Gnosticism

last SG · 2006-04-17T00:24:29+00:00

dunno where to slot you in the Five Tiger Generals of Liu Bei. Huang Zhong is old, but his archery is top. Maybe just like you, who can yi zhen jian xue (on...

casino_king SG

Can you also bring the electron microscope and the proof of the existence of atoms as we understood it now with the time machine? Yes. So what is your the stupid point you are trying to make again?

casino_king SG

At that time, they had proof that big things are made up of smaller things and as you said it was easy to prove that because all you have to do was to chop up big things and show that it was made up of smallere things....

plo30360 SG

don't need philosophy, theology and logic. (though I subscribe to these three for my belief also)

True. May I add these 3 justify my continued belief. Personally, I belive because I had a tangible experince of God 7 yrs ago.However, i doubt this discussion would entertain such experinces.

The problem of suffering (which is a reality to everybody) already whack the belief in God half dead liao.

Not so true, suffering actually proves God indirectly.

Wait he brings you to Sentosa Underwater World then you suck thumb

You know my point is not to denounce the existence of whales Laughing , I'm suprised you don't see where that point of mine is leading to.

You have evidence of God but it will not be presented the way we have evidence of whales? If God exists why cannot you have evidence of God presented the way we have evidence of whales? Your God is is a coward in hiding? You God is a so small and cannot be seen? Your God is a kid who like to play hide and seek?

Different things are proved to be true differently.However, that perhaps will change in time.

You want proof that God is not real? That is so easy, there is no proof that God even exists and things that do not exists are not real.

Your proof that God does not exist is because there are no proofs?
Laughing Surely, you have some proofs to show that God does not exist?(I know every atheist has at least 13 of these)

Icemoon SG

Even the flintstones could see big things are made up of smaller things, so no, this is not even a proof. Laughing

Their idea of atom was the smallest indivisible unit of mater. Very small and indivisible. This they cannot prove. And they weren't taken seriously 'cos they had no proof! Just like casino_king liddat .. you don't take God seriously 'cos you claim theists have no proof!

Icemoon SG

No .. I can't. Do you know how heavy is an electron microscope? The time machine cannot tahan lah. And not all time machines are literally 'machines'. Some are just time portals where you jump into a hole in space and presto!

The point becomes stupidier 'cos the person whom I'm trying to convince is even more dense. Mr. Green

Icemoon SG

True. May I add these 3 justify my continued belief. Personally, I belive because I had a tangible experince of God 7 yrs ago.However, i doubt this discussion would entertain such experinces.

That's why I said if we minus any miraculous experience, it is more logical to believe there is no god.

Not so true, suffering actually proves God indirectly.

This is warped when you try to argue for a benevolent God. Wink

Actually the problem of suffering is part of the problem of evil. Well, they go hand in hand in whacking the theist position.

You know my point is not to denounce the existence of whales , I'm suprised you don't see where that point of mine is leading to.

Well .. but he has yet to see your proof of God. Me too. So we dunno what you're up to.

Different things are proved to be true differently.However, that perhaps will change in time.

He won't accept this position. He wants God to be as evident as the whale in documentaries, books and photographs.

Chin Eng SG

As I had said all along.... no point lah...

And I think I've said this before: the issue is not whether is evidence or not, but what one constitute as evidence.

Icemoon SG

I'm even more radical. If any of you read the philosophy article I posted, I wanted to overturn his evidentialism mindset. Laughing

Chin Eng SG

Laughing I wish you well in your endeavour.....

Icemoon SG

Rolling Eyes

Laughing

casino_king SG

It is no wonder that you believe in fantasy and delusions as truth. Nobody in their right mind would accept the existence of atoms unless somebody comes up with the proof thereof.

It is so simple, I accept the existence of whales because I am given all the evidence of the existence of whales. I do not accept the existence of God because those who believe in God cannot show me the evidence like the evidence for the existence of whales. Yet I am asked to "talk" to this imaginary being and revolve my life around it as if it existed.

casino_king SG

For somebody who is stupid enough to suggest that a time machine can be built is not stupid enough to imagine a time machine as big as a space craft? OMG

casino_king SG

And I suppose that to prove the existence of imaginary beings, the only way is to provide imaginary evidence?

plo30360 SG

This is warped when you try to argue for a benevolent God.

Actually the problem of suffering is part of the problem of evil. Well, they go hand in hand in whacking the theist position.

Not really. It really depends on how you view these:

1.Who caused evil(suffering)?
2. Whether all suffering is evil
3. Evil(suffering) exists therefore God does not

Well .. but he has yet to see your proof of God. Me too. So we dunno what you're up to.

He said he only belives if there are witness, colloborating evidence etc,

I know of at least 2 billion people who will profess belief in God(isn't this considered as colloborating evidence) Laughing .

Of course, I'm not expecting any atheist to see things this way. Very Happy My response was the typical atheist response in reverse.

He won't accept this position. He wants God to be as evident as the whale in documentaries, books and photographs.

Which is why I stated for and of God.

And anyway he has yet to show his proofs why God does not exist apart from these:

1. God does not exist because there are no proofs(I'll be happy to dispute this once you have got logical arguments in order)

Don't just keep telling us there are no proofs, show us the proofs for the non-existance.

2.I think God does not exist therefore God does not exist(This can't be helped Laughing )

My whole point of contention has been, his religious belief that atheism is based upon 'facts'.

Allow me to help you get started, here are the 13 basic atheist fundamental proofs why God cannot exist:

Proof 1: The theodice problem

Proof 2: Heisenberg's uncertainty principle

Proof 3: The ontological evidence

Proof 4: Occam's razor

Proof 5: Some things are impossible to do

Proof 6: God's omniscience restricts His free will

Proof 7: God cannot be almighty and allow free will simultaneously

Proof 8: God must be created so why does the universe need a Creator

Proof 9: If God created time and space, he must live outside of time and space. Thus he is non-existent.

Proof 10: God has never contacted me. He must not exist.

Proof 11: God cannot be involved in our universe if He stands above our time dimension

Proof 12: If God existed, prayer would have already changed the world into the best possible world.

Proof13: Only things that can be sensed with the five senses are meaningful to discus. Therefore, all discussion about God is meaningless.

You choose which one you want to discuss or any sub arguments related to the above.

nightzip SG

In ancient TAO, there is a saying that you cannot "see" the wind, but you and "feel" it. You need "air" to breathe, but yet you cannot see it around you.

These also applies to electroncs etc in olden days, and certainly applies to the existence of GOD. Idea

Icemoon SG

But since there were no proofs for atoms 2000 years ago, does it mean they don't exist then? I think you have yet to answer this question.

Icemoon SG

I'm much more creative than you.

You're still stuck in the time machine as spacecraft version.

I already progressed to the time portal in Xun Qin Ji (A Step into the Past) liao. Laughing

Icemoon SG

Guess where does this come from? Wink

Icemoon SG

You start a new topic lah.

Then let everyone whack you left right up down. Laughing

Wait .. I must find SIS back first. Mr. Green

Chin Eng SG

at the end of the day, anything one does not accept can be deemed as imaginary....

if I look at the skies and believe that a creator god made all these, am I imagining a creator god?

note I am not even talking about the Christian God.... I am merely speaking that beyond science, there is realm that science cannot explain. If you cannot acknowledge that there is a the realm of supernatural then there is nothing else to talk about.

So let's stop wasting each other's time and get on with some constructive in our separate paths.

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