Blood Sacrifice

last SG · 2013-01-20T16:32:12+00:00

If God exists, then God would have told us how to get right with Him. Surely this would have implications for your 8 fold path. Buddha did not claim to hear...

zeus29 SG

I think you overlooked one difference, Jesus did not remain dead. He rose on the third day.

but Gautama Buddha remained dead?

Steveyboy SG

Well if Jesus was still alive, he would still be with us right now. The only thing saying that he resurrected is the bible. If Jesus could do it, why can't he do it for any of the Christians since his time. I have not heard of anybody who was resurrected from the dead except in zombie movies. Pardon my irreverence here. ; )

sinweiy SG

I think you have confused resurrection with resuscitation.

ok, either which it's still within context, rather than common eyes.

i know of a true story: the wife of the "founder" of the paper burning custom, who died and was already in the coffin, but later came to life, after a few days. maybe shd worship her too?

BroInChrist SG

i guess sames goes to jesus, too. no?

No, not at all.

Unlike Buddha, Jesus NEVER denied His humanity. In fact, anyone reading the Gospels cannot fail to see that in all aspects Jesus was 100% man. He never denied He was human, but He never said He was just a mere man. He made claims to be God. He was God in human flesh.

http://creation.com/incarnation-why-god-became-man

BroInChrist SG

but Gautama Buddha remained dead?

Yes. http://www.budsas.org/ebud/ebsut006.htm

sinweiy SG

Yes. http://www.budsas.org/ebud/ebsut006.htm

within our context:-

Wonderful Dharma Lotus Sutra

Chapter Sixteen -- The Thus Come One's Life Span

Quote:-

At that time, the World Honored One, wishing to restate this meaning, spoke verses, saying,

From the time I attained Buddhahood,
The eons that have passed
Are limitless hundreds of thousands of myriads
Of kotis of asamkhyeyas in number.
I always speak the Dharma to teach and transform
Countless millions of living beings,
So they enter the Buddha Way.
And throughout these limitless eons,
In order to save living beings,
I expediently manifest Nirvana.
But in truth I do not pass into quiescence.
I remain here, always speaking the Dharma.
I always stay right here,

http://www.fodian.net/world/0262_16.html

BroInChrist SG

Yes, Jesus is still with us, but not in the flesh, since He has ascended to heaven. He said to His disciples in Matthew after He rose from the dead and before ascending to heaven, "I will be with you always until the end of the age."

Of course you have not heard of anyone who was resurrected, except Jesus. I am sure you heard of that, right? That's what Good Friday and Easter Sunday is all about. Zombie? Too much movies lah. Anyway, you need to understand what resurrection is. It is not resuscitation, nor is it zombie.

BroInChrist SG

ok, either which it's still within context, rather than common eyes.

i know of a true story: the wife of the "founder" of the paper burning custom, who died and was already in the coffin, but later came to life, after a few days. maybe shd worship her too?

Source of your true story please.

BroInChrist SG

within our context:-

Wonderful Dharma Lotus Sutra

Chapter Sixteen -- The Thus Come One's Life Span

Quote:-

http://www.fodian.net/world/0262_16.html

The article began with "AT THAT TIME the Buddha spoke to the Bodhisattvas and the entire great assembly..."

When was this? Where did this take place?

Who were the Bodhisattvas he spoke to and the great assembly?

sinweiy SG

The article began with "AT THAT TIME the Buddha spoke to the Bodhisattvas and the entire great assembly..."

When was this? Where did this take place?

Who were the Bodhisattvas he spoke to and the great assembly?

Buddhism use "AT THAT TIME" because, we believe time is illusive. India at that time also don't have calender. Lotus Sutra emphasis on timelessness while another Avatamsaka Sutra emphasis on spacelessness.

Lotus sutra also mentioned that one who encounter the Dharma, will in the future attain Buddhahood. a "seed" will be planted into the 'stored' consciousness.

