Certainty of Being

last SG · 2010-04-21T15:16:13+00:00

If you find out what is a non conceptual thought, what is the essence of the mind at rest, it may be revealed that it is that same powerful presence and cert...

likeyou SG

Thanks Dawn for your links.

Lmspks is too far away from my home.

I will surf the other link.

Thanks very much.

An Eternal Now SG

Yes.

"How am I experiencing the moment of being alive?" -- aliveness
"How am I experiencing the moment of hearing?" -- sound
"How am I experiencing the moment of seeing?" -- scenery
"Who am I?" – I AM

Non-dual, non-conceptual, direct and immediate mode of perception (acronym NDNCDIMOP) and the experience is PCEs. Actually the perception is the experience.

Now even though it is the same NDNCDIMOP, if you were to start with the AF question of “how am I experiencing this moment of being alive” and have NDNCDIMOP in the foreground and later contemplate on “Who am I”, you will still not have an immediate realization of “I AM”.

Why despite all the pointing out over the years, the vivid powerful experience of “certainty of being”, glimpses after glimpses of NDNCDIMOP and even after the clear realization of the cause of the split, there is no on-going thorough NDNCDIMOP? Even though you have quite clear insight of bringing this NDNCDIMOP to the foreground, it will only not last more than a few months. You will have to cycle through again.

Hi thanks again for the pointers... Why is it that you said by having NDNCDIMOP in the foreground and later contemplating 'Who am I' wouldn't lead to the realization of I AM?

I believe the clear NDNCDIMOP is distrupted by latent tendencies, attachments and self grasping... it's a strong conditioning that surfaces often... like what I said earlier about how emotions and attachments seemingly obscures the luminosity and leads to self-contraction.

Thusness SG

Hi thanks again for the pointers... Why is it that you said by having NDNCDIMOP in the foreground and later contemplating 'Who am I' wouldn't lead to the realization of I AM?

Not that it wouldn't but it can take even longer time for a practitioner that has foreground NDNCDIMOP to have the realization of "I AMness".

Why so and What is Self? Now the foreground NDNCDIMOP has in a very subtle way become the new 'Self' view. They have treated this very foreground NDNCDIMOP to be ultimate. It becomes the condition that prevents them from liberation and the practitioners don't even realize it.

Therefore no matter how vivid, how luminous, how blissful or how logical it seems to be, let go of all experiences. You can then have a deeper understanding of the formation of 'Self/self' by letting go. :)

Don't believe, directly experience it.

Also examine whether the latent deep manfests in other states.

If after investigation you realized that the deeper dispositions surface in the conscious state, in dualistic state, in trance state, in meditative state, in NDNCDIMOP state, in dream state, in deep sleep, then ask yourself, is being lock-up permanently in PCEs (waking state) the way to eliminate emotions and attachments?

We can understand self-immolation the 'inherent' way and it seems very logical that residing in a permanent state of NDNCDIMOP (background or foreground) as the way when the mind still orientate itself within the 'inherent framework'.

We understand it by adopting the view of DO and realize the empty nature of all arising.

There is the experience, the view and the realization. Without Buddha pointing out the view, it will be difficult to see. Like I told you before,

"...When one is unable to see the truth of our (empty) nature, all letting go is nothing more than another from of holding in disguise. Therefore without the 'insight', there is no releasing.... it is a gradual process of deeper seeing. when it is seen, the letting go is natural. You cannot force urself into giving up the self... purification to me is always these insights... non-dual and emptiness nature...."

An Eternal Now SG

Not that it wouldn't but it can take even longer time for a practitioner that has foreground NDNCDIMOP to have the realization of "I AMness".

Don't believe, directly experience it.

Also examine whether the latent deep manfests in other states.

We understand it by adopting the view of DO and realize the empty nature of all arising.

There is the experience, the view and the realization. Without Buddha pointing out the view, it will be difficult to see. Like I told you before,

Thanks.... My understanding so far is that emotions can arise while you are having PCE due to the latent tendencies and self grasping, but when they arise, I will get out of the PCE state... the emotions and attachments will obscure the full clarity and luminosity. I am far from experiencing stably NDNCDIMOP...

So are you saying it is the insight into non inherency that removes those latent tendencies of grasping?

