Original Sin (Of Angels and Man)

last SG · 2005-12-20T23:26:13+00:00

There's a cheemer version of it.

laurence82 SG

Dont use my name lar

You cant even prove your original quote as true, not even a website source.

The singular point abt using sources abt the internet, as i said way back, is anyone can use the net to their advantage without the necessary check ups.

Now that me and icemoon had searched for the data, which i also did on several webbies, i can post if you like, where is yours?

Again, stop skirting the issue and answer the question, which i asked way back this morning i believe.

breytonhartge SG

already answered, i believe unless you cannot read...

An Eternal Now SG

Actually it is true. I have done quit some research on Albert Einstein's views on religion and God. He did not believed in a personal God.

M©+square SG

Clarify on which?

laurence82 SG

i was hoping for more than an email. The website state that such quotes were sent thru emails, meaning no original source can be found rite?

Duh

laurence82 SG

I think this time, i am seriously pissed.

First thing is the injuries done to a person of reputation, and to his stance, which he held strongly to, in my opinion. Its akin to lying.

Second is the consequences of posting a original Christian made up story, put in AE's name, and present it to everyone. In terms of evangelism, it gain a persuasive power. Consequences? Not only it leads to people finding a god, but Christian definitions of a god mired up in this whole mess.

To this, i say sheesh!

M©+square SG

Let me try to summarize your points. (Of which i think the verses are mis-quoted)

1) Apart from being a Believer. All things and actions are evil?

2) Apart of being accept by God, men have no way of knowing what love is.

3) Only a believer do not see or conduct evil since 'goodness of God is present, so evil is absent'
Only non believers experience evil doings and have evil conducts?

Am i right in clarifying the 3 points above?

The biblical quotes are quite off point, i do not have any interest to attack the word. I suggest that you answer in your own words.

M©+square SG

Relax. Go and have a walk and drink water.

laurence82 SG

It didnt piss me off before, now it does.

People are implying that i am just troublemaking, but look at them, putting up stories that dont fit, statements they barely know or understand the consequences.

When pointed out the holes and lack of consistency, the issue was skirted.

I am making troubles? Gee

Mad

M©+square SG

Lau. I got eyes to see la.
But you must remember you're in a Christian forum.
Though you may be right, they still have got to defend their beliefs. Though i must admit that sometimes they know that there are flaws they will not back down, instead try to steer off the arguement. Yes you have said it right 'skirted'. Very weak.

But what to do? It's their belief and what they hold fast to.
If they lose the arguement which they do not have the capacity to debate, very Mah Lu.
Sometimes i wonder if it's about God or about defending their knowledge, making a point and winning a debate.

Rolling Eyes

Cheers to Christian forum.

Icemoon SG

Brey has given Christians a bad name. Shows that he can't think critically.

Lucky SIS not here. Or he'll machine gun brey to shreads.

laurence82 SG

MC, I dont agree that its all about defending the faith or belief. Most of the issues or flames are concerned with presenting a very inconsistent 'holey' knowledge of Christianity. Its not about right or wrong doctrine or theology. Its more of how one present it, how one consistently present it, how one not anyhow use whatever materials to support one's ideas or to gain advantage, how to present it in a manner in full knowledge of the consequences.

M©+square SG

I agree. That's why there are times when SIS posted sensible issues i supported him!

M©+square SG

Lau, i gave them(particularly a handful)the benefit of doubt.
Which was why i voiced out that some people do not have the capacity to handle certain topics/religious issues but yet tried to argue their way through, even though it is obvious they are losing it.

To me admitance to lost or ignorance brings forth great respect...

Chin Eng SG

Hey bro, glad you folks stay up late (or early).... I'd written almost the same thing too.

Yes, good is a relative term. In light of that (and in Matt 19:17) then NONE is good, so can we safely conclude that nothing that you and I had ever done (before we accepted Christ) is good, or alternatively, everything we have done from that point of acceptance is good? So obviously, we may have talking about different definition of what "GOOD" is.

Also in light of this definition, than can we safely conclude that we should all stop telling others to help the needy, support the poor and console the widows - unless these people has accepted Christ?

CE, of the whole passage only one verse talks about false prophets... read the passage carefully.

On 1 Jn 4 - yes only a couple of verses talked about false prophets, the rest talks about love.

