Can hell really become empty of suffering beings?

last SG · 2008-02-17T13:18:24+00:00

Wrong, Human nature is always present before Buddha nature takes root. All your instincts are human nature, not Buddha nature.As I said, human nature is sim...

wilsonhao SG

It depends on which tradition of buddhism. In the mahayana and vajrayana buddhism, buddha nature is said to exist in ALL sentient beings in samsara. Therefore one will be able to become buddha no matter what someday in future. However buddha nature is not emphasized/not taught in theravada buddhism(correct me if im wrong). One needs cultivation and practice in order to gain Arhatship, therefore saying that buddha nature is not within us but we must find it through cultivation.

I sort of agree with theravada point of view, because i dont think human has done evil just as simply as hatred,greed and ignorance. The reason why we are in samsara is because we do not have a pure nature. If we have buddha nature, wouldnt we all become buddhas now since we have Sakyamuni buddha to enlighten us? People might argue what 'buddha nature' meant was that we all have the potential to become buddha someday, but then i feel that they key to buddha nature is still cultivation and to put buddha's word into practice.

The world is full of negative energies. Even if we have buddha nature, it is very unlikely we will find buddha nature by chance. Therefore the simplest thing we can do is cultivate compassion, wisdom, try to cease desire and help others base on our capabilities. If we can do that, that is the key.

wilsonhao SG

All sentient beings have Buddha Nature.

If you say otherwise then you have no ideas what is Buddha Nature.

Without Buddha Nature, we cannot even be. Hearing, seeing, all are the functions of Buddha Nature.

Buddha nature is beyond sight, hearing and perception of feeling etc. No beings in samsara can see it. Buddha also said that what he taught is just a leaf compared to an entire forest. Real buddha nature is incomprehensible and not known to samsara beings.

Spnw07 SG

will also have to interpreted all Bodhisattva vow. all's got the same significant. like...

you know there's the Bodhisattva's first universal vow of "Sentient beings is boundless, I vow to liberate them all. "

and Guan Yin vow to answer the cries and pleas of all beings and to liberate all beings from their own karmic woes.

Erms, sorry, but what are you trying to say here? I a bit slow.

Spnw07 SG

The Buddha nature concept, seriously is a mystery to me. But deeply I still believe in it. Why? To put it very shortly, why do some people continue to do evil despite all efforts by people to help me and why do some people continue to do good despite all efforts by people to humiliate and/or torture him?

The only reason I think of is some people's Buddha nature are less tainted by delusions compared to others hence the observed difference.

And why some people less tainted by delusions? I don't know. But I will continue to find out more about it.

An Eternal Now SG

Buddha Nature is not just a term pointing out to the potential in all of us to attain Buddhahood, even though this potential is implied and intrinsically linked to it (our originally radiant citta).

Buddha Nature is talking about our True Nature, the ultimate reality. Which is luminous and empty.

In this sense Theravada definitely talks about Buddha Nature too, even though they do not use the same name. They call it the Shining Mind. Our Buddha Mind is already shining, but obscured due to our defilements. That is why we are still in samsara.

The Buddha taught this in the Pali scriptures:

"Luminous, monks, is the mind.1 And it is defiled by incoming defilements." {I,v,9}

"Luminous, monks, is the mind. And it is freed from incoming defilements." {I,v,10}

"Luminous, monks, is the mind. And it is defiled by incoming defilements. The uninstructed run-of-the-mill person doesn't discern that as it actually is present, which is why I tell you that — for the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person — there is no development of the mind." {I,vi,1}

"Luminous, monks, is the mind. And it is freed from incoming defilements. The well-instructed disciple of the noble ones discerns that as it actually is present, which is why I tell you that — for the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones — there is development of the mind." {I,vi,2}

Also see:

THE SHINING CITTA AND THE BUDDHA-NATURE
(from “The Selfless Mind ~ Personality, Consciousness and Nirvaa.na in Early Buddhism” by Peter Harvey. Curzon Press. 1995. From the chapter on ‘Bhava.nga and the Brightly Shining Mind’ Pp.174-76)

