NS Rank Promotion: Why Reservist NS Units Refuse to for Men?

last SG · 2006-07-06T16:41:59+00:00

Is that because the degree holder is 23 years old, and the PSLE holder is only 12 years old?

dragg SG

not for him. he has an air-con room all to himself.

i remember he was a scholar or something. someone with an attitude!!!

LazerLordz SG

not uncommon. Laughing

laurence82 SG

actually in my unit its more of regulars vs nsf

common, coz logistics units are regulars-heavy units usually

so, sometimes my OC cant do much too, coz 'excess baggage' warrants and all will have their rice bowl broken

sigh

saline SG

when u die (during training) confirm promote 2 ranks meh? the recent cdo, nv got promoted wat..

raymond_sianz SG

aiya if you white horse confirm go OCS one. They even give you chance even if you fail many times. This is not a myth this is a true FACT. Singapore as long as you are scholar means you are good. But there are really very good scholar and lousy ones. but i can only say lousy one got more. Regulars are fark up. They think we NSF are dirt. So we NSf must show them that we can do better outside and screwed them up when we see them next time.

Long LIve NSF. Down the the stupid regulars!!!!

equlus84 SG

I personally think we should review the way we vocation the soldiers into the various vocations. We should stop the "any how take, one size fits all" type of selection. This have serious caused many people from being misplaced into vocations inwhich they are not suitable for, either mentally or physically. i have read from the other military forums and have notice this interesing topic.

There was this guy from Finland, in which their country practices conscription, and their pool of professionals are reality similar to Singapore. He was from the Guards Jaeger brigade, which is like our Guards formation which is like a RDF fromation. He says that his unit selects soldiers from the reservist or soldiers whom have served for quite some time. The selection criteria is not mainly on physical strength but more on how mentally matured the individual is.......
I think this type of selection is better. I think we should get the CO personally down to BMTC to choose the ppls that are suitable for the vocation, not based on some lame PC interview or CMPB computer psycho-analysis system. Units should also choose peoples based not on how fit they are, but rather, how interested or committed he is in a particular vocation. Honestly speaking, I feel that some peoples are veri immature and mentally unfit for some vocation.

tiggersgd SG

beg to differ.

not all LCPs are up to the kind of leadership (specialist as in 3SG and above) that u are referring to. just like the saying that all that passed out from OCS may not make gd officers.

while having common sense, qualities of a leader and respect from men etc are important, it is equally important that the LCP want to aspire to become a Specialist instead of being a man in the coy.

some LCP are successful in the biz world upon ORD and in due time became market leaders are great for encouragement and so on but still Army is a very different organisation altogether. ask around ur LCP/CPL friends to see if they will want to become a Specialist if chance allow (again a 2nd time in the army) and most of them will most likely say they will not.

take for eg, my tank gunner, refused a promotion from CPL to OCS during his NSF days. y? bcos he prefers to be a gunner in the current unit and so on. not bcos he doesn't have all the oustanding qualities of a true leader but it is not in his desire to become an officer. period. i can tell u, he is one hell of a gd soldier, fren and comrade. and i have many men that are of that calibre.

as for the case in NSmen, my unit does promote LCP to CPLs and from CPL to 3SG etc etc where their vocation and rank promotion allow. there're many cases out there but its not heard of. recognition is indeed lacking but trust me, there are many more that will be coming up.

casshern SG

i dun get it, wat does regulars got to do with scholars and OCS and being farked up? u ,my friend, is even more shallow den a puddle of water

binZ SG

gents.. there is nv a right or wrong in anything..

for example.. if the co go down to the ground to choose the commanders, you are still basing on the judgement of one person..

even in the corporate world.. sometimes you have to trust the fellow you delegate to do the job..

no matter where, there are people who can polish people's boots all the way up..

there are times when people make wrong decisions..

even if no one can predict how successful one can be in the future..

cheers.

insouciant SG

Buddy, no one is saying that ALL LCPs should be promoted to 3SGs if you read the thread carefully. THAT would be pure stupidity.