Thusness SG

So are you saying it is the insight into non inherency that removes those latent tendencies of grasping?

U may refer to the first 2 posts of http://buddhism.sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/390582?page=8

An Eternal Now SG

U may refer to the first 2 posts of http://buddhism.sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/390582?page=8

Thanks...

An Eternal Now SG

To have a deep recognition of non-duality is not merely a matter of suspending gross concepts. There are subtler levels of attachments at play, unconsciously/undetected most of the time...

For example, in my previous post I wrote about how there seems to be this persistent clinging to a locality, a sense of being 'over at this side', centered in my head, or the chest for some others, looking out through my eyes at the object out there.

Why does this occur? It is a strong identification with the body as 'me' or 'mine'.

However, to dissolve this identification is not merely a matter of disassociating/disidentify the 'body' from awareness via the neti-neti (not this, not that) approach to experience that pure formless presence. That leads to the Eternal Witness or I AM sort of experience. Neither is it a matter of entering into a state of trance, or a state of samadhi where one becomes oblivious to the body - it is true that in such a state, the attachment and identification with the body may temporarily go into oblivion, but no insight will arise out of this. It remains a temporary state with entering and exiting.

A deeper level of disidentification has to be done through an investigation with direct meditative awareness of our experience right here. When we observe our experience, we notice that the tendency to grasp after a location inside a 'body' is due to taking the 'body' to be an entity with shape, with edges, with location, and separated from the rest of the universe... and we take it to be a 'thing' that 'belongs to me' and a 'place' where 'I reside in'.

However if we suspend all assumptions and simply go by experience... we notice that there is no such thing as a 'body'. We experience tactile sensations arising one after another... each one distinct from another. They do not make up anything like an entity with a shape, edge, and location, apart from our assuming it to be so... However, we grasp after these sensations and by habitual tendencies, take these sensations to 'imply' a solid entity called the 'body', largely due to habit of objectifying visual perceptions and then linking all other perceptions (including bodily sensations) with our mental construct of a 'body' being a solid object made of shape, edges, location, etc. If we deconstruct the construct 'body', all we see are simply a bunch of sensations arising and fading moment by moment... including visual, bodily, and other perceptions.

The construct of a 'body' causes a sensation of being in the 'background' watching things 'in front'... if we dissolve the construct of a 'body', we see that everything, including the tactile sensations that we ordinarily take to be 'our body', are actually sensations happening in the foreground like everything else in the universe, all occuring seamlessly without any separation whatsoever. Which means, in the seeing, there is just the seen (without internal seer and without an external object), and likewise in bodily sensations there is just the sensation, without a feeler or object sensed. I think what Simpo/Longchen said in the past sums up best.

For one who realises non-duality (no subject-object split) there is no division of body and spirit. At non-duality realisation, body is not seen as entity but as perceptions and sensations that are 'not separated from environment'. In fact perception and sensation is the 'environment'.

An importance imo is contemplative practice... which means to investigate direct experience. This is not about trying to disassociate from the body... or trying to enter into a state of absorption where awareness of body fades away. It is about a deeper seeing into the 'empty' nature of 'body' which leads to a spontaneous letting go of any binding constructs and attachments... the result is a freedom from self-contraciton, limits, borders/boundaries, location and a sense of lightness and freedom, and you truly feel you are everything (and there is no 'you') and 'you' are not just a 'thing' 'residing' inside a 'body'.

As Thusness says:

On this matter, I highly recommend the talk 94. Joan Tollifson – The world goes on the same

p.s. I was doing push ups this morning in camp and thinking how to induce the 'body mind drop' when I realized that there are just points of sensations and no 'body' to be found at all... the attempt to 'let go of body' is based on a wrong assumption that there is a 'body' to let go... lol

Also, it made me think of the dream I had 2 weeks ago... it must have been a hint. And I just remembered Simpo saying dreams usually play out in 2 weeks... Today, I had another dream. It's nothing new actually... I already knew it somehow as many challenges have 'thrown me out' of NDNCDIMOP over the past week so perhaps this dream serves as an encouragement of some sort... in this dream, a spiritual teacher told me (not in exact words) that having an glimpse or insight is not the same as completely stabilizing the mode of NDNCDIMOP... that will take some time.

An Eternal Now SG

Today... a commentary I make on Anattalakkhana Sutta.