(10.33) Other than the Theravaada, a number of the pre-Mahaayaana schools made reference to the radiant citta. The Vibhajyavaadins, who were close to or identical with the Theravaadins, held that the fundamental or root-nature (Muula-bhaava) of citta was brightly shining (Skt. Prabhaasvara; Bareau, 1955: 175), while the Mahaasaa.nghikas said the same of the ‘own-nature’ (svabhaava) of citta (Bareau, 1955: 67-8), and the Dharmaguptakas said this of the ‘nature’ (bhaava) of the citta (Bareau, 1955: 194). The Sarvaastivaadin Vaibhaas.sikas, however, disagreed (Bareau, 1955: 147). In the Mahaayaana, the concept became one of great importance. The A.s.tasaahasrikaa Perfection of Wisdom Sutra, a text from around the first centuries BC or AD, identifies it with the compassion-based ‘thought of awakening’ (bodhi-citta), the aspiration to attain Buddhahood, for the sake of liberating all beings. Of this it says, ‘that citta is no citta, since it is by nature brightly shining (taccittam-acittam: prak.rtiscittasya prabhaasvaara)’ (Vaidya, 1960: 3, cf. Conze, 1973: 84). Here, the link with compassion tallies with the ‘early Sutta’ linking of the lovingkindness to the radiant citta (Para.10.22). The unusual nature of this citta is here signalled by it being termed a non-citta citta. The connection to bodhi, awakening or enlightenment, is also found in the ‘early Suttas’, if not quite in the same way. Arahatship is, of course, a kind of bodhi, and the seven ‘factors of bodhi’, which conduce to liberation, are developed by a citta which is without defilements (S. V. 93), I.e. with its radiance uncovered.

(10.34) The uncovered brightly shining citta is thus the ideal springboard from which to attain awakening, such that it can be seen as a kind of enlightenment-potential. Appropriately, one strand of Mahaayaana thought identifies the brightly shining citta with the Tathaagata-garbha: the Buddha-embryo, or Buddha-potential which is the Buddha-nature (Buddha-dhaatu) present in all beings. Indeed, it is awareness of this which prompts the arising of the ‘thought of awakening’. The La.nkaavataara Suutra (p.77) says of the Tathaagata-garbha that it is ‘by nature brightly shining and pure (prak.rti-prabhaasvara-visuddy-), originally pure (-adi-visuddha)’. It is ‘naturally pure (prak.rti-parisuddho) but it appears impure as it is defiled by stains which arrive’ and is ’enveloped in the garments of personality-factors, (sensory) elements and sense-spheres, and soiled with the dirt of attachment, hatred, delusion and imagining (-parikalpa)’ [20]. As discernment is a personality-factor, and is generally equivalent to citta, this implies that the Tathaagata-garbha Is not a normal kind of ‘citta’, just as the bodhi-citta is not.

(10.35) The Sriimaala-devii Simhanaada Suutra sees the Buddha-potential as that which aspires for nirvaa.na (Paul, 1980: ch.13), while the Ratnagotra-vibhaaga sees it as replete with the qualities of Buddha hood (vv.51, 84). It is both ‘since beginningless time naturally present’ and ‘perfected through proper cultivation’ (v.149). It is already present, ‘the immaculate true nature to which nothing need be added and from which nothing need be taken’ (v. 113). Yet it has to be separated from accompanying impurities, just as gold-ore has to be refined so as to bring out and manifest the intrinsic purity of gold (v.47). Its relation to the defilements is much as in Theravaada thought. The Ratnagotra-vibhaaga says that karma and the defilements are based on unmethodical attention, that this is based on ‘the mind’s purity’, yet it also says that this ‘true nature of mind’ is itself without further basis (vv. 56-7): a step beyond the Theravaada view. In fact, in Tathaagata-garbha thought, the Buddha-potential becomes the basis of all existence. The La.nkaavaatara Suutra says that it ‘holds within it the cause for both good and evil, and by it all forms of existence are produced. Like an actor it takes on a variety of forms …’ (p.220). The Ratnagotra-vibhaaga equates it with the subject of the following verse:

The Realm (dhaatu) is without beginning in time,
It is the common basis (aasraya) of all states.
Because it exists, there also exist
All places of rebirth and full attainment of nirvaa.na.
(Holmes & Holmes, 1985: 72-3).