Bodhisattvas can be "spiritual" beings or those practicing the dharma of compassion. remind me of ur angels?

BroInChrist SG

Lotus sutra also mentioned that one who encounter the Dharma, will in the further attain Buddhahood. a "seed" will be planted into the 'stored' consciousness.

Bodhisattvas can be "spiritual" beings or those practicing the dharma of compassion. remind me of ur angels?

So you cannot ground that event in any historical real-life setting?

zeus29 SG

I wanted to post the same thing http://nichiren.info/buddhism/lotussutra/text/chap16.html

In my humble opinion, Gautama Buddha was in flesh until the end. The enlightenment referred to his mind. His mind became free and there was no need to find another host (rebirth) because he had successfully destroyed all his sankara through Vipassana meditation. Hence, it was his last rebirth. His human vessel would be subjected to human conditions, don't you think?

Once he had reached enlightenment, he expounded many other ways to reach enlightenment as well eg Theravada, Mahayana, vajrayana, tantrayana, pure land etc.

Also, Buddhists are not really concerned with creation etc. What difference would it make? During Buddha's time, when asked about creator etc, he remained silent. Our own liberation is through our own effort. We have to walk our own path. For example, someone shot you in the leg with a poison arrow, do you go running around looking for the accomplice or do you treat your wound?

Metaphorically, suppose you are transported to an unknown forest. The Buddha cleared the walk path and showed the way. Bodhisattvas are our guides and assistance on standby along the path. The Dhama is like streetlight and runway lights lighting the way. Would it be beneficial to look for the person who transported you to the forest or walk the path and find the way out?

[imdestinyz] SG

Also, Buddhists are not really concerned with creation etc.

thats the difference b/w the 2 religions. Overly emphasis and non emphasis. Where the overly emphasis cannot accept a non emphasis approach

zeus29 SG

In my humble opinion, the question of whether the Buddha is still here in flesh or not in flesh is irrelevant.

Suppose one is ill and the doctor has prescribed certain medicine for the illness. One will not get cured by keep visiting the doctor and pay respect and offer garlands of flowers, right? One will get cured by taking the actual medicine and by taking the medicine, one is paying respect and homage to the doctor.

In Buddhism, we believe everyone has the seed of buddhahood and Gautama Buddha is one of many who successfully cultivated his innate buddhahood and blossomed. he showed us that we, too can achieve what he had achieved and the way to achieve it. The noble eigthfold path is a great way to practise.

sinweiy SG

So you cannot ground that event in any historical real-life setting?

first it's in the sutra, second if it was grounded, then it would opposite to the teaching of timelessness. the Lotus sutra, said that the sermon is still on going now. record show that lated Master Lian Chi went into a meditative samathi and witness Lord Buddha still doing the talking.

BroInChrist SG

In my humble opinion, the question of whether the Buddha is still here in flesh or not in flesh is irrelevant.

I think the point I wanted to raise was just that suffering and death did not end for Buddha after his enlightenment. He also succumbed to that eventually, like every other person.

Buddha's silence about the Creator does not render the subject irrelevant or not. It's like going into a cinema halfway through the screening. What difference does it make? Huge! You would be lost and confused, and you would prefer to know what happened at the beginning. You can of course be nonchalant about it and say "who cares?" but 10 other people may reply "We care even if you don't."

In Australia, if you are bitten by a venomous spider, you would realise how important it is to who WHAT species of spider bit you. You would die soon if you just tell the doctor, "Why in the world you want to know what bit me? It's not important! Treat me now!" The doctor would show you 50 bottles of anti-venom, you want all 50 needles to puncture your backside in quick succession? Or just the right one given the right description of the spider that bit you?

Buddha claimed to show the way. Jesus claimed "I Am the Way."

