monstrance and blessed scrament stolen

last SG · 2009-02-05T18:43:18+00:00

............................................And if you have dobuts in the Church, why go in the first place? You maybe hearing the wrong things.....and how...

Smarty Boy SG

what i see is a woman bowing her head with hands claps together in front of a mary statue at st francis xavier.

So what does that means?

She is simply asking Mother Mary to pray for her and with her. Nothing wrong as we are trying to point to you.

And my questions is, what you see at Mass...? Are we praying to God or Mother Mary?

If you do believed that we pray to God, then there is nothing wrong.

Smarty Boy SG

what i get annoyed with is, my gf would rather ask mother mary to pray for her rather than allow me to pray with her when she's going through something difficult.

i very much want to share my enthusiasm with her, prayer, reading bible together, learning together.

as for something that works. the jews still feel that their annual sacrifices work - but we know that now that Christ has come, the sacrifices don't work with God anymore.

my parents used to think that burning and drinking yellow paper with magical inscription works.

in the end, the truth must be more than "something that works". the truth is in the bible, the whole of it. read it, understand it, adsorb it, apply it.

You should try to separate your private life with your gf and the truth about the Catholic faith - no offence....

I don't know why your gf do not want to accept your help to pray for her....it's really something personal between you and her. But there is really nothing wrong with her trusting Mother Mary to help pray with her and for her. Perhaps, it is because of your anti-Catholics sentiments shown to her? I hope you can have a nice heart to heart talk with her and I am sure you can get over this problem.

As for your parent's old beliefs and what the Jews do, it has nothing to do with Mother Mary. The fact is, she has helped many and is still helping....and we know cause many of us have been helped by her too.

Everything that the Catholic Church teaches are in line with the Bible and what the apostles preaches. And the doctrines are applicable in our lives.....

Smarty Boy SG

sure, mother mary was still alive at that time. but if her bodily assumption was real/ or important, God would have written it in the bible after she has been bodily captured.

and that verses you quote did nothing to disprove that the fact that mother mary's bodily assumption was not recorded down in the bible.

Bible was never written by God in the first place....and some things described in the Bible may not happen as it was and may not have even happened in the first place.

I agreed that Mother Mary's assumption was never recorded in the Bible but the teaching does not contradict the Bible as I last mentioned.

Reformation and sola scriptura are not recorded in the Bible too.....

Miracles&Prophecies SG

Bible was never written by God in the first place....and some things described in the Bible may not happen as it was and may not have even happened in the first place.

Well I would like to put it that some things which are described in the bible are misinterpreted by us. They did happen. Otherwise you could doubt every verse in the bible and not long Jesus didn't die on the cross and is not the Messiah.

Remember that the Pharisee who were supposed to be knowledgable in the scriptures didn't recognise Jesus. They misinterpreted the scriptures because they were stubbornly sure of its meaning. Thus they rejected Jesus and cast out any Jew who believed in Jesus as the Messiah from their synagoges. Though they read the whole scriptures even to the point of memorising them they failed to grasp its meaning.

dumbdumb! SG

Bible was never written by God in the first place....and some things described in the Bible may not happen as it was and may not have even happened in the first place.

this is a very dangerous statement. i give u time to reconsider what u just said.

Smarty Boy SG

I think we are not talking about the same thing. Not everything that is in the Bible happened exactly as it is and that is an accepted fact....bearing in mind these are events that are pass down orally....and some events are probaly never happened.

However, the messages and teachings that the stories is telling us is the truth. I agree that some people have misinterpreted the Bible especially if we try to read it on our own based on our own understanding. But I believe that the Church teaches us the absolute truth based on the Bible. I believed that only the Church has the correct intepretation of the Bible.

Smarty Boy SG

this is a very dangerous statement. i give u time to reconsider what u just said.

Bible is indeed not written by God but by people who are inspired by Him....

dumbdumb! SG

Bible is indeed not written by God but by people who are inspired by Him....

Ah, so God inspires people to write the bible, but God is really careless and allows historical facts to be in it.

Bible was never written by God in the first place....and some things described in the Bible may not happen as it was and may not have even happened in the first place.

sure, you want to tell me that Jesus didn't die on the cross, maybe he died erm. on the flag pole?

Miracles&Prophecies SG

I believed that only the Church has the correct intepretation of the Bible.

Well I believe you're wrong, the church used to use the bible reason to defend the belief that earth was the center of the universe.

That is one mistake too many if you say that only the Catholic church has the correct interpretaton of the bible. Well basically if you put too much power in the hands of few people for life, corruption is sure to take place among those few people.