In the La.nkaavataara Suutra, the Buddha-potential is actually seen as eternal and permanent but, while it may seem like a metaphysical Self (aatman), or eternal creator, it is not so, for it is the same as emptiness (p.778), i.e. lack of inherent Self-nature. The La.nkaavataara Suutra (p.221) also equates it with the aalaya-vijn~naana or ‘home-discernment’ of Yogaacaarin thought. This is a similar concept to that of the Theravaadin bhava.nga citta, being part of a system which also includes conception (manas) and the six forms of sense-discernments (See Harvey, 1990: 107-09). As in Theravaada thought, it is conception which is the agent of generating defilements. Unlike bhava.nga, though, the alaaya is seen as projecting out of itself the apparently external objects which are taken by the sense-discernments. The Theravaada view, here, is simply that past karma affects which objects are noticed, and conception and cognition then interpret and misinterpret these objects.

(10.36) It can thus be seen that the Buddha-potential, a key concept of the Mahaayaana, which became particularly central in Zen Buddhism, has links to both the ‘early Suttas’ and to the later Theravaada. While the Mahaayaana makes more explicit use of this type of concept, analogues to it are found in the early texts and the scholastic Theravaada tradition. The radiant citta as an enlightenment potential is also a part of the living Theravaada meditation tradition.
(e&oe)

sinweiy SG

Erms, sorry, but what are you trying to say here? I a bit slow.

i mean Earth Store's Bodhisattva's vows is similar to all other bodhisattva's vow in terms of the essence of generating a Bodhi-mind. simply put. ya?

Lost_Drift SG

Of course not. All sentient beings's Buddha Nature is complete and all will attain Buddhahood eventually.

Agree!That's the right answer!!

Spnw07 SG

i mean Earth Store's Bodhisattva's vows is similar to all other bodhisattva's vow in terms of the essence of generating a Bodhi-mind. simply put. ya?

Because it is similar, therefore why the great praise heaped on Earth-Store Bodhisattva? Seriously even when reading the Universal Dharma Door highlighting the vows and skilful means of Avalokitesvaraya (Guan Yin) Bodhisattva, I have not yet come across praises as great as that for Earth-Store Bodhisattva from the Buddha.

All Bodhisattvas practise fillial piety, compassion and wisdom, so why did the Buddha promote and praise Earth-Store Bodhisattva to the saha world and even entrust the deliverance of all beings in the saha world to him?

If you say it's that Earth-Store Bodhisattva has great affinity with us, isn't it the same for Guan Yin? And maybe all Bodhisattvas from all directions?

I do not understand. See, when you are praticising the Bodhisattva way, it is imperative that you jie yuan or establish good karmic ties with every sentient being, so how is that it appears as if only certain Bodhisattvas can have greater affinities with the saha world?

All Bodhisattvas go by the Four Unlimited Vows to save all sentient beings, so that includes every world that has sentient beings in any direction. To do that, you definitely have to jie yuan with all, so that all will listen to you at a suitable time when you preach the Dharma to them

So it's quite hard to understand when I hear from Venerables telling us that certain Buddha or Bodhisattva has no 'yuan' with us, therefore they cannot help us.

sinweiy SG

SW: not yet come across, doesn't mean don't have, right? i think there's a lot out there that does praise a practicular bodhisattva in a particular sutra. Reading Lotus Sutra Chapter 25 "Universal Dharma Door ", i did notice Buddha praising Guan Yin. Reading Amitabha sutra, Buddha praise Amitabha.

SW: to what i know, Buddha entrust Earth Store from between Buddha's parinirvana till the next coming of Maitreya only. perhaps, during this period of dharma ending age and dark age, what beings most need is the teaching of fillial piety/respectfulness.