We're just saying that there is a issue with the process that promotes so many people to be 3SGs or above based on their education, when there are many people who would make better combat or technical leaders who might not have that "pre-requisite" A level or polytechnic certificate when they are conscripted.

I'm glad that your unit is good enough to recognize its men and promote them. The other issue raised here is not enough units do so.

Sure there are lots of people there who might not want to promoted to take on more responsibilities. But then how many guys if given a choice would willing do NS in the 1st place? We are talking about who would make better leaders for the sake of the military. Not about who wants to.

Gordonator SG

it is unfair in the sense that during reservist, only sergeants and officers get promoted. CPLs aren't given a chance at all. Confused Rolling Eyes

saline SG

first of all, the world is not fair wat.
anyway, a CPL is not trained in stuffs that a SGT is trained in.
for eg: topo, organic weapons, signals, military symbols, ops order, bla bla bla.
correct?

insouciant SG

Same goes for privates and LCPs.

insouciant SG

Please, most of us don't remember even haf the stuff by the time reservist rolls around. And even fewer of us put it into practice.

Besides, a lot of it is common sense. Most of the men who served in the combat units as a combat soldier can pick it up. None of it was rocket science.

And again, I have seen LCPs who do a better job driving the section than some sect comds.

dragg SG

it is only 2 years.

how do expect the army to sort out your individual capabilities in such a short time.

even in working life we see how screw-up management can be. many useless idiots are promoted to management.

in fact most managers are idiots!!!

FlowerGrass SG

Ah yo...

You know our system is like this coz our beloved Mr Lee S . L. was a BG.
See how capable he is and you know why they have such a system.

But you know those going to BSLC and ASLC ppl for their sgt course is the most respected one! Coz the Warrant officer sure screw them!! but the trainer be it warrant officer or not in the OCS still give the cadet some respect as they will become officer soon mah...

agree?

saline SG

true. tell that to the Stars. the govt recognize "papers". i am sure u know that.
everybody here have seen men who are more zhai than SGTs.
A level/ Dip confirm get CPL. do All of them deserve the CPL rank? some are better off as LCPs.
another prob it is how commanders are chosen.
i feel that the Cdo method of choosing commanders is pretty good. also i suggest bringing back the private first class rank back.

saline SG

i went tru BSLC (SISPEC) and OCC (OCS), tell u the truth, in OCS i was wacked the hardest.

Eikei SG

When in OCS, until the very last moment when the epaulette is on your shoulder, you'll still be screwed by every single spec as hard as anywhere else. Its quite simple, you aren't an officer until you are one.

Anyway the problem with LCPs being promoted to CPL/3SG is that they would need to be sent to BSLC/ASLC and that would seriously disrupt training. Thats what the Sect. 2IC position is for, to train good LCPs to take a junior leadership role. As for the lousy commanders, I have nothing to say cos I've seen many terrible ones but I have also seen good ones so I guess given the short time SAF has, it is doing all it possibly can to nurture NSF commanders. However the standard of most regulars are disappointing.

Another point to note: It would be hard for a non A leve/poly guy to be able to grasp AOP/Topo/Technical stuff on top of doing things like safety planning, RMP/RAWR, write out lesson plans and design exercises, conduct training and write admin instructions. Remember, there is a training/administrative side of army, not just the exercise/warfare side.

insouciant SG

You don't need to go through BSLC to become a CPL. Hence I don't see a problem promoting sect 21/cs to CPL.

As for the safety planning, and all that.. a lot of O level grads can also do it. Heck, how many 3SG sect comds write lesson plans, design exercises etc. Even more so when in the reserves?

Lastly, there is a decent number of people who still get their university degrees, polytechnic diplomas after NS. Just because the didn't get their A levels of polytechnic diploma prior to entering NS means that they don't have smarts.

My whole point is that we need a better way of choosing who gets selected for appointments better than our current (stupid) system of basing it on education.

And we should look at actually rewarding LCPs, PFCs and PTEs who do well in the reservist, instead of giving lip service that we do.

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