The bible says that there are 2 means to salvation: one by
following the laws strictly and the other by Christ, through the
grace of God. The first way is to follow every single law of God,
which is impossible for man to follow. The laws of God reflect the
holy nature of God, so if men so desire to seek justification
through the law, he has to obey each and every single one of them.
That is not possible. So the effect of the law is to instill guilt
and lead to a consciousness of sin. If you do not believe you have
sinned, you won't realize that you have fallen short of the
standard required and hence you will not see the need to seek an
alternative means of salvation.
So the first step to salvation is to be aware of all these laws and
as one tries to obey them, it becomes clear that it is impossible
and so we all stand condemned by the law.
Then to know more about sins, we should follow the OT as closely
as possible, not to totally throw them away isn't it ? HAve u
actually try to follow the OT at all in the first place ? U should
probably try as hard as possible to follow these laws until u give
up isn't it ? Why just don't follow the Ot and say we do nto follow
them ? I said before, u r giving justification to follow the OT, u
r not giving justification not to follow them. U r going back to
your old points again.
And wat is the result ? We should not follow any laws then isn't it
? We r gonna break the las and ask for divine intervention in the
end so no matter wat we so now, it is pointless. We have already
broken so many different laws in the OT isn't it ? SInce we r gonna
break so many laws, might as well break all the laws such as
murdering, killing, being homo, commit adultery, stealing etc since
the OT laws r as important as any biblical laws.
I did not say that...read carefully before you comment. Any man
who tries to seek justification by following the law will discover
that he is not able to and so will suffer the consequences of sin.
Therefore, the effect of the law is to tell us that we are all
condemned. No one is justified by the law...that is the purpose and
effect of the law...it condemns us.
First, u do not show any biblical account on your belief.
Second, I can easily show u the many possible forms of punishment
inthe bible if anyone break the OT law. So if you r right tat only
idiot will follow the OT laws and surely fail, and he do not suffer
the punishment tat god had promised to his believers, then he is
lying. He lied tat people who do not follow the laws will not
suffer.
Give you an analogy. Suppose you are an incurable cannabis
addict. In Amsterdam where there is no law against cannabis, you
are not guilty of a crime and you may not see that it is a problem.
If you come to Singapore where there is a law against it, that is a
crime. To avoid being a criminal in Singapore, you must not smoke
cannabis. But you soon realize that it is impossible for you,
because you are a hopeless addict. To obey our drug law, you must
refrain from cannabis, but you find it impossible. The only
alternative, the only way not to be convicted under Singapore's
laws then is to submit to drug rehab treatment. The effect of the
law therefore is to lead you to undergo rehab, unless you can stop
the addiction by yourself, which you cannot.
However tat has really nothing connected to tis situation isn't
it ? If u r a drug addict and u still wnna go to singapore, then u
deserve it isn't it since u purposely made tat choice of going
there ? U have a choice in tis, unlike being human there is no
choice. If u want an analogy, I can give u a better one. ONce upon
a time there was a cruel emperor. He devised many rules to torture
his people. He say the rule r forever and will never change. These
rules r impossible to fulfil, such as asking the people to walk ito
the water and if they come out wet, they get beated. Then one day
he become more crazy and say tat every everybody do not need to
follow the rules in the country even though the laws r still there.
He is already lying about the fact tat the rules r forever.
Furthermore he is not fair to the people who had lived under the
old rules where they get punished. There is absolutely no rules for
the people and they can break every single rule they want as long
as they r still a citizen in the country. SO we can expect the
people to go around robbing and stealing things without any fear of
punishment and the people live become much worse
The purpose of the Mosaic law is therefore to bring Man to the
place where he realizes that he has fallen short of the standard
required by God. The laws are so stringent that it is clear no man
can meet its requirements. Therefore, the law does not find anyone
justified.
And in tat case men should break all laws since they can't keep
majority of the laws. BTW some laws r not harsh, they r ridiculous
and silly. They r meaningless to perhaps most people here. These
laws r killing a pigeon and releasing another after a woman have
their periods and laws like taking the wives and children of your
slave as your own.
You are trying to take the place of God and decide what should
be sinful and what should not be. If you accept that God is holy
and man is far from holy, you will realize how ridiculous it will
be if Man can understand the reason for God's laws. God is the law
giver, not us. The law is supposed to reflect God's nature, not our
own. It will be surprising if sinful Man can agree with the laws of
a holy God.