The catholic church consists of men too. Men which could make mistakes. The unwillingness to admit that the Catholic church had made many past mistakes on the part of its congregation is a sign of foolish ignorance and fanatism. Salvation doesn't come from the Catholic church ar any other churches, salvation came from Jesus Christ. No pastor or bishop or even pope could raise us to life everlasting if we do not repent. Even in confession the one who abolishes our sins is Christ.

Otherwise no Protestant could approach God which we all know to be untrue.

Smarty Boy SG

Ah, so God inspires people to write the bible, but God is really careless and allows historical facts to be in it.

Bible was never written by God in the first place....and some things described in the Bible may not happen as it was and may not have even happened in the first place.

sure, you want to tell me that Jesus didn't die on the cross, maybe he died erm. on the flag pole?

since when did I said that Jesus die on a flag pole?

Yes, some things described in the Bible may not happen as it was and may not have even happened in the first place. However, the messages and teachings that the stories is telling us is the truth.

Don't see why historicals facts cannot be in it....and don't see any relationship at all.

Smarty Boy SG

Well I believe you're wrong, the church used to use the bible reason to defend the belief that earth was the center of the universe.

Otherwise no Protestant could approach God which we all know to be untrue.

I am not sure about your perspective but the Church do believe that there are salvation outside the Church. It is the protestant churches that do not agree.....

Yes, salvation is only possible through the sacrifice of Christ and it applies to protestant churches too....

And yes, I believed only the Catholic church has the correct interpretaton of the bible though I am willing to understand other's point of view.

However, take caution that it is absolute right only to me which is why I embrace it.I think dumbdumb might remember that I said before, look at what is more reasonable and convincing to you......

The same applies to dumbdumb who must surely believed that only his church has the correct interpretation. Otherwise, it would not make sense to believe in the doctrines and doubts others....for one to be right, the other must be wrong.

Every church her own leadership.....even in the smallest church, so what is putting "too much power in the hands of few people" ??

dumbdumb! SG

I am not sure about your perspective but the Church do believe that there are salvation outside the Church. It is the protestant churches that do not agree.....

Yes, salvation is only possible through the sacrifice of Christ and it applies to protestant churches too....

And yes, I believed only the Catholic church has the correct interpretaton of the bible though I am willing to understand other's point of view.

However, take caution that it is absolute right only to me which is why I embrace it.I think dumbdumb might remember that I said before, look at what is more reasonable and convincing to you......

Every church her own leadership.....even in the smallest church, so what is putting "too much power in the hands of few people" ??

how arrogant. do all catholics think that only the catholic church has the right interpretation? even when they have been proven wrong?

you arrogantly believe that the pope is infallable, but quite a number screwed up.

you believe that your interpretation of doctrine is correct, but it's also proven wrong in a number of ways.

sometimes i feel it's just that you're just insisting to be right, even when you're wrong.

and now you tell me that the bible is not reliable.

win liao lor

even i don't think that my pastor is infallable, nor do i think that only protestants have the right interpretation

Smarty Boy SG

how arrogant. do all catholics think that only the catholic church has the right interpretation? even when they have been proven wrong?

you arrogantly believe that the pope is infallable, but quite a number screwed up.

you believe that your interpretation of doctrine is correct, but it's also proven wrong in a number of ways.

sometimes i feel it's just that you're just insisting to be right, even when you're wrong.

and now you tell me that the bible is not reliable.

win liao lor

even i don't think that my pastor is infallable, nor do i think that only protestants have the right interpretation

I think you are not reading the post in proper context.

Of course I believed that the Catholic Churches teaches the absolute right. As I said, absolute right to me.

Why would you want to be in a protestant church and do not believe that your church is teaching and preaching to you the absolute truth?

And I thought you recently wrote something about being 100% true to your conviction and do not agree on deviation.....

I don't think it is a matter of being arrogant but rather faith. If you do not believe 100% in Christ and the Church He build, how can you say you have faith? Whatever church you go, you need to believed 100%.

For me, I can accept protestant as I mentioned to you before, I am not here to convert you (or anyone) to become a Catholic. What we share is based on what we know...and what we don't know, we can go find out.

At the end of the day, we choose what is more convincing to us about the truth and we embrace it whole-heartedly. Catholic or protestant, we worship the same God isn't it?

I am certainly not anti-protestant and there is no need to....being anti-protestant does not make Catholic correct. Understanding the doctrine will.

Which doctrine did you proved that we are wrong but I insist?

