Open advice to Zenist69

Amitayus48 SG

“太上老君感应篇” is from Daoism, and the main daoism text is 老子道德经, similar as the supreme Buddhism text is the Flower Adornment Sutra in Buddhism literature.

In 老子道德经, it explained Buddha nature in the form of 道, is my pleasure to extract a portion of its beautiful literature :

老子道德经
道可道，非常道。名可名，非常名。
无名天地之始；有名万物之母。
故常无，欲以观其妙；常有，欲以观其徼。
此两者，同出而异名，同谓之玄。玄之又玄，众妙之门。

上善若水。水善利万物而不争，处众人之所恶，故几于道。

视之不见，名曰夷；听之不闻，名曰希；搏之不得，名曰微。此三者不可致诘，故混而为一。其上不皦，其下不昧。绳绳兮不可名，复归于物。是谓无状之状，无物之象，是谓惚恍。迎之不见其首，随之不见其后。

执古之道，以御今之有。能知古始，是谓道纪。

有物混成，先天地生。寂兮寥兮，独立而不改，周行而不殆，可以为天地母。吾不知其名，强字之曰道，强为之名曰大。大曰逝，逝曰远，远曰反。

和大怨，必有馀怨；报怨以德，安可以为善？

是以圣人执左契，而不责于人。有德司契，无德司彻。

天道无亲，常与善人。

Asking you to nian Namo Amitofo, you nian otherwise, but if you would to nian other wise, it is perfectly in tune, according to Patriarch Dharma Master Ying Kuang.

Namo Amitofo

Pure Emptiness SG

Zenist69 SG

I am only able to see accusations without proper linking, or sentences taken out of context. Bit and pieces here and there. However, again, translation is imperfect.

As long any teachings, upon completion, does not stray from the 3 dharma seals, 4 noble truths, and the eightfold path, is a proper teaching.

A good Buddhist teacher, in my opinion, embodies two virtues, namely wisdom and compassion. Just like Guan Yin, who hears cries of the world,with skilful means, will appear in different form.

Teachings will be made according to the needs of the listeners, in this case probably to people with inclinations towards" superstition" and "ignorance".

There is a story(can't remember which) , about children playing in burning building. in order to save them, promises of gifts attractive to the children are made, toget the children out for the burning house first.

"1.净空邪说不存在应机说法的问题

很多净空邪师的痴迷者在解释净空邪师的歪理邪说时，常见的一种说法就是认为那是应机说法，可是，净空邪师是在对全世界的人讲经说法，不存在应机的问题！
净空邪师自己也说：“利用网路科技，我在新加坡讲话，全世界同时都能收看，这个方法仿佛经中所说的不动道场，周遍十方。现在交通便捷，资讯发达，特别是网路科技，即使在旅行中，任何时间、处所，都能与全世界联络，所以世界变小了。”
净空邪师还说：“不在场的那些听众不晓得有多少？就像我们现在面对著录像机样，在卫星传播、电脑网路上传遍全世界。现在人听到我们讲经，我们将来往生不在世，这个带子还留下去，后面人还能听到。我听说现在这些带子，制作的水平很高，可以保存两百年，我们没有那么长的寿命，两百年后那些人还能听到我们带子，还能看到这个画面。所以我们在此地讲经说法，我们的生活一举一动、一言一行，至少要对两百年以后的听众要负责任。” "

http://www.tianjian.org/jingkongxs/jk12.htm

Zenist69 SG

Asking you to nian Namo Amitofo, you nian otherwise, but if you would to nian other wise, it is perfectly in tune, according to Patriarch Dharma Master Ying Kuang.

Namo Amitofo

"难道《弟子规》、《感应篇》和《新旧约》是佛陀证悟的宇宙人生的真理？外道的祖师爷们证到了无实无虚的阿耨多罗三藐三菩提？所谓 “法法圆融”，是指佛陀说的小乘大乘，世出世间的一切法皆圆融，完全与外道没有关系，而净空却把所有外道都牵扯进来，竟敢说“所有宗教里面的东西统统是佛法”，完全曲解佛陀在《金刚经》上讲的：“须菩提，如来所得阿耨多罗三藐三菩提，于是中无实无虚，是故如来说一切法，皆是佛法。”的原意。"

http://www.douban.com/group/topic/11720690/

Zenist69 SG

*redundant post, deleted.*

Zenist69 SG

Funny leh u all want slander fashi at least chose ven ming yi fashi. This fashi gt tarnish the buddhism reputation in spore and caused alot of my relatives n frenz to slander budddhism.

U all slander venerable chin kong for? He gt tarnish buddhism reputation meh?

This is only my opinion.

If the criticism are spot on, valid, then where's the slander on Jing Kong Dharma Master??

Pure Emptiness SG

If the criticism are spot on, valid, then where's the slander on Jing Kong Dharma Master??

I am not a buddhist expert. If i make any mistakes pls forgive me.