If you say it's that Earth-Store Bodhisattva has great affinity with us, isn't it the same for Guan Yin? And maybe all Bodhisattvas from all directions?

SW: nay, i got more affinity with Guan Yin. you know, this kind of "selecting all is best than selecting one" question also occur in Pureland school.

All the Bodhisattva are, in truth, equal. Nevetheless, since the majority of sentient beings in our world generally have dull faculties and defiled, scattered minds, it will
be difficult for them to achieve samadhi, unless they concentrate exclusively on one. (i change the word pureland to bodhisattva)

http://www.geocities.com/sinweiy/TenDoubtsaboutPureLand.html

SW: saha world is just a tiny fraction of dharma realms. other worlds have their own affinity depending on what kind of "illness" they have. saha world is world of endurance and it has endurance as an illness, hence best to using such and such teaching as "medication".

sometimes u got to see bodhisattvas as more than just an individual entity. it's about what they represent or specialize. Earth-Store Bodhisattva specialize in fillial piety; Guan Yin specialize in Compassion, Manjushri specialize in Wisdom, etc. in school we have literture teacher, history teacher, science teacher, maths teacher etc. hence the subject literture/history/science/maths is not the name of the person. even the name "Shakyamuni" represent a certain teaching.

if you specialize in fillial piety in the path of bodhisattvahood, i can also address you as Earth Store. get what i mean?

SW: all listen to you at one time, possible? (unless you understand the Avatamsaka sutra, this is not possible at our level of realisation. )

saving all sentient being, is about saving from inside. the last part of 4Universal vows is about （1）自己心里头的众生无边要发愿度。（2）自心烦恼无量要发愿断。（3）自性法门无尽誓愿学。（4）自性里无上佛道，各人皆要发愿来成就。it reflect back to our own mind.

So it's quite hard to understand when I hear from Venerables telling us that certain Buddha or Bodhisattva has no 'yuan' with us, therefore they cannot help us.

SW: hmm, got yuan or no yuan is a personal issue what. u should know who you yourself got yuan with which Buddha/bodhisattva, while others know who they have yuan with. i don't see any big deal about this.

ps: The Buddha(s) is/are teaching you and only you. there's no other people, but Buddhas. All are already Buddhas, while u are sentient being. ---MCK

Spnw07 SG

1) SW: not yet come across, doesn't mean don't have, right? i think there's a lot out there that does praise a practicular bodhisattva in a particular sutra. Reading Lotus Sutra Chapter 25 "Universal Dharma Door ", i did notice Buddha praising Guan Yin. Reading Amitabha sutra, Buddha praise Amitabha.

2) SW: to what i know, Buddha entrust Earth Store from between Buddha's parinirvana till the next coming of Maitreya only. perhaps, during this period of dharma ending age and dark age, what beings most need is the teaching of fillial piety/respectfulness.

If you say it's that Earth-Store Bodhisattva has great affinity with us, isn't it the same for Guan Yin? And maybe all Bodhisattvas from all directions?

3) SW: nay, i got more affinity with Guan Yin. you know, this kind of "selecting all is best than selecting one" question also occur in Pureland school.

http://www.geocities.com/sinweiy/TenDoubtsaboutPureLand.html

4) SW: saha world is just a tiny fraction of dharma realms. other worlds have their own affinity depending on what kind of "illness" they have. saha world is world of endurance and it has endurance as an illness, hence best to using such and such teaching as "medication".

if you specialize in fillial piety in the path of bodhisattvahood, i can also address you as Earth Store. get what i mean?

5) SW: all listen to you at one time, possible? (unless you understand the Avatamsaka sutra, this is not possible at our level of realisation. )

So it's quite hard to understand when I hear from Venerables telling us that certain Buddha or Bodhisattva has no 'yuan' with us, therefore they cannot help us.

6) SW: hmm, got yuan or no yuan is a personal issue what. u should know who you yourself got yuan with which Buddha/bodhisattva, while others know who they have yuan with. i don't see any big deal about this.

ps: The Buddha(s) is/are teaching you and only you. there's no other people, but Buddhas. All are already Buddhas, while u are sentient being. ---MCK

1) I'm not sure if you have compared what is recorded in sutra of Earth-Store Bodhisattva Original Vows with that in Universal Dharma Door. Cos if you had, you would understand what I'm trying to say.

