Old testament

last SG · 2005-05-26T13:14:40+00:00

The reason stupidissmart that we need Christ is because He became the perfect sacrifice once and for all for us. Jesus came so that we might have GRACE becau...

subsuxor SG

Do you still think it is relevant now?

stupidissmart SG

OT is totally impossible to follow in today’s society, but the bible states tat it is very important and all its rules had to be kept. Most christians and catholic now simply turn a blind eye to a huge portion of it. IMO it do give the impression tat the bible is faulty and not perfect.

Icemoon SG

Yay SIS finally replied after so many weeks!

stupidissmart SG

sad to say I have taken a more busy schedule will will find myself having less time to write in forums. I guess tis is good news for some people here…

Icemoon SG

Bad news. It mean EH ratings may drop even further .. haha

stupidissmart SG

actually when I first arrive, there appears to be much activity such as wekkly thred etc. Now the activities seems to be really going downhill.

subsuxor SG

i notice something ironic even in those religous people, they keep quoting from the new testament.Then when someone ask them about old testment, they feel it is irrelevant

subsuxor SG

How many in the modern age still agree that a saying in the old testament which goes something like this

A camel is more likely to pass through the needle of a eye than a rich man going to heaven(I think it was something like this)

Or leviticus insisting that we should not loan for interest

Icemoon SG

The first one is a hyperbole? Not meant to be taken literally.

Chin Eng SG

I don't know if there is an actually quotation from the NT that states explicitly that the OT is to be followed literally. Jesus Christ even challenged some of the rules stated in the OT when He spoke out against the Pharisees.

Basically, the OT is divided into the 5 books of the Pentateuch, which the Jews (practitioners of Judaisim) follow religious, the books of poetry/wisdom ie Psalms, Proverbs, Songs, Ecclesiastes, and then there are the historical books of Judges, Samuel, Chronicles and Kings, to be followed by the prophetic books, both major and minor prophets.

Books of laws as I'd mentioned are the rules for the Jews, these are probably practical if we were alive back then with regards to how we should live, but these are probably irrelevant in this present times;
Books of history provides us a glimpse of life in the OT, maybe even learning the culture of the middle east at the time, one only need to refer to a non-religious history book to validate if these are true or not;
Books of poetry is like wise saying that may be useful for some level of practical living (doesn't even need to be religious to follow them);
Books of prophets is a pronouncement of the future for the people in OT. Some prophecy came true and others are waiting to happen.

When everything is over in Malachi, it's over. The old covenant has passed and the new covenant arrived in John.

stupidissmart SG

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5:17 onwards. Here jesus say the OT r relevant forever. How about the book of Deutronomy ? Was it meant to be folowed ?

ccck SG

pls dnt get confused witht the old covenant n the Law. they r two very differennt things. Deuteronmy was mainly the description n records of the old covenant. the Law is the ten commandments. thus Jesus was saying tt the ten commandments still stands n He fulfilled it.

plo30360 SG

The Law and the Prophets that verse refers to was the divine Law and the prophet's message respectively e.g 10 commandments not the laws such as the Mosiac laws e.g: An eye for an eye.

stupidissmart SG

Tat is strange, all the laws is mentioned by Lord to moses to instruct the people. So these r not laws ? Even the bible says tat Lord explicitly named tham as "laws". Jesus use the word "laws". Now they r different things ?!?! The whole bok of deuteronomy says they r laws to be followed, directly from the Lord. He even mention tis many times

See that you do all I command you; do not add to it or take away from it

Some passages for Deuteronmy which states tat the laws listed after r "laws". The commandments r not the only laws.