Oh btw, by writing these commentaries I'm not a Buddhist master or what, nor do I claim to have complete understanding of everything the Buddha said... so take my commentary with a pinch of salt... it is just based on my own observations and experience. And also, I hope that people will study and take these scriptures, the words of Buddha, seriously and contemplate themselves and have their own realisations...

http://www.aimwell.org/Books/Suttas/Anattalakkhana/anattalakkhana.html

In this discourse (which btw, to highlight its importance, was the second discourse the Buddha ever gave to his students - right after the discourse on the Four Noble Truths), the Buddha rejected the five skandhas/constituents/heaps, which is matter/form, feelings, perception, mental formations and consciousness, as being not me, not mine.

There is no 'self' to be located apart nor within these constituents of experience.... these experience alone IS... a controller, a doer, a perceiver, an agent in any form whatsoever can never be found.

And how can we know this? By observing how experience arises... do you control what you hear? Sometimes you were sound asleep and suddenly a sound woke you up.

Well, did you choose that sound? Obviously not... if you could choose not to hear that sound you would have chosen not to. If that moment of consciousness, that sound, is not up to your decision, then how can it be 'me' or 'mine'? It is simply the spontaneously occurring manifestation of the universe. That is why feelings, perceptions, consciousness, whatever they are... they arise spontaneously on their own accord without a controller. Whether you want to or not, the universe manifests in whatever ways it has to manifest (according to dependent origination).

And when I say 'universe manifests'.... the word 'universe' is really referring to Consciousness. But likewise when I say Consciousness, it is also referring to Universe. There is no perceiver anywhere... the direct experience of seeing, hearing, touching, without a perceiver... alone IS. As Steven Norquist wrote the formula: U=C, Universe=Consciousness. They are two words pointing to the same thing... which is, really not a thing at all. There is no such thing as 'A Consciousness' or 'A Universe'.... the word is often misleading as it implies a subject, or an object, that is static and graspable... no such thing however can ever be found in direct experience. Rather, those words, Consciousness, or Universe, points to this intimate, non-dual, dynamic flow of experiencing... that can never be grasped by words or concepts...

Consciousness, or the Universe, is simply this arising sound, this arising sight, this arising thought.... just the ta ta ta of the keyboard... the sound of bird singing... the sensation of coolness on my feet, the words appearing on my screen, the words appearing in my mind... everything manifesting in this moment... is a self-luminous, vivid, alive phenomenon of consciousness. In this vivid aliveness, all words and meanings fail to capture the essence... words like 'aliveness', 'consciousness', 'universe', becomes meaningless... The meaning to Bodhidharma's coming to the west? The cypress seed in the courtyard.

And when we say that U=C, Universe = Consciousness, we are saying that there is no personal self at all in consciousness... if Consciousness IS the universe, consciousness is the spontaneous manifestation of airplane flying, bird singing, feeling of coolness, etc. There is no doer, no feeler, involved... Consciousness/sensation IS.... the 'universal' spontaneous occurring manifestation that occurs inescapably (even if it is unpleasant, there is no existing controller or experiencer that could avoid What IS - there are only sights, sounds, sensations without a feeler or doer).

And then a thought may occur, 'fair enough that I don't have control over sensorial experiences, but how about MY thoughts? Aren't MY thoughts truly mine and under my control?' Well, I'd say take a look. Did you choose your thoughts? Can you know what your next moment of thought is? The direct answer if you truly look is, no... they just come up by themselves! Isn't that amazing? Thought IS, but a thinker is not. What we often think of as 'me' or 'mine' due to our investment and identification in a thought-based story of 'self'... is really in direct observation made up of some spontaneously arising 'stuff' of the universe that has nothing to do with 'me' or 'mine'.

Note that when I say U=C, I don't mean to imply that there is some sort of background, some universal awareness... I've already explained in the previous post. It is not some universal awareness behind and supporting all things, in which all things arise out of and return to as extensions of that universal Self as in the I AM realization... It is not the case that 'I am you, you are me'... Consciousness is NOT UNIVERSAL... rather, Consciousness IS the unique and ever-fresh expression of the Universe in every moment.