And no, I never said that bible is not reliable....NEVER.....and I do believe the teachings 100%.

Miracles&Prophecies SG

I am not sure about your perspective but the Church do believe that there are salvation outside the Church. It is the protestant churches that do not agree.....

Yes, salvation is only possible through the sacrifice of Christ and it applies to protestant churches too....

And yes, I believed only the Catholic church has the correct interpretaton of the bible though I am willing to understand other's point of view.

However, take caution that it is absolute right only to me which is why I embrace it.I think dumbdumb might remember that I said before, look at what is more reasonable and convincing to you......

Every church her own leadership.....even in the smallest church, so what is putting "too much power in the hands of few people" ??

I see . . .the catholic church held dominion over Christian kings and the people's daily lives in the middle ages. That's the kind of power that is vulnerable of becoming corrupted. And it is no secret that it had become much corrupted.

And actually i've found that in order for my church doctrines to be correct the others may not necessarily be wrong. Or in precise words, In order to believe my church doctrines to be at least partially correct the others may not necessarily be wholly wrong.

I pick this stand to keep an open mind. If you notice, the Catholic church doctrine has changed over time and we can expect it to continually evolve no matter how little. The Early church doctrine on death is not the same with the current Catholic doctrine on the same topic for example. So you see either the early church was wrong or the current doctrine is wrong. Or they both may be partially correct.

Anyway I put no stock in doctrines either state or religious. In fact I put no stock in religion nor state. I'm a simple man just putting my faith in Christ. I hate neither Catholic(I'm one) nor Protestant. And I think they are both great. Of course bad apples are everywhere. And I firmly believe that Christian IS NOT a religion. It's a way of life.

Pennycake SG

click on the gear picture at the top of my post. then click Reply/Quote

Thanks!! =D

if you believe sincerely that the bible is the word of God, wholly inspired by God, and if that was either true or important, wouldn't God have had that included in the bible?

Not everything is found in the Bible. The Bible is only half of it. The Bible is our written tradition, written, compiled and interpreted by the Catholic Church. The other half is our oral tradition - the Sacraments: Eucharist (Mass), Baptism, Confirmation, Holy Matrimony, Holy Orders, Anointing of the Sick, Reconciliation (Confession).

If you have some free time, you may like to try this exercise: http://www.fisheaters.com/challenge.html ("A challenge to all Christians! Is your Bible-based religion really Bible-based?") I'd be interested to hear your views on it.

Bible was never written by God in the first place....and some things described in the Bible may not happen as it was and may not have even happened in the first place.

What he means is, the Bible is a book of religious truth, not scientific truth, and at certain points, like the Creation story (there are actually 2 Creation stories in Genesis, written by 2 different pple at different times), it uses allegory to speak to us, not history.

Originally posted by dumbdumb!:

you arrogantly believe that the pope is infallable, but quite a number screwed up.

Ok I will copy and paste my comments on a blog post (http://wooq.blogspot.com/2005/08/theological-response-to-fcbc-and-its.html) -

Yes, we have the doctrine of papal infallibility (not impeccability, which is quite different... the Pope is perfectly human and goes for weekly Confession) - which is why we are One Church, not many. (if you disagree on major issues with your spiritual leader, how could you purport to share the same faith?)
The Pope is infallible not through his own merit, but by the action of the Holy Spirit, and his authority can be traced in visible unity of the apostolic succession from St. Peter, who received his authority from Christ: You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church.
http://www.catholic.com/library/Peter_the_Rock.asp
'This authority of the prime minister under the king was passed on from one man to another down through the ages by the giving of the keys, which were worn on the shoulder as a sign of authority. Likewise, the authority of Peter has been passed down for 2000 years by means of the papacy.'

In any case, the Pope is only infallible in certain cases.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/5355758.stm

The agreement reached by the Council stated that a Pope "when he speaks ex cathedra" - that is, as head of the Church - is "possessed of infallibility" when "he defines.... a doctrine concerning faith and morals to be held by the whole Church".

Once the Pope has spoken, the First Vatican Council agreed, his definitions "are irreformable of themselves".

Routine papal teaching, however, is not considered infallible.

And such infallible proclamations are highly uncommon. According to papal historian Michael Walsh there has only been one occasion since the council proclamation when a pope has made an infallible statement.

...
To issue an infallible statement "you make a dogmatic statement 'ex cathedra' from the chair of Peter".

...
And, if the Pope rarely issues an infallible statement, why is it necessary? According to Mr Walsh, it's all down to the way the Church is structured.

