monstrance and blessed scrament stolen

last SG · 2009-02-05T18:43:18+00:00

............................................And if you have dobuts in the Church, why go in the first place? You maybe hearing the wrong things.....and how...

Pennycake SG

Bleh.. you know why non-Catholics think we worship Mary =.="

This was my Facebook status on 6 Feb:

SingaporeMacross SG

Most Most Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, I adore Thee profoundly.

I offer Thee the most Precious Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord Jesus Christ,

Really and truly present in every tabernacle of the world in reparation for the countless outrages, sacrileges and indifferences by which He is offended.

And through the infinite merits of the Sacred Heart of Jesus and of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, I beg Thee to convert poor sinners. Amen.

dumbdumb! SG

You are right that every aspect is important (including doing God's will) .....but what pennycake is trying to tell you is that the holy communion is the highlight of the Mass (not that the others are not important or less important)....which is why our Mass is also called Eucharistic Celebration and you know now that it is not symbolic but real presence of Christ.

You will notice that the Mass from begining till end is about God and Christ.....and wonder why some protestants are spreading lies that Catholics are not worshipping God and that they are worshipping Mary........??

i've talked about this many times already. if it's just something i've heard from others it's one thing, but it's different when i see it for myself, and hear ppl talk about it etc.

it's another endless discussion, really.

to me, if you stand in front of a statue, bowing your head (and i'm not talking about checking out your shoes), it's prayer. call me ignorant, but tts how it is for me.

yes, i know you all say that it's the same as how i would ask my cell leader to pray for me etc. but erm yeah, i actually hv a physical conversation with him, and i'm not on my knees when i ask him to pray for me.

and some say that Jesus will hear mother mary's prayers more, and be more inclined to listen to her, because she's his mother etc. this one i think my aunt said that.

and some will tell the congregation to go st joseph because he, as Jesus' father, pao ka liao.

and some will tell the congregation that mother mary is the best matchmaker

and of course, to sum it up, some rosary group member was unhappy that the group changed the statue and in fact, kicked a big fuss until they had to have an official meeting about it. ugly business. (yes, yes, some ppl feel more attached like photograph etc as quoted by smarty or some others - but as the list goes on, the excuses cooked up just gets weaker and lamer la)

so like chin eng says.. let's just agree to disagree. on my part, my prayers will only be directed to God alone, and i will only ask a living person to pray with me or for me. i won't ever ask a dead person to pray for me on my behalf to God.

dumbdumb! SG

Bleh.. you know why non-Catholics think we worship Mary =.="

This was my Facebook status on 6 Feb:

honouring is giving her the due respect she deserves because she had the guts to do God's will even though it would have given her great dishonour (to be pregnant before being married is a big scandal). but i think there's a line drawn la, we can't hv this discussion if neither of us can be open minded enough to see it logically.

this is the facts i see: you set up altars for statues of mother mary

you decorate her altar with flowers and bottles of holy water

she's dead (and will be called up at the end of days to be judged by Jesus, like every one of us)

at the end of it, she's human, Jesus is God. i really cannot reconcile the fact that some of you can tell me, asking her to pray for me is more effective because she is his mother, and Jesus will listen to her.

Kuali Baba SG

A religion's followers are often not an accurate reflection of the religion itself, and unfortunately, we're not an exception to that.

Kuali Baba SG

this is the facts i see: you set up altars for statues of mother mary

you decorate her altar with flowers and bottles of holy water

she's dead (and will be called up at the end of days to be judged by Jesus, like every one of us)

The Catholic dogma holds that Mary was assumed, body and soul, into Heaven. You probably know our position already but it's worth restating.

