Blood Sacrifice

last SG · 2013-01-20T16:32:12+00:00

If God exists, then God would have told us how to get right with Him. Surely this would have implications for your 8 fold path. Buddha did not claim to hear...

BroInChrist SG

lated Ven Shen Kai, AEN's master's master. used to be a pastor before He became a Buddhist monk. however, when i look up, the story was different from what i heard.

http://tw.tzuchi.org/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=149%3Athe-auspicious-seventh-lunar-month-&catid=82%3Amasterteachings&Itemid=199&lang=en

but am sure got other cases.

So it is not a true account of a confirmed dead person who came back to life a few days later?

sinweiy SG

So it is not a true account of a confirmed dead person who came back to life a few days later?

other cases, i don't know. the point is, since health science was not so advance during then, resuscitation can be mistaken as "resurrection".

BroInChrist SG

By "going into a cinema", I suppose you consciously make the decision to enter the cinema running halfway through, right? If you are making a decision, why enter while halfway through? why not watch another movie or come earlier or watch another day?

Err.. pretty obvious since we don't have better apparatus to identify the poison, right? What if the doctor is skillful and perhaps, he was bitten by the same spider? He is able to to identify the symptoms peculiar to this specific spider's venom and he is able to prescribe the anti-venom. Now that the doctor has presribe the anti-venom, do you take it or do you go running looking for the spider and perhaps, ask why?

What about the metaphor earlier?

"Metaphorically, suppose you are transported to an unknown forest. The Buddha cleared the walk path and showed the way. Bodhisattvas are our guides and assistance on standby along the path. The Dhama is like streetlight and runway lights lighting the way. Would it be beneficial to look for the person who transported you to the forest or walk the path and find the way out?"

which is?

as per someone else's account. none of us were there. Buddhist teachings were officially written down 500 years later. I'm not sure about the rest but personally, I don't take everything literally. I'm more concerned about its essence, the main message of the teaching.

1. Re the cinema illustration, you missed the point. The point is that origins is not an irrelevant issue. It is also not whether you think creation matters or not, but whether creation is true. Your attitude towards this issue is irrelevant to the truth of the issue. If there is a Creator, then this fact has implications for our lives even if you personally think there is none.

2. Re the spider bite, it proves the point that it is still important to know WHAT bit you. Even if you don't know, the doctor knows (and you are just lucky he happens to know!), and that is an important fact to know which makes a life and death difference.

3. Re the metaphor, it is important to find out how you got into the forest. Who transported you there and why. Just because someone claimed to have cleared the path doesn't mean much. Imagine this person claiming to find the path out of the forest eventually is found by you dead as well. What hope is there for you?

4. The Way that Jesus showed is that only through Jesus can one find salvation.

5. Buddha's writings were indeed written many centuries after Buddha died, but Jesus' words were recorded in the Gospels within decades, by EYEWITNESSES.

BroInChrist SG

other cases, i don't know. the point is, since health science was not so advance during then, resuscitation can be mistaken as "resurrection".

Then the onus would be on you to show that Jesus' resurrection was in fact a resuscitation. A lawyer by the name of Frank Morrison tried that, and he became a Christian. See http://www.gospeltruth.net/whomovedthestone.htm

zeus29 SG

What if creation is true or not? What does it change? What are the implications? We're still here. Suffering is still here. As explained by the Buddha, our suffering originates from our own attachment and aversion.

You believe in the creator, right? What are the implications? You're still here. You still suffer from ups and downs, attachment and aversion like all of us who don't believe/emphasize on the creator, don't you?

Your reason of finding the spider is to tell the doctor which spider had bitten you so he could give you the right anti-venom, right? What if the doctor is skillful enough and had went through the same thing and could identify all the symptoms and could gave you medicine accordingly without even looking for the spider. Do you take it or go looking for the spider? The spider is not going to give you an antidote, the doctor will.

How about what if you're kidnapped, made unconscious and later found yourself left in a forest? There's a footpath left by someone (the buddha) and lights (dharma) lighting the way. Do you walk the path or go searching for the kidnappers? As mentioned earlier, Gautama Buddha's human vessel was subjected to human conditions. Even though, his human vessel is no longer here, his dharma continue to lit the path. His teaching is very much alive and relevant even to this day. In his last moments, the buddha advised us to focus on the teaching rather than the person.

4. The Way that Jesus showed is that only through Jesus can one find salvation.

So, he showed the way, too. right? However, his approach is different as one can only go to heaven through jesus no matter how much good deeds one has done.

Noble eightfold path is quite impartial and very non-exclusive.

1. Right view

2. Right intention

3. Right speech

4. Right action

5. Right livelihood

6. Right effort

7. Right mindfulness

8. Right concentration

5. Buddha's writings were indeed written many centuries after Buddha died, but Jesus' words were recorded in the Gospels within decades, by EYEWITNESSES.

Again, as per someone else's account that they were eyewitnesses or there were eyewitnesses. One can only trust.

sinweiy SG

...

or coma.

now then i read what is resuscitation.

BroInChrist SG

or coma.

now then i read what is resuscitation.