What I am saying is this: there is no identity, whatsoever. Consciousness/Universe is simply THIS... words appearing on screen, sound of music playing, thoughts appearing, breathing, heart beating.... each experience is a unique and complete expression of reality. There is no 'you', only life... there is no 'you' behind each thought, each sensation, each sound, each sight.. there is only Life living itself as a universal spontaneously occurring phenomenon without a 'liver'. There is no 'others'. There is no 'you' that is 'same as me'. There are only unique, individual, expressions of life that cannot be equated with each other... our thoughts, our experiences are different, even though they share the same taste of luminosity (aliveness) and emptiness (ungraspability).

So much about 'no-self'... yet, after seeing through the illusion of self and having direct glimpses of the non-dual actuality... the habit of 'self' continues to manifest. So... there might be this seeing that 'consciousness is the spontaneously arising manifestation of the universe' and the insight that 'no self can ever be found'... yet it is often the case that self-grasping and other forms of attachment occurs in our daily dealings with things. I believe this takes time to even out... for example while engaging in thoughts, while engaging in actions like talking with others, are you able to drop the sense of 'self' and let spontaneity (or prajna action) take over? Spontaneous manifestation without self is the actuality... yet by habit and karmic propensity, the sense of 'self' and 'others' continue to delude us in challenging experiences.

Another aspect is... can I integrate the seeing of 'no-self' in the engagement of thoughts? Can I fully let go of my self-grasping and simply let the flow of reality take its own course? Can I let thoughts simply arise without falling into the illusion of a self or a thinker?

OOPS... I just realised I have completely digressed from my original intentions to write a commentary on the sutta, got too carried away.... PHAIL... so anyway, hey, go check out the sutta yourself, contemplate them, and have your own insights... ok?

Oh and about the spiritual dreams I've been having... Thusness told me the reason why I have been having those dreams... amazing... really reminds me of the movie Inception... but I digress. ;)

An Eternal Now SG

After a conversation with Thusness yesterday, I was inspired to write some clarifications on my immediate previous post.

In it, I wrote that the dissolving of the construct of a personal self leads to the sense of all experiences, thoughts, sensate consciousness as appearing completely impersonally as the stuff of the universe.

However, I would like to add that this is not the experiential insight of Anatta. It is merely the aspect of dissolving the construct of personality. Nevertheless it is still an important aspect that is often discovered prior to Anatta insight (and dissolving this construct continues to be important even after insight of Anatta). In fact, I have experienced this even in the I AM phase if you look in the earlier pages of this thread. From the perspective of impersonality, everything appears as part of the universe spontaneously arising in the field of awareness. There is no 'personal self' involved anywhere. It also leads to the perception of 'no doer-ship'. It also strips away the construct of 'personality' from Consciousness, leading to the perception of a Universal Consciousness/God/Source. Yet, the sense of a pure identity, an inherently existing Self or Agent behind all things remains strong.

At this phase, the sense of an Ultimate Self is still present. An Eternal Witness, the I AM, that is the pure background awareness in which impersonal stuff arise and subside back into. It is seen as an impersonal and universal ground of being, the ultimate Source, an ultimate identity behind all things. This is so even though the construct of personal self is dissolved/seen through.

Also, even though the construct of 'self' is dissolved, there is no direct insight and direct authentication of phenomena as arising without an agent... there is no direct realization and experience of 'sound' as happening without a hearer... no direct realization and experience of 'sight' as happening without seer, etc.

So in what I wrote above, the aspect of impersonal/universal spontaneous arising is similar to what I wrote in the past during the I AM phase... but the difference now is that it is seen that there is no self, perceiver, controller or any sort of agent behind manifestation. It is not just the no personal self, no ownership, no controller aspect... rather, it is about the absence of agent, a self/Self of any sort.

The universe, arising as this sound, as this sight, as this thought, alone IS... and what 'Consciousness' IS (not universal consciousness, but Universe = Consciousness)... there is no perceiver apart from manifestation watching it. In seeing, there is just scenery, in hearing, just sound, no seer or hearer could be found. The sense of there being an 'Awareness' is deconstructed into the bare naked non-dual flow of experiencing. Consciousness is not a perceiver or a background - it is the foreground flow of spontaneous manifestation. So strong effort to 'sustain awareness' is actually not necessary (awareness is not a state: it is simply whatever manifests!)... but an 'effortless effort' of 'letting manifest' - in fact there is not even a 'letting', without an agent/self, everything is already spontaneously manifesting on its own accord as pure consciousness.