See, I am setting before you today a blessing and a curse- 27 the blessing if you obey the commands of the LORD your God that I am giving you today; 28 the curse if you disobey the commands of the LORD your God and turn from the way that I command you today by following other gods, which you have not known. 29 When the LORD your God has brought you into the land you are entering to possess, you are to proclaim on Mount Gerizim the blessings, and on Mount Ebal the curses. 30 As you know, these mountains are across the Jordan, west of the road, [c] toward the setting sun, near the great trees of Moreh, in the territory of those Canaanites living in the Arabah in the vicinity of Gilgal. 31 You are about to cross the Jordan to enter and take possession of the land the LORD your God is giving you. When you have taken it over and are living there, 32 be sure that you obey all the decrees and laws I am setting before you today.

plo30360 SG

Originally posted by stupidissmart:
Tat is strange, all the laws is mentioned by Lord to moses to instruct the people. So these r not laws ? Even the bible says tat Lord explicitly named tham as "laws". Jesus use the word "laws". Now they r different things ?!?! The whole bok of deuteronomy says they r laws to be followed, directly from the Lord. He even mention tis many times

See that you do all I command you; do not add to it or take away from it

Some passages for Deuteronmy which states tat the laws listed after r "laws". The commandments r not the only laws.

See, I am setting before you today a blessing and a curse- 27 the blessing if you obey the commands of the LORD your God that I am giving you today; 28 the curse if you disobey the commands of the LORD your God and turn from the way that I command you today by following other gods, which you have not known. 29 When the LORD your God has brought you into the land you are entering to possess, you are to proclaim on Mount Gerizim the blessings, and on Mount Ebal the curses. 30 As you know, these mountains are across the Jordan, west of the road, [c] toward the setting sun, near the great trees of Moreh, in the territory of those Canaanites living in the Arabah in the vicinity of Gilgal. 31 You are about to cross the Jordan to enter and take possession of the land the LORD your God is giving you. When you have taken it over and are living there, 32 be sure that you obey [b]all the decrees and laws I am setting before you today.[/b]

There are different types of laws as I've stated earlier Jesus was refering to the laws of God such as you stated in the passage. He was not refering to the laws added on by the Jews. Furthermore this passage is one of the extension(support) of the commandments.

stupidissmart SG

The laws which I have stated r explicitly mentioned by God himself to tell to the people. They r not laws added by the jews. From Deuteronomy 1-12, they r telling people the importance of the laws and from DT 13 onwards they r telling wat laws have to be followed, from moses mouth it was “laws”, “decree” “commands” and he say it came from “God”/”Lord”. Jesus says the law has to be followed, and the things listed in deuteronomy r part of the old laws. They were really followed and they were supposedly from god. Now u r forsaking it and claim they r jewish laws. Why don’t u read the whole deuteronomy and tell me again why do u think these laws were not laws or why these laws were only made by jewish for jewish, not made by god for its people. After he finished saying all the laws for tat day, he climb down the hill, god is suppose to be pleased and show him a vision of the land his decendents is gonna get befiore he die. DT 33

ccck SG

If Jesus meant 4 us to keep the old covenant He wld hv washed his hads b4 he ate n stayed away frm certain food. Read the Gospels. He told the Pharisees tt nothing outside can make the inside unclean but rather the heart of a man. The Mosiac Laws stated tt certain foods shld b abstained n one must wash their hands b4 they ate. now if Jesus say tt the laws of the old covenant still stands, He wld b contradicting Himself. but if He is God in the flesh, who is infinite then, now n forever more, He cant contradict Himself. Thus, frm basic common sensical and logical analysis, we can thus accurately say tt the old covenant is broken. Very Happy

Icemoon SG

ccck, aren't you like begging the question now?

stupidissmart SG

Well, actually I derive different conclusions from your statement Very Happy If jesus says the old laws still stand, and the old laws itself says it will stand forever, and tat Jesus purposely broke some of the old laws, then it is an obvious bible contradiction and it shows tat either god is not as wat he describe or the whole bible is just man written without any inspiration from supernatural forces. Very Happy From basic common sensical and logical analysis, we can come to the conclusion tat the bible is flawed

ccck SG

if annnyone has qs then can pm me….rather than posting up here n have a certain individual try to warp the truth in2 some obscure reasoning under the guise of rationalising.