Original Sin (Of Angels and Man)

last SG · 2005-12-20T23:26:13+00:00

There's a cheemer version of it.

M©+square SG

/pat pat.

Calm down.

Cheers

laurence82 SG

The 'Albert Einstein' words itself, also beg another question...whose god?

breytonhartge SG

dunno, had it emailed to me... but it does not really matter who said this in the end, the crux of the whole thing is that evil is the absence of GOD.

M©+square SG

It does matter to Lau because the originator of this quote decides if the statement is credible or not.

Like if we'd to say this world is evil, it doesn't mean God is absent.

Cheers

Chin Eng SG

I agree....
'cos we'd seen too many "testimonies" that are not proven or proven to be false floating in Christiandom... When such testimonies are being repeated, Christianity loses it's credibility.

I've heard too many of such stories coming from the pulpit too. Overzealous preachers like to pass on ill-informed stories as truth.

While we should all be encourage to share stories of inspiration, we must not neglect to check on the credibiity of the source.

breytonhartge SG

Let me qualify that MC, evil is the result of what happens when a man does not have God's love present in his heart.

Just asked my friend who sent it to me...

The World English Institute and Bible Correspondence School. They have it on their website.

M©+square SG

I've heard a preacher from a church quoting a science discovery and then continued on preaching the reality of hell.
My goodness....Whatever happened to discernment of truths.

A church which SingaporeMacross is familiar to.

The Siberian Scientists who Drilled into Hell-Fiction!

Summary of eRumor:
Russian scientists conducting deep hole drilling experiments in Siberia break through the earth's crust at more than 14 kilometers. They find it unusually hot at that depth (2,000 degrees F). As a part of trying to listen to movement in the earth's crust, they drop a microphone into the drilled hole and are horrified when they realize they are hearing the voices of millions of people crying out in torment. Terrified, they decide to abandon the project, but not before a bat-like apparition arises from the hole and gives them a message.

The Truth:
This is the combination of an urban legend and a hoax. The original story of the deep hole drilling in Siberia made the rounds of tabloid newspapers in the early 1990's. Some researchers have theorized that the story somehow got started from an authentic deep hole drilling project, but that has never been proven. That original story included the account of breaking through the crust, hearing the voices from the hole, and shutting down the drilling operation. The plot thickened when a Norwegian school teacher named Age Rendalen decided to embellish the story with the description of the bat-like creature coming out of the hole. He did it purposely to see whether a religious television program would accept the story at face value without checking it out, and they did. TruthOrFiction.com has first-hand information from Mr. Rendalen.

M©+square SG

Okie can we agree on this?

'evil is the result of what happens when a man does not have God's love present in his heart.'

What you're saying is

1)When a man does not have God's Love in his heart, what he does is evil?

2)Define God's love present in his heart?
A pre-believer or believer will have God's love in his heart?

3)What qualifies God's Love present in a man's heart?

I suggest we'll get this clear before we move on.

Cheers

breytonhartge SG

My Reply:

1 John 4 (King James Version)

1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

4Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

5They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

6We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

7Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

8He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

9In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

10Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

11Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.

12No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

13Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

14And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

15Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

16And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

17Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

18There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

19We love him, because he first loved us.

20If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

21And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

Chin Eng SG

Brey, I don't get it.
What has 1 John 4 got to do with MC's queries.

As far as I can tell the passage that you'd quoted has got to do with false prophets.

Instead of quoting an entire passage without attempting to explain, why not share your insights on MC's questions?

For that matter what has the passage got to do with your earlier statement that "evil is the result of what happens when a man does not have God's love present in his heart." Seems that the implication in your statement is that Godless people has no propensity to do good - am I correct in paraphrasing your statement?

M©+square SG

I was going to reply. Till i see this post. Thanks.

Nice paraphrasing.

Cheers

breytonhartge SG

Good is a relative term, how do you define the definition of good? According to men or according to God?

Psalm 53:1-3
1The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

2God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God.

3Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Matthew 19:17 (King James Version) also Mark 10:18 & Luke 18:19

17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

CE, of the whole passage only one verse talks about false prophets... read the passage carefully.

laurence82 SG

True, and more than that.

The excessive information that one can find on the internet means I simply can go yahoo or google information I want to support my stance. Then there is issue of credibility. Everyone seems to quote any researcher favourable to their views, and we arent able to dig through the pile of information to assess its credibility. End up, the aforementioned forumer might seemingly put up a 'credible' front.

More importantly, the background of the person who made the quote has an impact to the meaning of the quote. Albert Einstein,, even if he is an atheist as some said, at the most is a Jew, or Jewish by faith. We wouldnt want to misconstrue his meaning to support a christian notion of a god, supported by the concept of a holy trinity.

Hence, my question then was, whose god? What is the definition of god here - a being, a concept, a personal thing, a term which actually means good, rather than a supernatural being etc etc etc..

laurence82 SG

By the way, i forgot to add, its important you link the quote to the right person. Dont do stuff that are injurious to someone’s character, reputation and viewpoints. In academia, its a heinous crime.

breytonhartge SG

Whose God? My God the God of the Isrealites, the God of those who believe in Jesus. There is only one GOD. The rest are all idols from a Christian perspective.

laurence82 SG

Wait wait, since you said it came from Albert Einstein, how can he mean the god of israelites and god of believers of jesus at the same time?

This is what I mean when i said the background of the guy who made the statement is equally important so as not to be misconstrued by people who twist fact to their own gain.

Tsk tsk

breytonhartge SG

FYI, albert einstein was a JEW. So obviously also and isrealite, so therefore, GOD of the Jews and the Isrealites, the God in the Torah, the God of the old testament and the God of the New testament.

laurence82 SG

Again, God of the Isarelites AND the God of the believers in Jesus?

I dont think he support the notion of the holy trinity, jesus and the new testaments

Again, tsk tsk

You just dont understand the fallacy of your statements, do you?

breytonhartge SG

By the way, the Christians worship the GOD of Isreal. It is immaterial whether he believed in the Holy Trinity or not, it is the same GOD. What? you think Christians worship another GOD? Duh!

laurence82 SG

Totally out of point.

Thats not what I meant.

Anyone who dont do a double take might miscontrue Albert Einstein supporting Christianity, the concept of Holy Trinity and the News Testament. You said it, presence of evil means absence of God.

You think the Jews would actually support the notion of God laid out in the New Testaments? An easy trap for evangelists to gain more persuasive power in the name of Albert Einstein.

And we are still not in the clear what Albert himself mean by God. It may not be even a Jewish or Christian notion of God. We are still on assumptions here.

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