Amitayus48 SG

"1.净空邪说不存在应机说法的问题

http://www.tianjian.org/jingkongxs/jk12.htm

A 外道 would interprete it as wai dao way of life. 佛陀 no say, if you claimed 佛陀 got a say is 外道 and "pang far". The 法is always 圆融, but the people dun want to 融融and 美美, so wat to do - best is to recite Namo Amitofo

Weychin SG

"1. Headroom heresy of saying there is no issue should be machine

A lot of headroom in the interpretation of evil fanatics division clearance evil teacher of heresies, the common argument is that a machine that should be said, however, clearance is the evil teacher who preached to the whole world, not There should be machine problem!
Clearance evil teacher himself said: "The use of Internet technology, I speak in Singapore, the world can watch the same time, this method is not mentioned as if fixed by the temple, Zhou Bian Shifang. Now convenient transportation, advanced information technology, in particular, Internet technology, even in the travel, any time, premises, can connect with the world, so the world smaller. "
Clearance evil teacher said: "without the presence of those listeners do not know how many? As we are now faced with VCR-like, in satellite communication, computer network spread all over the world. Now people listen to our preaching, our future died not living, this tape also left to go, people could hear the back. I heard that the tape, the high level of production, you can save two hundred years, we do not have a long life, those who can listen to two hundred years to our tape, but also to see this picture. So here we preached to our lives every move, every word, at least the audience of two hundred years later to be responsible. ""

Weychin SG

" Dun shoot the messenger."

Anyway, Zenist69, you are no neutral party from the outset. You has taken another's view as your own platform , so you are an agent of your own free will.

Like saying"Oh ! I did not create this muck ! somebody else did ! All I did was scoop it up and slap it !"

Zenist69 SG

I suggest that if you don't like Master Chin Kong's talk, you can always listen to other master's talk but don't defame any Ven. I know many people take refuge after listening to his talks, so he is not an ordinary person. He is someone with great credits because many people take refuge because of him. So, don't discredit yourself by criticizing him. I agree that there are many bogus monks nowadays but Master Chin Kong is definitely not one of them.

Whether his talk is right or wrong, let the listeners decide. We Buddhists must stay united, don't defame any one of us unless that person is doing harm to Buddhism. I don't see people stay away from Buddhism after listening to his talks, instead many people take 3 refuges after listening to his talks.

Its not about whether I like his message or not. To be frank, I really like his message initially. Hey, I am a Chinese, and I do feel sense of pride in Chinese culture too. He talk about how the Chinese cutlure has got so much wisdom and all the good stuff, which modern people especially the Westerners dont know about it. I like that kind of message too. I really do. I have Dao De Jing, Zhuang Zi, 笑傲江湖, etc, on my bookshelf too. But the thing is, his position, he's a Dharma Master. His duty is not Chinese culture, his duty is not ambassador for Chinese history and culture. His duty is towards Buddhism, and mankind 众生. He should be ambassador, teacher of BuddhaDharma, not Christianity, not Taoism, not Islam, not Confucism, not the wai dao. 'cause wai dao are imperfect, 'cause he's a Buddhist and a Dharma Master.

Given a choice, I rather not doing this. Because my energy and strength is limited. But I bor bian! I chance upon it, its karma, and I have to play it out, follow my conscience and karma. I cant just walk away and pretend all is well when I realize the misleading, and danger of Jing Kong Dharma Master teachings.

People take refuge because him Jing Kong Dharma Master, thats another matter. If people go take refuge, and believe in every word Jing Kong Dharma Master said, thats not good news, thats really really bad news. 'cause some of Jing Kong Dharma Master message are really dangerous. And those teachings, those messages (e.g. Dun go see doc or take medicine when fall sick, just chant AMTF，Bible is also part of Buddhist Canon, etc) could hurt one's 法身慧命。I feel oblige to sound off the alarm, thats all.

realization SG

If I didn't understand wrongly, this is what the passage is actually trying to say.

"Many of Chin Kung's followers like to say that his contradictory statements were often said due to particular needs of the audience at a particular point in time. But in fact, Chin Kung himself acknowledges and espouses the use of modern recording and broadcasting technology to preserve Dharma talks. He further states that, "what is said today, can still be heard at least some 200 years later; hence the need to be responsible with what one says and does today." Herein, according to Chin Kung's detractors, lies the inherent contradiction in his ideas and actions."

sinweiy SG

yea, i read them, they still look like "external" stuff, plain bashing, and upsidedown. doesn't concur with the real essence of Dharma to me. the message only see the external stuff of Buddhism than the essence of dharma. external stuff in other word mean waidao; 心外求法 or they called it upsidedown颠倒是非. Dharma should stress more on actuality重实质 than on appearance/label 不重形式. only a person who's 邪 see things as 邪 .

        they are still pretty much taking words out of context. if MCK is wrong then many other masters (like Zen master Hyon Gak Sunim ) also wrong for saying bible stuff.

        btw many people/spirits are rebirth in pureland because of him, and u say the teaching dangerous? the messager got such credit in helping people rebirth into pureland? to me the messager is the one that is misleading with it's limited understanding. the messager to me is the one that's a mara in disguise. he/she is the one using subjective potion and blowing it out big.

        and strangely, what's reading Dao De Jing, Zhuang Zi, 笑傲江湖 got to do with his teaching of rebirth in pureland by reciting Amituofo and other pureland teachings. i listen so many years, and i read them, but my faith in pureland and Amitabha is not a tiny bit affected. as they are also taught nicely by MCK. to me, i won't be bother with the "messager" allegations, since they are incomplete anyway. 法无定法、定法非法。

ps: sorry guys, i might slowly delete all the chinese bashing stuff.

