An article on Purgatory

last SG · 2006-05-24T17:23:58+00:00

The issue is not whether there is a Purgatory. We can argue till the cows come home and still we have two sides of the story. My thinking is simple. God's sa...

Repented John 2 SG

Well ok. Thanks for your view.

But like what someone said, if we havent confessed & repented fully before we die? Then how?

vince69 SG

can a christian still commit sin? the answer is yes, the flesh is still weak, that's why we need to realise that God does not condemn us when we fall, so we can find the strength from Him stand up again, else we will just remain there in the fallen state.
whether a person is an apostate or not, this we cannot be truely certain, a true believer with the Holy Spirit will normally show the fruits of the Holy Spirit in their lives, namely; love, peace, joy, hope, patiences...

hope this helps Smile

Repented John 2 SG

Is one of the fruits righteouseness or holiness? If so, can a sinning Christian be a Christian since Holy Spirit produces righteousness or holiness?

vince69 SG

Galatians 5:22-23 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

righteousness and holiness, not in the list of fruits of the Spirit according to Galatians. the things is we do not and cannot depend on ourselves to gain righteousness and/or holiness, we need to be clothe in Christ's righteousness and His holiness.

Ironside SG

Only Christ can live His life. Stated in another way, only Christ can live the Christian life, no one else.

That statement is a big problem to us right? I am Ironside, you are John. We cannot live the Christ life. we got a problem....because God requires of us to live the Christ life.

But wait........didn't it happen that when we trusted in Christ alone for salvation that His Spirit, Christ Himself came to indwelt us? Yes, Christ is in us!!!!!!!!!!

What we need to do is to let Him live His life in us. Stepping aside and letting Him live through us.

".............For to me, to live is Christ,..........."

Col 3:4 When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.

[Note: 'who is' is not in the original that's why it is italicized. it was just supplied by the translators. It should read then: 'When Christ OUR LIFE...'...By the way they are guaranteed future glory inspite of their imperfections. REad it again.]

Ga 2:20 "I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me."

Let Christ live His life in you. Yield to Him [another way of saying: 'Walk in the Spirit'] Know that you [your old self enslaved by sin] died with Christ that you are no longer a slave of sin [positionally]. Walk your position. Live out your position in Christ. Don't listen to your feelings. If you have trusted in Christ alone for salvation, then you are free my friend. Keep on coming back to this truth [about your freedom in Christ]. Put this truth into action.

Be led by the Spirit. Let Christ live His life in you. Make this a habit.

We sin everytime we don't live out our position in Christ. Everytime we choose to sin the Holy Spirit will be grieved. His ministry in your life as a Christian will change from enabling and empowering to convicting us of our sin.

siginah SG

Purgatory is from the Latin word meaning 'purification'.

This doctrine does not deny that salvation is completely the word of God and based on His Mercy through Christ.

Take a look at yourself and the many sincere, devout Christians that you know. How many of us can honestly say that we have already attain the same nature as God? After accepting Christ, do we not still have our faults and shortcomings? Do we not fall into sin from time to time?

Catholics believe that salvation means eternal life in communion with the Holy Trinity. Since the Trinity is perfection, it is not possible that there be communion with that which is imperfect.

If one believes that many people who are saved are still imperfect when they die, then this doctrine makes sense as it means that there is a process of purification to build up the soul's capacity to handle eternal life. To use an analogy, if a person has been locked up in a completely dark room for years, exposing him to light suddenly make harm his eyes. Similarly, the soul that has not already been perfected in this life will not have the capacity to handle the communion with the Holy Trinity.

Whether purgatory makes sense or not depends on your belief in what salvation consists. Some accept Luther's 'snow-covered dung hill' position of inputed righteousness, that Christ's grace covers up our sins without actually changing the state of our souls. In this schema, there is indeed no need for purgatory.

The Catholic position is that the grace of Christ is an actual infusion of supernatural life into a soul that has accepted His mercy. And since the soul continues to live in this world, it can diminish or even use the grace through its own sins, thus requiring constant forgiveness and repentence. In this schema, purgatory makes sense.

regards,
siginah

ben1xy SG

this is my 2 cents worth, not mine actually.. since i am quoting from Professor Scott Hahn, a former pastor who converted to the Catholic faith. anyway, he drew a verse that he felt described salvation

10By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds. 11For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames. 1 Corinthians 3 (NIV)

this is from KJV:
14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

particularly verse 14-15

vince69 SG

Ben, can share a bit on the verses/message means to you or what you think Professor Scott Hahn is saying? thanks

gasband SG

Yeah I have my opinions what verses 14-15 actually means but maybe its good that you draw us to what sort of learnings you or pastor Scott had gotten from these 2 verses.

ben1xy SG

sorry for the late reply... had a long day out today.

anyway, he used it to describe purgartory not salvation.. that was a typo on my part. i will need to listen back to his audio CD to give u a definite answer.. i 'll get back to u in a few days regarding this

ben1xy SG

gas... would u like to share ur opinions on these 2 verses? i'll do up mine after i've listened to the CD

Honeybunz SG

Ha! I finally have something agree with you. yayyy

SingaporeMacross SG

+1.

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