2) That is the explanation that I have heard from Master Chin Kung, but I still have my doubts when I wish to understand further.

3 & 4) This is indeed a funny thing: In the human world, I can understand the need for specialisation, but for Bodhisattvas as well? I have mentioned that all Bodhisattvas' virtue of fillial piety are equal in levels of practice or else they would not have been respected as Bodhisattvas. To teach others you must be better than others a whole lot more. So we know heavenly beings are also filial people when they were alive as humans, but why are they not Bodhisattvas? The reason is their filial piety is not up to standard when compared with Bodhisattvas and not all choose to cultivate bodhicitta.

5) I think you missed out something: I mentioned all listened to the Bodhisattva at a suitable time, not all listen at one time. That is a huge difference in my opinion.

I also agree that the 4 Universal vows ultimately point to awakening and liberating our own mind.

However, when explaining to secular people or beginner Buddhists, we have to be careful and detailed in explaining how this is connected with saving or guiding real people in our lives. If not, they will probably spend too much time meditating and questioning themselves as they think this is all about 'me'.

For example, （1）自己心里头的众生无边要发愿度 : What does it mean? Save your own thoughts? How is this different with （2）自心烦恼无量要发愿断. As for vow 3 and 4, it's even more profound...

6) Seriously I don't know who I have yuan with. Which Bodhisattva should I follow?

Let's assume I come from a clean slate whereby I have heard of the names of many great Bodhisattvas and their sutras, and noticed they all talk about the same thing. So should I anyhow tikam and follow one based on instinct? Is it really ok to adopt a tikam attitude when choosing which to follow?

If you say fillial piety is important, then all should be following Earth-Store and not others. If you say compassion is important, then all should be following Guan Yin. If you say wisdom is important, than all should be following Manjusri Bodhisattva. But yet everyone chooses differently based on their own 'feel'. This shows that some choose based on logic and reasoning, and some chooses based on 'feel'.

And furthermore, filial piety involves compassion too and compassion involves being filial to your parents too. Finally, wisdom encompasses both filial piety and compassion. So it's the same thing, why is it made to sound like they are three different things?

Anyway some can also choose Maitreya Bodhisattva as he too can be regarded a representation of the filial piety virtue. Remember he's gonna become a Buddha soon. So logically speaking, his filial piety virtue is complete as this filial piety nature has been perfected to the acme, his Buddha nature has already fully awakened, therefore he could attain Buddhahood. So if you tell me that Earth Store Bodhisattva alone should represent filial piety, then how about the rest? Don't all Bodhisattvas represent filial piety in their own right, ways and from their past vows?

As a result of the above brainstorming with myself, I told myself that I choose again, after finding out more about the various Bodhisattvas and their core teachings. I don't want to just really choose based on logic or 'feel' alone. In the past I had followed my mother when I was in primary and secondary school days as she has always believed in Guan Yin Bodhisattva and chants the name devoutly. But later she came to know a relative from her maternal family who is a devout practitioner of Amitabha Buddha's Pureland Dharma Door and from there I was introduced to Amitabha Buddha.

For beginners, it is not easy to choose. Especially when they hear about Master Chin Kung's explanation that they should follow Earth Store Bodhisattva as he 'specialises' in filial piety. Then later they should follow Guan Yin for compassion and so on...It confuses and frightens me to learn from so many...

Actually I personally feel that Sakayamuni Buddha specialises in filial piety as well, and so does all past, present and future Bodhisattvas and Buddhas. So I don't understand how the term 'specialisation' or 'representation' is really applied or interpreted in Buddhism.

So I decided to finally choose Amitabha Buddha for 'simplicity', one represent everything, all in one. Amitabha Buddha has perfected in his learning and practice of every human virtue to its greatest height of achievement; all these virtues has achieved full awakening.