So Jesus went into a coma? What is the chance of crucifying a person, then piercing his side with a spear (blood and water coming out is sign of death), and then putting him into a tomb for three days without medical attention, then for that person to roll away a 2-tonne stone and proclaim he rose from the dead?

Do you think Jesus is a liar?

zeus29 SG

Do you think Jesus is a liar?

Did he proclaim he rose from the dead after doing so or did someone else proclaim he rose from the dead and ascended to heaven physically?

[imdestinyz] SG

there is no ways to prove the rising from dead. It being factual anot i believe it is still an area for debate.

zeus29 SG

How about another metaphor?

Suppose, you suffer from hunger. There is Jamie Oliver's cookbook on the table and all the ingredients required are there, too. The only way to overcome your hunger (suffering) is by following the instruction and do the actual cooking and eating. Even if Jamie Oliver was there and showed you everything personally or perhaps, even cooked for you, you still need to eat by yourself to overcome hunger. Or suppose Jamie Oliver spoon-fed you, you'd still need to do the chewing and swallowing. Right?

What good is it to look for the vegetable seller or the farmer? It won't overcome your hunger.

sinweiy SG

Do you think Jesus is a liar?

why would i said he liar, to us Jesus could be a bodhisattva(that used his life to help other people). what i am sceptical is the followers' misinterpretation of his teaching after that. could be due to politics etc. i prefer the mystic one.

passing through wall can be a spiritual power thingy that a bodhisattva can have.

zeus29 SG

there is no ways to prove the rising from dead. It being factual anot i believe it is still an area for debate.

Yup. Also the enigma of Jesus' lost yeas. Some said he was in Tibet/India etc.

BroInChrist SG

How about another metaphor?

What good is it to look for the vegetable seller or the farmer? It won't overcome your hunger.

This is a very good example that reflects the salvation freely offered by Christ! Jesus came to give us "food", He is the Bread of Life. But we must believe and by faith accept the gracious offer of salvation which Jesus paid for with His own life. We must "partake" of Him, as the Bible so teaches.

BroInChrist SG

Did he proclaim he rose from the dead after doing so or did someone else proclaim he rose from the dead and ascended to heaven physically?

During His ministry Jesus told His disciples that He would be handed over to be killed but that He would rise from the dead, just like Jonah was in the belly of the great fish for 3 days. After His resurrection He appeared to numerous people, and was taken up into heaven before EYEWITNESSES who later recorded it down.

BroInChrist SG

there is no ways to prove the rising from dead. It being factual anot i believe it is still an area for debate.

The resurrection is the best explanation to account for the existence of the church. All other attempts to undermine the historicity of the resurrection utterly fails.

BroInChrist SG

passing through wall can be a spiritual power thingy that a bodhisattva can have.

Which begs the question, on what basis do you assume that His followers misinterpreted His teachings? Why should we believe that you might have the correct interpretation, by which you can judge that believers have misinterpreted?

BroInChrist SG

Yup. Also the enigma of Jesus' lost yeas. Some said he was in Tibet/India etc.

There is no enigma at all. People who promote this kind of ideas are IMO out to make a quick buck. Sad to say they often succeed. Anyway, it is very easy to demolish this kind of ideas. One can easily quote Scripture to refute such ideas.

An Eternal Now SG

4. The Way that Jesus showed is that only through Jesus can one find salvation.

5. Buddha's writings were indeed written many centuries after Buddha died, but Jesus' words were recorded in the Gospels within decades, by EYEWITNESSES.

5. Nonsense.

Loppon Namdrol/Malcolm:

"...And please spare us the "buddhas teachings were not written down until..."First of all, this is false. Worst case scenario, Buddha's teachings were written down 150 years after his parinirvana (dates of Asokha pillars), which best scholarship places 407-400 BCE. But it is very likely that the earliest sutras were being written down within 50 years.

Mahayana sutras were almost certainly later compositions.

Tantras later than that.

But the one thing all these teachings share is a common thread of rebirth, karma, and dependent origination which are the cause of samsara, and the breaking of rebirth and karma through understanding dependent origination, which gauranteed freedom from rebirth in this or at most seven rebirths.

All those people who think they will attain awakening withotu understanding Buddha's actual teachings on this subject are deluded."

An Eternal Now SG

The first council convened within weeks of Buddha's parinirvana to compile and recite the entire Buddha's teachings with the presence of 500 monks all of whom are enlightened and liberated arahants in the council to make sure everything is right. Ananda, Buddha's attendant with photographic memory recited most of the suttas.

Afterwards it is transmitted orally via a very systematic way of group recitation among all the various monastic communities and very soon it is written down.

In any case, the entire pali canon is very consistent throughout and shows not much indication of corruption or editing... and we can be reasonably sure were accurately representing the original words of Buddha.

Mahayana sutras/tantra etc is another story and they can come from visions, etc from a pretty late era. These latter texts were not accepted in the Theravada tradition which seeks to preserve what they consider to be the 'authentic/original teachings of Buddha' and not from external sources. While late schools like Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism seeks to expound what they believe to be the spirit of Buddhism than being too strict on the orthodoxy/letter of words.

BroInChrist SG

So this answer http://www.pabuddhistvihara.net/uploads/Q25transmitCanon.pdf is nonsense?

« Previous Page Next Page »