BroInChrist SG

Even though Jesus' teachings are in the Bible, His teachings are founded in time and space i.e. it occurred at real places at real times in front of real people, within those 3 years of ministry.

sinweiy SG

Even though Jesus' teachings are in the Bible, His teachings are founded in time and space i.e. it occurred at real places at real times in front of real people, within those 3 years of ministry.

i mean 'grounded' as in dated, which year, month, day, time etc. u also don't have calender. Buddha and his disciples were also a real people. The relics and tooth relic are still here.

sinweiy SG

Source of your true story please.

lated Ven Shen Kai, AEN's master's master. used to be a pastor before He became a Buddhist monk. however, when i look up, the story was different from what i heard.

The origin of the joss paper
In the olden days, the common people used hemp stalks as toilet paper while the rich used very rough paper. The rough paper resembles the present day's joss paper that is used as offering in the Seventh Lunar Month. But, it is clear that merits come from the sincerity of the heart and not the actual offering itself. Therefore, the burning of joss paper is a waste, a potential fire risk, and a source of environmental pollution.

Once, a man from Jiayi came to Hualien to see me. He told me, "Master, every year, I use to burn more than ten thousand dollars worth of joss papers." I asked, "Why would you do that?" He answered, "I fall ill often, and the mediums told me that I must burn joss paper to regain health."

Just a few days prior to his visit, he had burnt a full truck-load of joss paper, costing him NT$80,000. "Did you regain your health after that?" I asked him. "No, and I almost burnt myself due to the heat, and felt exhausted for the next three days. I did not feel any better. This is why my friend brought me here to seek your advice!"

Then I told him a story about burning joss paper as offering:

Once there was a couple who lived by selling paper. Business was not good, and there was a lot of stock. The wife thought of a scheme to sell the paper. Her husband pretended to die, and she cried loudly to attract the attention of her neighbours.

As people crowded into her house, she performed a ritual. She placed an iron bucket and started to burn bundles of paper in it as paper money for her 'deceased' husband to take along on his journey to the next world.

It was arranged that he would sit up in the coffin, and announce loudly: As my wife has burnt so much joss paper for me, I now have a light leading me back to the house. And the wife would exclaim in delight, "Hear what he said! Burning joss paper is like lighting up his path, and he has come back again." Naturally, the piled up stock was sold out in no time. The legend then spread and lived on to become a tradition and ritual until today.

Having understood the background of the tradition, we should think twice about continuing such practices. Is it worthwhile to waste money and resources that are not only potential fire hazards but also affect health and pollute the environment?

Lecture by Master Cheng Yen
Translated by Goh Hwe Yong

http://tw.tzuchi.org/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=149%3Athe-auspicious-seventh-lunar-month-&catid=82%3Amasterteachings&Itemid=199&lang=en

but am sure got other cases.

the point is resuscitation can be mistaken as "resurrection".

zeus29 SG

By "going into a cinema", I suppose you consciously make the decision to enter the cinema running halfway through, right? If you are the one making decision, why enter while halfway through? Why not watch another movie or come earlier or watch another day?

Err.. pretty obvious since we don't have better apparatus to identify the poison, right? What if the doctor is skillful and perhaps, he was bitten by the same spider? He is able to to identify the symptoms peculiar to this spider's venom and he is able to prescribe the anti-venom. Now that the doctor has presribed the anti-venom, do you take it or do you go running looking for the spider and perhaps, ask why?

What about the metaphor earlier?

"Metaphorically, suppose you are transported to an unknown forest. The Buddha cleared the walk path and showed the way. Bodhisattvas are our guides and assistance on standby along the path. The Dhama is like streetlight and runway lights lighting the way. Would it be beneficial to look for the person who transported you to the forest or walk the path and find the way out?"

Buddha claimed to show the way. Jesus claimed "I Am the Way."

Which is?

Even though Jesus' teachings are in the Bible, His teachings are founded in time and space i.e. it occurred at real places at real times in front of real people, within those 3 years of ministry

As per someone else's account. None of us were there. Buddhist teachings were officially written down 500 years later. I'm not sure about the rest but personally, I don't take everything literally. I'm more concerned about its essence, the main message of the teaching.

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