Let me summarise: so your yuan with a particular Bodhisattva is not entirely a personal issue. Why? Cos you directly or indirectly influence others with your choice.

Remember how all sentient beings are essentially 'of one body and mind'? So for those who have heard of so many Bodhisattvas' names but are hard put to choose which one? What kind of advice should be given to them?

P.S: Can you also try to answer like the rest or like AEN? I don't wish to copy and paste your quote everytime. I want to be able to click on the 'quote' function and your answer(s) to me immediately appears in a 'quoted' format.

sinweiy SG

5) I think you missed out something: I mentioned all listened to the Bodhisattva at a suitable time, not all listen at one time. That is a huge difference in my opinion.

I also agree that the 4 Universal vows ultimately point to awakening and liberating our own mind.

6) Seriously I don't know who I have yuan with. Which Bodhisattva should I follow?

Let me summarise: so your yuan with a particular Bodhisattva is not entirely a personal issue. Why? Cos you directly or indirectly influence others with your choice.

well, the word "specialize/representaion" is just spoken for the sake of saying to different sentient being who still have discrimination. if beings have no discrimination, we can just say if one specialize in filial piety all the way, they are no different from practicing compassion or wisdom All the way. Core realisation is the same.

u know if Buddhas don't use one bodhisattva name like "Earth Store" to represent filial piety/ultimate respect, then Buddha don't have any name to represent already. without a name, how are beings going to understand? like in school u use "maths" to reprepresent the subject of maths. we don't use maths to represent science. so it's just a name.

then if i use Guan Yin to represent filial piety, then you will ask why not use Manjusri to represent. wah like than i never ending. then if u say, why not use all names. but like that, it can be more confusing with all the names, no? like maths to mean literature + maths + science etcs, also cannot right?

simply put - yuan is in the sense, you feel more close or you feel more comfortable with. no additional meaning.

yes, in deed focusing on Amitabha Buddha is good. Amita simply mean Infinity or All Buddhas. It's using One Buddha to represent all buddhas. good huh.

ps: though using this kind of replying, i may miss out replying all the paragraphs, as u wrote quite a lot...hehe.

Spnw07 SG

simply put - yuan is in the sense, you feel more close or you feel more comfortable with. no additional meaning.

Hmm..I can understand your logic there. However, for human virtues, it cannot be compared directly to the 'maths is not represented as science' analogy.

Human virtues and flaws are far more complicated and profound than any known or unknown secular topic of knowledge, that is why Bodhisattvas take so long to perfect them.

Actually I feel close to most Bodhisattvas and Buddhas' names, but I would generally find it easier to relate on both a rational and emotional level, names like 一切众生喜见佛 than say 地藏 or 观音.

Seriously speaking I still don't feel close to Amitabha Buddha at all, even till now when I'm still practising it, but I feel close to Earth-Store Bodhisattva because of his great compassion to delay Buddhahood and to continously make new and great vows to help all suffering beings with inexplicably messy and negative karmic entanglements.

But because I want to believe in the words of Sakayamuni Buddha and at the same time understand that Zen, Tien Tai or Hua Yen's way of awakening the Buddha nature is way too deep for me, I chose this Amitabha Buddha Pureland dharma door rather quickly.

The yuan that you or most Buddhists speak of sounds as if it is based on feeling alone. But I wish to speak of and understand 'yuan' (affinity) in a way whereby one learns as much as possible about the choices before them and then makes an informed decision. Unless there was no choice at all to begin with. I do know that this may be unique to me, but I also wish to help others who may be choosing, like me too. :)

P.S: If you are not comfortable with using the new way of replying to my posts, then feel free to use any way you like. I would not want you to be restricted in any way when sharing your knowledge with us here.

sinweiy SG

i think be it rational or emotional kind of yuan, as long as it "works" for you, or that you are more "comfortable" that's in itself a form of yuan already. :)

sinweiy SG

Hmm..I can understand your logic there. However, for human virtues, it cannot be compared directly to the 'maths is not represented as science' analogy.