There is no one here watching, perceiving... there is just the self-luminous sound of coughing vividly and spontaneously happening. (I wrote about how coughing arises spontaneously I think one year ago, and yet at that time there was a strong sense of a Witness watching the coughing)

Also... there is a difference between 'substantialist non-dual' and 'Anatta'. Many people who experienced non-dual say things like 'The Witness is one with all that is witnessed'... 'all appearances are the manifestation of that One Essence'.

There is still a subtle referencing back to a Source, an Essence, a Center, a Self, even though appearances are experienced as non-dual. And why? It is due to the strong tendency of viewing things inherently... of viewing and clinging to reality as something inherent and solid. It is the false, dualistic and inherent framework deeply rooted as part of our conditioning... that stubbornly refuses to go even after direct glimpses of non-dual experiences and having insights into the nondual nature of reality. This framework needs to be replaced through investigating into Anatta.

In Anatta, what is seen here is that no agent exists at all... there is no hearer, no seer, no self that could be 'one with' all that is... there is no appearances that are 'one with the essence'.... The 'essence' of appearance is not an inherent/permanent essence, Essence/Awareness/Buddha-Nature is simply self-luminous flow of hearing, seeing, touching, smelling, tasting, thinking. As Thusness always say... the essence is luminosity (vivid awareness/aliveness), the nature is emptiness.

Many people both in Buddhism and in non-Buddhist traditions treat emptiness as an Essence... a ground of being, the 'great void' where all things arise out of and return to... but the emptiness that is being spoken here and spoken by Buddha does not imply so. Rather it implies the insubstantiality, ungraspability, unlocatability, 'empty of essence' nature of self and things insubstantiality of phenomena including any form of so called super awareness... it also points to the Dependent Origination of all appearances.

But emptiness is far from nihilism or non-existence... it is the middle way that transcends eternalism and nihilism. It is not that there is no awareness, no seeing, no hearing... rather, it is that in seeing, there is only just scenery, in hearing only just sound, in awareness, only just perceptions... transient, luminous flow of sensate perceptions/consciousness... each experience no longer reference to a Source, a Center, a Self, an 'Eternal Here and Now', an inherent 'Awareness', a permanent 'Source/Essence of Hearing'... etc... Hearing is just This, chirp chirp - gone as it arises. There is nothing to cling, nothing to attain, nothing to abide... Gone, gone, gone beyond to the other shore. (Heart Sutra)

(note: Shurangama Sutra talks about the eternal 'Essence of Hearing' which isn't contradicting what I said: the Essence is luminous/aware, it is eternal and never lost, but it is a flowing/transient eternity of the luminous mindstream rather than a static/inherent eternity of a metaphysical essence)

I shall end with this quote by Richard Herman...

Yes, it is the absolute "elimination of the background" without remainder. It is the affirmation of multiplicity, not dispersion, but multiplicity. The world references nothing but the world. Each thing is radiant expression of itself. There is no support, no ground. No awareness. No awareness.

"All dharmas are resolved in One Mind. One Mind resolves into...."

There is the radiant world. just the radiant world. No awareness.

That is the Abbott slapping floor with his hand. The red floor is red. Spontaneous function.

Beautiful951 SG

I was browsing some websites and there are some posts there that talked about non believers going to hell, and I am feeling quite afraid and if I would like some confirmation that I would not go to hell if I don't believe.

Thanks.

An Eternal Now SG

Thanks.

You must be mistaking Christianity with Buddhism. Only Christianity (and other monotheistic religions, not sure if Islam is included) believes that non-believes go to hell.

Buddhists believe that non-Buddhists can go to heaven if they have good karma. But in Buddhism, heaven is not ultimate because they also die eventually after a long lifespan (there is no eternal life in heaven or hell, only very very long life)

However, to be enlightened and attain Nirvana requires more than that... it requires contemplative practice and meditation. Other religions don't emphasize that...

sinweiy SG

Thanks.

we "believe" the root of hell is evil karma asociated with the 3 poisons, and also killing, stealing, sexual misconduct and cheating. 财色名食睡 too.