The official position is that icons are devotional and meditational aids, and while there's nothing wrong with ornamentation, it's easy to lose sight of God and get carried away. Such distraction is in no way approved by the church itself. The wording of the Ave Maria, besides repeating what Elizabeth said to her, reiterates her role as an intercessor.

dumbdumb! SG

A religion's followers are often not an accurate reflection of the religion itself, and unfortunately, we're not an exception to that.

true as that may be, but it certainly isn't an excuse.

we're all salt and light in the world, ppl see the fruits of our belief and use that to see if what we believe is good or bad.

tts how it works.

now, i'm not discrediting catholics who are real in their faith - like mother theresa, father richards and alot of nuns and monks who devoted their lives to God. commendable really.

i'm just saying, that u can't use that as an excuse. protestant or catholic.

from what i've heard, alot of things i agree with father richard - everytime u see a christian with a sour face, it's always a catholic. or, the time he talked about bringing in a coffin, and placing a mirror in it, and watch their own reflection in it, to emphasis the fact that the church is dead.

so what if you have fiery preachers, until you stop giving excuses and start doing things, then people's perspective will automatically change.

u know what really gets to me now - christians (protestant or catholic) with lousy anger management problem. full of pride.

they can see the verse Ephesians 6:1-4

¹Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. ²"Honor your father and mother"—which is the first commandment with a promise— ³"that it may go well with you and that you may enjoy long life on the earth."^[a] ⁴Fathers, do not exasperate your children; instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord.

but they only read the top part, and conveniently leaving out the bottom part which they have to apply themselves.

disgusting. and the person i'm refering to is a catholic.

dumbdumb! SG

The Catholic dogma holds that Mary was assumed, body and soul, into Heaven. You probably know our position already but it's worth restating.

no i don't. but even if it is, so what? the bible didn't say it. the only 3 ppl recorded in the bible to have their bodies personally handled by God are moses, elijah and Jesus.

why do you think during the transfiguration, only moses and elijah appeared?

if you believe sincerely that the bible is the word of God, wholly inspired by God, and if that was either true or important, wouldn't God have had that included in the bible?

Smarty Boy SG

i've talked about this many times already. if it's just something i've heard from others it's one thing, but it's different when i see it for myself, and hear ppl talk about it etc.

Actually, what do you see during Mass? Praying to Mary as God?

You are right that it is not what people says but what you see that matters. But the falsehood that people said (and still saying) is creating a false impression in people’s mind….and cause them to see what is not the real situation.

Smarty Boy SG

it's another endless discussion, really.

to me, if you stand in front of a statue, bowing your head (and i'm not talking about checking out your shoes), it's prayer. call me ignorant, but tts how it is for me.

and some say that Jesus will hear mother mary's prayers more, and be more inclined to listen to her, because she's his mother etc. this one i think my aunt said that.

and some will tell the congregation to go st joseph because he, as Jesus' father, pao ka liao.

and some will tell the congregation that mother mary is the best matchmaker

It is not endless….because the truth is there for all to see. Like I said, falsehood that is repeated again and again is causing wrong impressions.

Mother Mary is indeed a powerful intercessor and so are the other Saints. Some people are told that Jesus listen to Mother Mary more…..and maybe that’s the fault of Novena….or misunderstanding of what the priest there meant.

But really, what they are saying is that the prayers of Saints are more powerful than us poor sinners. That is why we asked them to help pray with us and for us and it works. We see this happening with the many thanks giving testimonies and petitions received at Novenas. If you read the latest Catholic News, you will realise that 40% of people who attend Novena are non-Christians – many later signed up for RCIA and become Catholic as a result of Mother Mary’s prayers for them. Yes, Mother Mary always point people to her Son, our Lord Jesus Christ.

Don’t get the wrong impression that we “out-source” our prayers to Mother Mary or the Saints….actually, we ask them to pray with us and for us…..and, we, as a Church, as a community worship one God. This is reflected in the creed that we recite every week at Mass.

Actually, the early protestant churches (including martin luther) has no problem with devotion to Mother Mary.

I never heard that St Joseph is pao ka liao…..?? Pao what?

Smarty Boy SG

I don’t know about this issue although you mentioned it before…did it happen at Holy Cross? What statue is changed? You mean Mother Mary’s Icon?