On Einstein -
We can all agree that none of the quotations are provable.
If none of the testimonies given are verifiable, it is better not to use them.
Does it matter? Shocked

M©+square SG

Link to source Einstein Proves That God Exists in a Confrontation with a Professor-Fiction!
Further reads http://www.snopes.com/religion/einstein.asp

Summary of the eRumor
This is an account of a classroom encounter between young Albert Einstein and a professor who was arguing that the Christian faith is a myth.
Einstein argues that evil is the absence of God in the same way that darkness is the absence of light and cold is the absence of heat.

The Truth
There is no evidence that this exchange ever took place.
This eRumor has circulated without Einstein's name and someone added it to a version that started circulating in the summer of 2004.
Also, it is not likely that young Einstein would have presented this argument.
In his Autobiographical Notes, he states that even though his Jewish family was not religious, he developed a "deep religiosity" as Jewish child that came to an end when he was 12.
He says he developed a skeptical attitude that never left him.
He made reference to "God" on many occasions but also said he did not believe some of the stories in the Bible and did not believe in a personal God.

M©+square SG

Morning bro,

I can't help it, after seeing mis-quotes. I got to write back. Laughing

Cheers

breytonhartge SG

My last post on this topic.

Yes anyone can use the internet to back up their claims... all of us do it. Lau, I don't see how I skirted the topic, I told you where I got my source from, I cannot do anymore or anyless than that. I do not see the need for you to get pissed off? What is the point? But if you want to be go ahead, be my guest, dosent bother me.

If I have given Christians a bad name, then all I can say to my fellow bro and sis in Christ is sorry. I live by faith and not critical thinking. As a Christian that is what our walk with God is about. It is actually easier for a person to critical think than to live by faith. I have done enough critical thinking in my opinion to know that it serves no purpose, this forum shows that so well, you go round and round and round. MC, Icemoon, Laurence, where has all this critical thinking gotten you? Yes you have proven you can argue well and that you have a host of knowledge about theology. I confess, I dont. But Jesus was exactly against this, he rebuked the Pharisees time and time again for their legalism and theology. In the end, your theology is not going to save you, Faith is. So on this point consider it a win for you. It was never about winning or loosing but presenting a differing view point. The important thing to get is God's wisdom and get discernment.

Yes CE, about albert einstein.. .who gives a .... dosen't bother me either way, but i was just using that to show something else. Yes, a person outside of God can do good in his own sight, but may not do good in God's sight and that is the sad truth. If may can do good without God, then man does not need God. Even Jesus had the humility to say that no one is good but my father. So what makes us better than Jesus?

CE, everything from the point of acceptance may not be good because we may not have followed the prompting of the Lord. My definition of good has always been based on what God would consider good. Not mens definition of good. You should know your bible well, it says also that in that day many will come and say Lord, Lord, did we not do this and that in your name but He will say away with you evil doers, I never knew you.
John 6:29 (Amplified Bible)
29Jesus replied, This is the work (service) that God asks of you: that you believe in the One Whom He has sent [that you cleave to, trust, rely on, and have faith in His Messenger].
MC,
1) Apart from being a Believer. All things and actions are evil?
Not true, a believer can still choose to do things that are evil.

2)Apart of being accept by God, men have no way of knowing what love is.
True. God is love, so if man does not know God how can he know what love is? Our human ideal of love is so far off what God is that you just cannot bridge the gap.

3) Only a believer do not see or conduct evil since 'goodness of God is present, so evil is absent' Only non believers experience evil doings and have evil conducts?
Not true, a believer can still choose to conduct evil. Being a believer also does not exempt you from evil doings, but we have the protection of the almighty and He will turn what was intended for evil to good. That is our assurance.

Disagree that the biblical quotes are off point, I suggest that you reflect on them in your free time. If you think they are, please post up some that you think are on point so I can meditate on them too!

In Christ.
Brey

laurence82 SG

Sheesh, you've done something that amounts to slander. Have the guts to stand up and admit it, rather than leading yourself into greater denial and shrugging it all off.

You have churn up something from the email, which three of us at least have proven otherwise, to the point of check mulitple websites for clarifications. Something that you cannot even pinpoint the source for credibility.

You insist its the words. Again, I have said for the umpteenth time the consequences of posting things and not deriving the meaning from the author point of views. And the author is also proven to be fake.

Do everyone and yourself a favour - stop wrapping yourself in denial and stop treating everyone else like fools.

For a moderator, this is totally unbecoming.

Icemoon SG

Sheesh .. you've put the Lord's name in shame. You've let your school teachers down. If you're a graduate, you wasted your money on tertiary education.

Get God's wisdom? I think you're not even 1% there yet. God don't give each of us a brain for nothing. Discernment? You can't even discern a simple Albert Einstein quote .. what else you want to discern??

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