Yes. Buddhism does not doubt that the divine realm and hell realm exist. This is because they are both within the confines of the cycle of birth and death. Buddhism believes that as long as one does not leave the domain of birth and death, the divine realm and hell realm are places that all beings can experience. In fact, all beings have ever visited them. Those who practice the upper-grade 5 precepts and 10 good deeds can rise to the divine realm, whereas those who commit the 10 evil deeds and 5 heinous crimes will descend to the hell realm. Upon fulfilling their retributions, beings in hell realm can rise to the heaven realm. Likewise, upon exhaustion of merits, beings in the divine realm can descend to the hell realm. Hence, Buddhism believes that while the heaven realm is pleasing, it is not an ultimate happy land. Similarly for beings suffering in the hell realm, there will be a time they can leave there.

At the same time, due to the differences in wholesome actions performed, the divine realm has also difference grades. Due to the differences in the seriousness of the unwholesome actions committed, hell realm also has different levels.

The divine realm in Buddhism has 28 heavens in 3 realms. Closest to the human realm is the realm of desire, which has 6 heavens. On top of it is the realm of form, which has 18 heavens. And further above is the realm of formlessness that has 4 heavens. In truth, for those who have practiced wholesome actions they can only be reborn in the realm of desire’s 6 heavens. As for realm of form and realm of formlessness, apart from the 1^st 5 heavens in realm of form, Suddhavasa where sages who have attained the 3^rd fruition reside, the rest are Dhyana heavens populated by practitioners of meditation.

The hell realm in Buddhism is made up of countless big and small hells. They are differentiated by the types of suffering beings within are subjected to. They are primarily divided into 3 categories, namely principle hells, nearby hells and isolated/independent hells. The hells commonly mentioned in sutras refer to the principle hells. These hells can then be divided into upper, lower and vertical connecting 8 burning hells and the 4-direction horizontal connecting 8 icy hells. According to type and intensity of evil committed, individuals will be reborn in the appropriate hells as retribution. In traditional myth, descend to hell are accorded to being captured by ghost prison guards. In reality, rebirth in either the divine realm or hell realm is the result of each individual’s karmic forces. If one’s karmic forces are inclined towards the divine realm, then one will be reborn in a heaven. If one’s karmic forces are inclined toward the hell realm, then one will be reborn to suffer in a hell.

hell realm exhaust evil karma, heaven realm exhaust good karma. Pure karma of neither good nor bad escape both.

Beautiful951 SG

You must be mistaking Christianity with Buddhism. Only Christianity (and other monotheistic religions, not sure if Islam is included) believes that non-believes go to hell.

However, to be enlightened and attain Nirvana requires more than that... it requires contemplative practice and meditation. Other religions don't emphasize that...

Actually, it was a Christian writing that post. I just got scared at the thought of an eternal hell, and at the time I needed some confirmation that hell is not forever.

we "believe" the root of hell is evil karma asociated with the 3 poisons, and also killing, stealing, sexual misconduct and cheating. 财色名食睡 too.

hell realm exhaust evil karma, heaven realm exhaust good karma. Pure karma of neither good nor bad escape both.

Thanks for replying. You and AEN helped a lot.

sinweiy SG

and at the time I needed some confirmation that hell is not forever.

i thought so.

no, we don't say it is "forever" or eternal in Buddhism, even though the time could be unimaginary long for those people commiting evil karma.

it's not about believe or not believe, but about understanding Truth. i still respect their teaching. at least people avoid doing evil. :)

An Eternal Now SG

The more 'I' contemplate/look... the clearer it is that there is only phenomena arising and falling. Just the flickering self luminous presence that appears every moment as a unique and complete presence, and yet disappears as soon as it arises. No 'I' is present in the seeing and experiencing... the experiencing is only the experience itself.

Is there something called 'Awareness', 'Aliveness', 'Presence', etc? I actually cannot find such a thing (as something independent and standing apart from experience)... but I cannot deny sounds, sights, breathe, thoughts, and its very self luminous quality, the very quality of aliveness... which isn't a thing but is precisely the very manifestation itself. There is no 'Awareness' other than this arising sight, sound, sensation, etc...

I no longer see something I could cling to, such as 'Pure Presence', 'Awareness', etc... I only see arising and subsiding Dharmas, phenomena, each phenomena unique and yet interdependent and seamlesslu interconnected... and yet the words 'presence', 'awareness' also point to the very vivid luminosity of experience. Empty, but luminous...