By the way, it will be good to know what the rosary is about……you will be surprised that it is all about Christ and not Mary if you know it.

It is not excuses…..it’s a tradition that has been passed down. It is not compulsory for Catholics to do Novenas or pray the rosary but why so many of them do? It is because it works and have been workings for centuries….

Smarty Boy SG

No…Mother Mary is not a “dead person” but are in heaven with Christ…enjoying eternal life…..

And yes, like you, all our prayers are directed to God alone.....with Mother Mary, all the Saints, our family and friends praying with us and for us.

Smarty Boy SG

this is the facts i see: you set up altars for statues of mother mary

you decorate her altar with flowers and bottles of holy water

she's dead (and will be called up at the end of days to be judged by Jesus, like every one of us)

Actually, you are right that we must honour Mother Mary for what she has done. The whole salvation plan started with Mother Mary and it is her obedience and faith in God that makes the birth of Christ possible…And God must have very good reasons to choose her as the mother of His only son.

She is human, she is mother of God and also our mother too...as Jesus said. At the wedding of Cana, she showed us her concern for what the wedding couple lack and interceded with Jesus to help.

Centuries of Novenas devotions are testimony that she still does and it works. For us, we treat her like our mother also and we know that she will help us when we ask….but she can only help us pray and intercede with Jesus. Only God can grant us what we pray for.

As I said earlier, Mother Mary is not a “dead person” but are in heaven with Christ…enjoying eternal life…..and helping and praying for us....

Smarty Boy SG

true as that may be, but it certainly isn't an excuse.

we're all salt and light in the world, ppl see the fruits of our belief and use that to see if what we believe is good or bad.

tts how it works.

now, i'm not discrediting catholics who are real in their faith - like mother theresa, father richards and alot of nuns and monks who devoted their lives to God. commendable really.

i'm just saying, that u can't use that as an excuse. protestant or catholic.

so what if you have fiery preachers, until you stop giving excuses and start doing things, then people's perspective will automatically change.

u know what really gets to me now - christians (protestant or catholic) with lousy anger management problem. full of pride.

they can see the verse Ephesians 6:1-4

but they only read the top part, and conveniently leaving out the bottom part which they have to apply themselves.

disgusting. and the person i'm refering to is a catholic.

Actually, there is no excuse for doing what we do. It is all about God and act of faith in Him….

Mother Mary, Saints, Rosary, Statues and Icons are all leading us to God….lack of understanding of what they are is the problem.

Thinking that having statues = idolatory is one such example.

One did not become perfect because he is a Catholic and the same goes for any faith. Disgusting and horrible people are found everywhere and in every faith.....it is not the fault of their faith and it certainly does not means that there is a problem with that faith.

Smarty Boy SG

no i don't. but even if it is, so what? the bible didn't say it. the only 3 ppl recorded in the bible to have their bodies personally handled by God are moses, elijah and Jesus.

why do you think during the transfiguration, only moses and elijah appeared?

if you believe sincerely that the bible is the word of God, wholly inspired by God, and if that was either true or important, wouldn't God have had that included in the bible?

Mother Mary was still on earth when transfiguration happened isn’t it?

God did include in the Bible. Quoting from Catholic.com:
“The possibility of a bodily assumption before the Second Coming is suggested by Matthew 27:52–53: "The tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many."

Did all these Old Testament saints die and have to be buried all over again? There is no record of that, but it is recorded by early Church writers that they were assumed into heaven, or at least into that temporary state of rest and happiness often called "paradise," where the righteous people from the Old Testament era waited until Christ’s resurrection (cf. Luke 16:22, 23:43; Heb. 11:1–40; 1 Pet. 4:6), after which they were brought into the eternal bliss of heaven.”

Finally, though we believed that the Bible is the Word of God, we need to be careful as "First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God" (2 Peter 1:20-21).

The assumption of Mary is considered false by protestant churches because it is not explicitly in Scripture but there is no problem so long as it is not in contradiction to Scripture.