yes, of course it's not exactly the same, hence it's an analogy, it's to give a rough idea, it's not that picky. moreover, i'm also refering to the purpose of "naming". as normally, when people mention the name Guan yin, they normally, reminds them of compassion, as of Manjushri to wisdom for example.

i can even use apple as analogy. when people say apple, it normally, have this first impression of a red round fruit etc. but on a further investigation there can also have green colored apple per se.

so different people have different taste. so we have maths refering to number operation, as to Guan yin to compassion. while we have Subjects refering to an overall naming, as to Bodhisattva to Guan yin, Manjushri, Earth Store etcs and Buddha to Amitabha, Shakyamuni etc. like in school we learn about different subjects, but somebody may prefer or is better in literature as they have this emotional connection, while others prefer or is better in maths as they have this rational connection. all this are a form of yuan in itself.

all and all, different people have different mind set. it's difficult to one size fit all. ultimately, it's just an empty name, that need to be transcended. it's the meaning that need to be addressed. we have to get pass the thinking that Earth store is "someone" out there.

if one can think in this way while not rejecting the need for the different kind of bodhisattvas for conventional usage, you'll have realise the idea of non-duality.

just let it be.

Spnw07 SG

if one can think in this way while not rejecting the need for the different kind of bodhisattvas for conventional usage, you'll have realise the idea of non-duality.

just let it be.

I understand your point but it sounds like Buddhism is too chin chai as in anything goes. Like this also can, like that also can. Sometimes this cannot, that cannot. I blur liao...

I'm asking not just for myself, but also for those who have asked me about why Buddhists pray to so many Gods or Bodhisattvas. Even after giving them the explanation that it is a personal choice as to which Bodhisattva they wish to emulate as long as the individual is comfortable with his/her own choices, they gave me the look as if Buddhists are cult members or look very doubtful or puzzled.

One point about the school analogy, we cannot choose to study only one subject loh. I personally am weak in maths, if possible, I hope to study everything but maths. But yet no choice, I have to study maths.

To me, even Confucius is too high a role model for me to follow liao, much less talk about Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva.

And to clarify, I'm not trying to say that one size fits all works. I'm trying to say that sometimes too many choices creates confusion. Cos at least a very large proportion of Buddhists, beginners or otherwise, cannot really attain true non-duality in their lifetime.

Their practice of 'non-duality' is at most about keeping quiet when they are asked for their views on differences between this and that Bodhisattva.

So members of the public or beginner Buddhists wouldn't know if they are keeping quiet due to ignorance about what they are practising or have really achieved non-duality.

justdoit77 SG

I understand your point but it sounds like Buddhism is too chin chai as in anything goes. Like this also can, like that also can. Sometimes this cannot, that cannot. I blur liao...

Isn't it good to have more bodhisatvas and enlightened being around.
If you have no 缘 with this bodhisatva, other bodhisatva still can help you. When you are practicing the bodhisatva teaching or dharma door, you are benefiting from the bodhisatva already.
All bodhisatva are compassion towards sentient beings like mother care about the children. They will try their very best to help us, manifest in many forms for example deity, dragon, humans that suit people of different conditions. When we pray to let's say amitabha buddha, by just a chant of the name will create a link or a yuan for amitabha buddha to help you.

If this is your friends' definition of cult, then I really wonder what their "religion" teach about.

Spnw07 SG

Isn't it good to have more bodhisatvas and enlightened being around.
If you have no 缘 with this bodhisatva, other bodhisatva still can help you. When one is chanting a bodhisatva's name or mantra, practice his dharma door, you are benefiting from the bodhisatva already.
All bodhisatva are compassion towards sentient beings like mother care about the children. They will try their very best to help us, manifest in many forms for example deity, dragon, humans that suit people of different conditions. When we pray to let's say amitabha buddha, by just a chant of the name will create a link or a yuan for amitabha buddha to help you.

If this is your friends' definition of cult, then I really wonder what their "religion" teach about.

But for mainstream Buddhism, most Buddhists in their lifetimes would be most familiar with the names of Guan Yin, Earth-Store, Manjusri, Sakayamuni Buddha and Amitabha Buddha.