"The Catholic Church is really a federation of churches," he says. "Each bishop rules his own diocese, but all those bishops are united in the Pope, as the Bishop of Rome.

"The bishops are supposed to be united in faith, but when there is division over theological issues, the argument is that the one person who can never fall away from the faith is the pope. He, in a sense, maintains the true faith and will be prevented by the Holy Spirit of 'going into error'."

-=+=-

The Catholic Church is like a wheel - the Vatican is the hub, and each diocese is at the end of a spoke.. but it is one wheel, and thus we roll along..

Happy Sts. Cyril and Methodius' Day =D and of course, St. Valentine's Day! (there are actually 3 different St. Valentines commemorated today.)

Omnia SG

Well I believe you're wrong, the church used to use the bible reason to defend the belief that earth was the center of the universe.

how arrogant. do all catholics think that only the catholic church has the right interpretation? even when they have been proven wrong?

you arrogantly believe that the pope is infallable, but quite a number screwed up.

you believe that your interpretation of doctrine is correct, but it's also proven wrong in a number of ways. ...

We need to understand the scope of the teaching authority of the Catholic Church. Jesus Christ established the Catholic Church and gave it the authority to teach faith and morals. St Paul describes the Church (not the bible) as the "pillar and foundation of truth" (1Tim3:15). When there are disputes, Jesus tells us that the final arbitrator is the Church which is given the authority to bind and to loose on earth ("If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector. Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." Mat 18:17)

So when the Catholic Church teaches on faith and morals, we listen and follow.

But beyond faith and morals (eg: science, politics) the Church does not have this teaching authority. The Church's mission is to bring souls to heaven, not groom scientists or astronomers. This teaching authority is also not dependent on how holy or good the pope and his bishops are. Even St Peter and the apostles were sinful men who denied and deserted Jesus at this death, yet we treat their letters as the inspired word of God in the bible.

How and when has the Catholic Church's interpretation of doctrine been proven wrong ? Miracles&Prophecies mentions contradictions in current church teachings on death with that of the early church. Could you explain more about these contradictions ?

Put it another way, if we do not believe the Catholic Church to have this teaching authority, who are we to turn to in order to learn the truth ? The bible ? Who's interpretation of the bible are we suppose to follow ? Mine ? Yours ? The pastor of the church down the road ? The one three blocks away ?

Did Jesus leave all of us to fumble around and try to discern the truth on our own, and follow whichever teaching we ourselves feel good about ? How are we to follow Jesus' words in Mat18:17 to go to the Church ? Which Church would that be ?

Smarty Boy SG

I disagree.....if you do suspect that the Church is partially correct, then why do you embrace them? The fact that you think they are partially correct showed that you are unsure....

If you read what I said, I said it is absolute truth and correct to me. I am fully convinced by my Church and I embraced it whole-heartedly. The Church do not teach me partial truth but absolute truth.

Would you have put your faith in Christ if you think He is only partially true?? And that the athesist may also be partially wrong only??

I don't hate protestant (or athesists) as well....and I have many family members and friends who are non-Catholics (protestants as well as other faith believers).

To say that I am right and the other must be wrong is not about being arrogant here. My doctrine is right and other must be wrong. There can't be 2 rights......

But that does not mean I do not have an open mind, if someone can prove to me beyond doubts that the Catholic doctrines are wrong, I will leave the Church.

I believed that Christ is true and God has revealed the truth to us. With everyone claiming to be right, who is right?

To me personally, the Catholic Church has convinced me that she is preaching the truth, not just by what they said but also what they do....and my perssonal experiences with God simply reaffirm that to me.

Are you a "stay at home Catholic" or one that goes to weekly Mass?

Christianity is a religion and way of life and putting our faith in Christ means listening to His words and acting on it. I.E. living our Christian life based on love and charity. Our Church is Christ and our fellow brothers and sisters.

Smarty Boy SG

you arrogantly believe that the pope is infallable, but quite a number screwed up.

I think you still have the misconception that the Catholic Church is about the Pope.

The Pope is only the head of the Church and a successor of St Peter.....the Church is about Christ and His followers....

Smarty Boy SG

Pennycake and Omnia, thanks for helping to explain....and it would be nice to hear from dumbdumb which doctrine he is refering to...

sand king SG

I read that during a black mass (aka satan worshipper's parody of our catholic mass), a host (which was stolen) is placed into a woman's vagina (they use the vagina as a parody of our tabernacle) and their "priest" will start having sex with that woman..

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