The Catholic Church was commissioned by Christ to teach all nations and to teach them infallibly—guided, as he promised, by the Holy Spirit until the end of the world (John 14:26, 16:13). The mere fact that the Church teaches that something is definitely true is a guarantee that it is true (cf. Matt. 28:18-20, Luke 10:16, 1 Tim. 3:15).

Pennycake SG

http://www.anawim.pair.com/CATHOLICS/MARY.htm

http://www.ewtn.com/library/MARY/STTOMHMY.htm

Ave Maria, gratia plena,
Dominus tecum,
benedicta tu in mulieribus,
et benedictus fructus ventris tui Iesus.
Sancta Maria mater Dei,
ora pro nobis peccatoribus, nunc, et in hora mortis nostrae.
Amen

(St. Gabriel the Archangel)
Hail Mary, full of grace,
The Lord is with you,
(St. Elizabeth, cousin of Mary, mother of St. John the Baptist)
Blessed are you amongst women,
And blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus.
(The Church)
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
Pray for us sinners, now, and at the hour of our death.
Amen.

Slide 1 .O {color:#FFFFCC; font-size:149%;} a:link {color:#9C004E !important;} a:active {color:#56002B !important;} a:visited {color:#FF6600 !important;}

Mary is our Queen, O sing to her.
Mary is our Mother, trust in her.
Mary is the star that shines at night, (maris stella)
Guiding us to Jesus, our true Light.
Mary is the creature of our race
Whom the Holy Spirit filled with grace
To become the Mother of our Lord,
The God whom she adored.

(Luke 1:35)

As I said earlier, Mother Mary is not a “dead person” but are in heaven with Christ…enjoying eternal life…..and helping and praying for us....

[by the way I haven't figured out how to quote people with their names, could you teach me how? thanks =) ]

The problem is that to Protestants, once people die, they're in the hands of God and they don't need to pray for us nor we for them..

For Catholics, we have Purgatory (here comes another can of worms); the Church Militant on Earth prays for the Church Suffering in Purgatory, and when the Church Suffering gets to Heaven, the Church Triumphant prays for us the Church Militant..

dumbdumb! SG

http://www.anawim.pair.com/CATHOLICS/MARY.htm

http://www.ewtn.com/library/MARY/STTOMHMY.htm

(Luke 1:35)

[by the way I haven't figured out how to quote people with their names, could you teach me how? thanks =) ]

The problem is that to Protestants, once people die, they're in the hands of God and they don't need to pray for us nor we for them..

yep. so i'll just say "you believe what you need, and i'll believe what the bible tells me" makes life so much easier.

click on the gear picture at the top of my post. then click Reply/Quote

dumbdumb! SG

Actually, what do you see during Mass? Praying to Mary as God?

what i see is a woman bowing her head with hands claps together in front of a mary statue at st francis xavier.

dumbdumb! SG

It is not endless….because the truth is there for all to see. Like I said, falsehood that is repeated again and again is causing wrong impressions.

Actually, the early protestant churches (including martin luther) has no problem with devotion to Mother Mary.

I never heard that St Joseph is pao ka liao…..?? Pao what?

what i get annoyed with is, my gf would rather ask mother mary to pray for her rather than allow me to pray with her when she's going through something difficult.

i very much want to share my enthusiasm with her, prayer, reading bible together, learning together.

as for something that works. the jews still feel that their annual sacrifices work - but we know that now that Christ has come, the sacrifices don't work with God anymore.

my parents used to think that burning and drinking yellow paper with magical inscription works.

in the end, the truth must be more than "something that works". the truth is in the bible, the whole of it. read it, understand it, adsorb it, apply it.

dumbdumb! SG

Mother Mary was still on earth when transfiguration happened isn’t it?

sure, mother mary was still alive at that time. but if her bodily assumption was real/ or important, God would have written it in the bible after she has been bodily captured.

and that verses you quote did nothing to disprove that the fact that mother mary's bodily assumption was not recorded down in the bible.

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