Just these 5 already hard to explain to beginners who ask for advice on who to choose loh. Not forgetting the fact I'm a beginner as well.

If you ask a person who believes in Guan Yin, he/she would advise you to try to chant Guan Yin's name or Guan Yin's sutra. If you ask a person who believes in Manjusri, you would have to practise anatta or emptiness. So on and so forth.

Like that, the beginner blur like siao liao. Let's hope I am the only beginner who thinks and feels like that. That would be good. If not, I hope to help those who are like me, standing at the crossroads leading to the Five Great Names.

Some say learn from Earth-Store cos he specialise in or represent filial piety and filial piety is much needed for people of our times, cos it is observed that people do not know how or don't want to care for their parents. But then Guan Yin don't practise filial piety or is in no capacity to represent filial piety meh, some would ask.

I don't want to always give generic or enigmatic answers to beginners. I wish deeply to think in the shoes of these group of beginners.

I wish to be able to share with them personal experiences when one happens to be a situation of selecting who to learn from.

Only after sharing my personal process of choosing who to follow, then the rest is indeed up to them to decide.

My emphasis is on informed choice. Striking a balance between rationale and emotional appeal.

sinweiy SG

like that cannot chin chai already. praying-type teaching are more suitable for Ah Gong, Ah Ma type.

i presume these are some what educated people? to such "educated" people, proper best to use basic buddhism teaching (refer link). it's normally found in distributions.i learn this in the beginning. it's not so superstition.

http://www.kmspks.org/pdf/Lamp.pdf

but as they investigate, superstition or not would be something else. :)

moreover, the "subject" analogy (which was from old Master Chin Kung actually), would be more rational to them, i think. it's about not seeing the different bodhisattvas as someone or entity that need to be worshipped, but it's about a practice of something wholesome. and that if they practice boundless compassion like Guan Yin, they are also Guan Yin in a way. Any people who practice boundless compassion is Guan Yin.

thus learn that if of any of the ten prefections, one can concentrate on practicing one of them all the way. ie boundless loving kindness, if practice all the way to it's core essence, then it's also the prefection, yes perfection of All the ten perfections altogether, includng transcendent wisdom, giving, endurance, energy, persistent, morality, renunciation, equanimity etc. http://www.simhas.org/basics15.html

meaning, one who reached the core, will automatically realised or conduct the rest. they are inseperatable from the Buddhanature.

so non-duality is equanimity. filial piety is under morality. filial piety can be ultimatly refering to respecting All sentient beings as ur parent.

i choose wisdom to go all the way. my sister in law, wish to choose endurance. some may choose giving/renouciation. i say go all the way. eventually, u will reach realisation.

since study too many subject is confusing, might as well pick one and go all the way. this way of concentrating actually helps calm/clear the mind to finally absorble the rest.

Spnw07 SG

like that cannot chin chai already. praying-type teaching are more suitable for Ah Gong, Ah Ma type.

http://www.kmspks.org/pdf/Lamp.pdf

I understand your views that praying-type may be more suitable for the elderly. However, nowadays, many Ah gong, Ah Ma are not that uneducated any more, unlike our forefathers.

I had come across the book itself for the above link. It is a good introduction to Buddhism; rather simple and concise in language and way of explanation. But this book cannot be read on its own without a Dharma teacher. It's not easy after all to understand emptiness and anatta.

I hope to write books that presents Buddhist views on modern world happenings and human behaviour in a question and answer format. Not too wordy or preachy, but not too simple or hard either to beginners and intermediate learners. I

I hope to write books that beginners or intermediate learners of Buddhism can read and practise on their own, with or without a dharma teacher, as everyone's living and work conditions can be very different. I wonder if it can work out....haiz....

Herzog_Zwei SG

All sentient beings have Buddha Nature.

If you say otherwise then you have no ideas what is Buddha Nature.

Without Buddha Nature, we cannot even be. Hearing, seeing, all are the functions of Buddha Nature.

Are you sure? What comes first, Buddha nature or human nature? Or just nature?

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