Weychin SG

I believe you've used some online translation service to translate the following passage which was originally posted by Zenist69.

"1.净空邪说不存在应机说法的问题

http://www.tianjian.org/jingkongxs/jk12.htm

If I didn't understand wrongly, this is what the passage is actually trying to say.

Thanks for your translation, it really helps when one is able to put into context!

That said, unfortunately, one still have address different people with different outlook and world views differently. Those that could learn and benefit would agree, and be at peace,while those with tunnel vision will see differently.

Zenist69 SG

........
they are still pretty much nonsensical, vulgar and faslely putting words in people's mouth or taking words out of context. if MCK is wrong then all other masters also wrong for saying bible stuff. He NEVER say they are part of Buddhism. it's any how puting words on other peoples mouth....

净空说：“我再告诉诸位，基督教的《新旧约》就是《大藏经》，《大藏经》就是《新旧约》，你懂不懂？无有一法不圆，法法圆融。基督教的牧师为什么讲不圆？他没有圆解。过去于斌主教在辅仁大学后面多马斯修道院内，基督教亚洲主教团兴办的东亚精神生活研究所，请我去讲佛教精神生活。那时我就感到很遗憾，他应该请我讲《新旧约全书》就好了。”——《佛说大乘无量寿庄严清净平等觉经讲记·往生正因第二十五》

MCK said New and Old Testament is Buddhist Tripitaka, and the Tripitaka is the New and Old Testament. When did I put words in his mouth?? This kind of message by MCK, to say the Bible is Tripitaka, isn't it dangerous from Buddhism point of view??? You are the one playing mind trick: you are playing mind trick on your own mind!

Dawnfirstlight SG

I am happy that you said you voiced out out of your concerns for Buddhism. Buddhism needs more people like you but this time you are on the wrong track. You have been duped by the person behind the scene who is out to slander MCK. This guy is taking everything out of context just to achieve his motive.

I had watched a video on youtube which I believe was filmed by the same person to slander MCK. Give me sometime to search for it again and I shall pm you. I was almost duped by him till I found out that he took things out of context.

To be continued.............

Zenist69 SG

.......
and strangely, what's reading Dao De Jing, Zhuang Zi, 笑傲江湖 got to do with his teaching of rebirth in pureland by reciting Amituofo and other pureland teachings. i listen so many years, and i read them, but my faith in pureland and Amitabha is not a tiny bit affected. as they are also taught nicely by MCK. to me, why bother with the "messager" allegations, since they are not helpful, false and nonsensical anyway.

.....
/\

When did I say those books gotta do with MCK teaching of rebirth, and pureland teaching? I am saying he had mixed up his position as a Dharma Master with ambassador for Chinese culture too. But Dao De Jing, Zhuang Zi, Di Zi Gui, and wat not Chinese books are not part of Buddhism! He got confuse with his role! Di Zi Gui and Tai Shang Gan Yin Pian are not Buddhism! And yet, he introduce it as entry and foundation to Buddhism! Which shows his mind is muddled as a Dharma Master!

Weychin SG

Buddhism is not preached to people in a void, before being a Buddhist already exists a world view which one inherits. By being a Buddhist, one does not suddenly go through a transformation and VOILA!!! Instant enlightenment, instant buddha.

For one to accept a new religion, it must be seen and good and compatible with previous positive beliefs. One must be able to see the good that endures in another belief.

Dawnfirstlight SG

There was one part which showed MCK praised Jesus and said we are all God's children. This guy behind the scene questioned why MCK praised Jesus instead of Goddess of Mercy. I was a bit disppointed too.

Later, I found out that MCK's talk was in a church as he was invited to a church. MCK said we are all children of God. I guess his intention was asking Christians not to bash Buddhists as we are all God's children. But this guy behind the scene did not mention and he had taken everything out of contect to slander MCK.

Zenist69 SG

yea, i read them, they still look like external stuff and 邪说. doesn't concur with the real essence of Dharma to me. the message only see the external stuff of Buddhism than the essence of dharma. external stuff in other word mean waidao; 心外求法. Dharma should stress more on actuality重实质 than on appearance/label 不重形式. only a person who's 邪 see things as 邪 also....

MCK teachings such as, 'The Bible is Tripitaka, and the Tripitaka is the Bible.' Dun tell me thats not a 邪说 from Buddhism point of view?? 不重形式 means can spew nonsensical teaching to that extend such as that one??

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