WHy don't u tell me why does women having period is unclean ? If
it is far holier than men, then he wouldn't made such silly laws
since he is the one tat invented mensus in the first place. There r
probably many laws there tat is ridiculous, impossible and unfair
and u probably can't answer wat sense does it made. If u ask me,
tis can conclude the god is not as holy as u believe.
You can disagree with the laws...it's your prerogative. But just
because many people think homosexuality should not be a crime, it
remains a criminal offence currently and one can be punished if he
is convicted.
Then why don't u ask your sister and mother to practise the
killing and releasing pigeons in the sky to remove their
uncleaniness during their period. It is the old laws isn't it ? Why
should u eat pork, it is prohibited in the OT as well. God had said
these laws out too. U agree with the laws, then u should follow
them right ? Why aren't u following the laws from the very holy god
? I tell u franky, these laws r silly and ridiculous, not harsh.
Tat is why most people do not follow them now. If u think
these laws r ridiculous, then u should believe god is not as holy
as one thinks. If u think these laws r fair, then u should practise
all the OT in our lives now. It is fair, it is sensible and it came
from a holy god so it should be followed. U should follow
it as closely as possible isn't it ? U r not god, why judge these
laws youself and not follow them ? U must follow them and not to
dismiss them if u think they r so precious and holy. They r
probably for your own good too if your god is so holy. SO follow
the OT !
As I have explained above, in view of our sinful nature, we will
find it impossible to achieve justification through the law. That
leaves us with only one alternative means of justification. The
central doctrine of Christianity is about the substitutionary
justification provided by Christ.
Then in short, why need christ ? We just need lambs isn't it ?
We can just sacrifice as much lambs as we need and we will be
sinless. Don't u find it silly, he made all the laws, he say they r
unchanging, he say people who do not follow will suffer gravely.
Then u say the laws r actually not to be followed and then u say if
u sacrifice a lamb, your sin will be erased off and jesus is the
same as lambs. Isn't tat contradicting each other ? Isn't tat lying
when god says tat the people will suffer gravely when they break
the laws ?
You must have heard the analogy of this idea of substitutionary
redemption. A criminal is sentenced to a fine for a crime he
committed. The judge who did not crime had to pass the sentence out
of justice but out of mercy, he offered to pay the fine for the
criminal. By simply accepting the judge's offer, the criminal
becomes justified. His debt is paid and he goes free.
If there is a judge who keeps paying for all criminals, then the
whole world will be a more chaotic place and everybody will just
keep breaking the laws as and when they want to. Wat is law and
order then ?
No, the Pharisees tried but certainly no man can follow the law,
especially when Jesus further added to its demands, as I have
mentioned previously. Justification has got nothing to do with how
good we lead our lives, because no matter how good we try, we will
still fall short of God's standard. And just in an exam, it does
not matter whether you fail by a mark or 30 marks...you fail.
Then surely something is wrong with the system isn't it ? It
says tat all people will be punished heavily if they fail and then
they purposely make sure everyone fails. Might as well just punish
men straight from the start. Since everyone fails, and whether they
fail by 30 marks or 5 marks, then might as well fail miserably by
getting zero and start to masacre everybody now. In fact, why take
the test ? Nobody cares about the result of the test.
The question is analogous to the criminal who, having received
pardon from the judge, asking if he can therefore continue to steal
knowing that the judge will always pay the fine. The bible is
saying that to claim the salvation of Christ is to completely
reject sin and strive to live according to God's standards in the
Bible. Of course we will fail to obey all the laws from time to
time, but there is no longer any condemnation 'for those who are in
Christ Jesus' [Rom 8:1]. The Christian aspires to live in a manner
that befits his calling but it is no longer for the purpose of
seeking justification. It is striving towards an ideal, not
struggling for salvation.
Aren't u intentionally sinning if u eat pork ? Aren't u
intentionally sinning when u don't release pigeons after your
period ? U r intentionally sinning according to god's standard when
u don't follow the OT isn't it ? U r not striving "ideal" when u do
not follow the OT isn't it ? SO the case is either follow all the
laws or break all the laws since it can't be helped. U r suggesting
we do not follow all the laws isn't it ?