This is why there is no more tendency to reject or disassociate from experiences to seek a pure state of awareness... the 'I AM'... the 'Eternal Witness'... the 'Source of Experience'. For whatever arises is itself an undeniable presence in itself.

Another important point... Whatever manifests 'liberates' on its own accord... Yesterday I observed a drop of rain fell on the floor, and evaporated as soon as it falls due to sunshine. No traces left. And this is actually a perfect metaphor of what all happening is... they arise, and then they subside.

But then there is always this tendency to cling... why? Due to not perceiving our nature. Due to not perceiving 'emptiness'... we grasp onto objects as if they are solid entities. We grasp, due to not perceiving 'no self'... If there is no self, then all there is is phenomena arising and subsiding on its own. But if there is a sense of a self, an agent, then there is always a sense of being in conflict with phenomena, there is always grasping onto phenomena, seeking after phenomena, controlling phenomena, getting rid of phenomena, etc...

If we attempt to 'let go of attachments' through the dualistic/inherent way (through a sense of self), that is another reaction arising due to a sense of self/controller... it is more grasping in disguise of letting go. But if we perceive experience as it is (self-luminous, arising and subsiding momentarily), and the absence of self, there is not even an attempt to 'let go', there is only phenomena arising and subsiding. Which is what Actuality is...

I notice in me the tendency of clinging to thoughts, perpetuating them into a story, creating a momentum and chain that goes on and on... due to the clinging of 'self' and 'inherency', which fails to perceive the actuality of thought and experience itself as happening without a self/agent, and its arising and subsiding nature. That is why we have to practice 'dropping'... the advice of Thusness to me seems very apt: 'Just cultivate a sense of perpetually letting go. Scan tightness in body and let go. Don't dwell on thoughts and let go'.

One more thing... there is no agent, no source, no self. In hearing, there is only sound... In Seeing, only scenery. In thinking, just thoughts.

The sense of a 'Source', an 'Awareness' in which these phenomena come from, a 'Self', a 'Hearer', a 'Witness'... etc, this is seen through when it is seen that whatever that is... the Source, the Witness, the Awareness, the Hearing, Seeing, etc, is precisely just that - scenery, sight, sounds, touch, taste, thoughts... only just the appearances.

In seeing this, there is no more referencing back to a Self/Source/Center... an Agent that is the 'cause' of hearing, seeing, experiencing, etc.

But there is a further teaching to contemplate... the teaching of dependent origination, which further breaks down the sense of agency. The sense of arisings being 'caused'... it is seeing that sound arise due to many conditions supporting the arising... the sense of pain arising due to hand touching the wound, and yet the pain isn't coming from a 'feeler', or from the fingers, or from the wound... there is no 'feeler of pain' - there is only just this manifestation arising... and yet the manifestation isn't coming from the wound or the fingers. It is all the conditions coming together... a new, complete, fresh manifestation of pain arises... There is no center, no location to which they reference to.

That pain has no source, no agency, no self... it just IS... interdependently originated without an inherent existence, it arises and passes according to conditions. This is how we should contemplate all our experiences... the sense of agency and causality collapses leaving only a seamlessly interdependent world. There is no sense of 'pain', 'sensation', 'sight' coming from somewhere... from 'Self'... from 'eyes'... 'body'... etc.

An Eternal Now SG

One more thing about intensity of luminosity... intensity of luminosity depends very much on how much we are able to let go of thoughts and remaining unfixated, non-conceptual, etc. Not being lost in thoughts in short. This can be pretty simple when taking a stroll down the park, but can be hard when there are challenges, interactions, things to be done, etc.

Getting lost and fixated in thought blocks us from the totality of experience and prevents us from the direct, intuitive mode of experiencing... the NDNCDIMOP (non-dual, non conceptual, direct, immediate mode of perception).

Found a very good quote from Sailor Bob Adamson's book:

'...And see what happens if we're not actually living totally: we're living in the head as most of us do, in an imagined yesterday and tomorrow. We're missing out on a lot in life really, because while that total head stuff is going on, we're ignoring the seeing, the hearing, the tasting, touching and smelling. These other functions are going on in the body, and you vaguely know or hear something else in the background, or see something else in the background, but it's not the focus of attention. The main focus is in that thinking, and so we're not really living fully.

