner to hell?

You statement would only make sense if the concept of "God" is real. Meaning that the master/slave concept is true insomuch that there is a God.

If there is a God, then wouldn't it be stupid to question God's precepts?

If there isn't a God, whatever master/slave/sadist/masochist/overlord/insignificant fool relationship does not really exist.

Icemoon SG

hey .. only Christianity preaches that hor .. the other two monotheistic faiths don't. Rolling Eyes

gasband SG

i think christianity is really essential in this world man. What would people do if they had no christianity to argue about Laughing

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