That's why they say in one of the Buddhist texts, "Be utterly awake with the five senses wide open. Be right with what is now with the five sense wide open; the hearing, seeing, tasting, touching, smelling, thinking - all equally." And it goes on to say, "Be utterly open with un-fixated awareness, where there is no fixating or clinging to some particular thought, idea or conecpt to the exclusion of the livingness." See what a difference that makes in living."'

Rainbow Jigsaw SG

Actually, it was a Christian writing that post. I just got scared at the thought of an eternal hell, and at the time I needed some confirmation that hell is not forever.

Thanks for replying. You and AEN helped a lot.

We do good deeds in our life journey, so that others can benefit from our actions. That's how we can gain the most soul learning and soul experience from it. However, if we do good deeds just because we are afraid of suffering in our afterlife if we don't, not only do we only gain limited experience from it, we are actually reinforcing our Fear-consciousness. That will make our life journey much harder in future, as much longer time and effort would be needed to heal ourselves energetically. Fear is the strongest source of negative energy.

Rainbow Jigsaw of Life (spiritual free-thinker)

Thusness SG

....Another important point... Whatever manifests 'liberates' on its own accord... Yesterday I observed a drop of rain fell on the floor, and evaporated as soon as it falls due to sunshine. No traces left. And this is actually a perfect metaphor of what all happening is... they arise, and then they subside.

Hi AEN,

Penetrating from non duality to anatta gets very subtle and more difficult to articulate as we progress. There are numerous intermingled glimpses and experience interweave experience so in order not to miss the ‘essence’ of these insights, it is advisable not to jump too quickly into other phases of insights before stabilization.

I no longer see something I could cling to, such as 'Pure Presence', 'Awareness', etc... I only see arising and subsiding Dharmas, phenomena, each phenomena unique and yet interdependent and seamless interconnected... and yet the words 'presence', 'awareness' also point to the very vivid luminosity of experience. Empty, but luminous..

....

One more thing... there is no agent, no source, no self. In hearing, there is only sound... In Seeing, only scenery. In thinking, just thoughts.

In seeing this, there is no more referencing back to a Self/Source/Center... an Agent that is the 'cause' of hearing, seeing, experiencing, etc.

After gaining experiential insight of what you expressed above, there is a natural tendency to let Presence manifests spontaneously in the flow of phenomenality. Depending on your condition, you will eventually realize that your 'letting Presence manfests spontaneously' turns out to be a contrieve effort of substaining a pure consciousness experience in the foreground.

There are 2 aspects of anatta as I have written to you in the article On Anatta (No-Self), Emptiness, Maha and Ordinariness, and Spontaneous Perfection.

Your tendency now will still be centered on the ‘brilliant and pristine presence’, the direct vivid experience of ‘aliveness’ in the foreground (The essence instead of the empty nature). So not to talk about spontaneous perfection of whatever arises for now. :-)

Rather focus on the essence of the first stanza of the article:

The impermanent nature...

The stream of arising and passing away...

The stream of continual releasing...

Perpetually letting go...

...That is why we have to practice 'dropping'... the advice of Thusness to me seems very apt: 'Just cultivate a sense of perpetually letting go. Scan tightness in body and let go. Don't dwell on thoughts and let go'.

The para above must not be understood from a 'disassociation' perspective but rather a direct realization of the 'nature' of experience as part of anatta insight.

Therefore inaddition to what you realized, allow your understanding of liberation to focus on this ‘aspect’ -- the impermanence, the stream of continual passing away. Allow this understanding of perpetual passing away to refine your understanding of anatta; allow this 'seeing of process' to wash away the sense of self as a refinement of ur insight into anatta.

Do not worry about the non-dual presence for now…it has already sunk sufficiently deep in your consciousness. It will be seamlessly integrated.

Lastly practice sitting meditation when you have time especially for the 'dropping'. For non-dual presence, Sailor Bob's advice is quite good. :)

An Eternal Now SG

I see... thanks a lot for the pointers!

An Eternal Now SG

Let go of what has passed.

Let go of what may come.

Let go of what is happening now.

Don't try to figure anything out.

Don't try to make anything happen.

Relax, right now, and rest.

-Tilopa

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