Dharma Talk: My Journey from Christianity to Buddhism

last SG · 2007-09-27T10:23:20+00:00

buddha one palm can flatten jesus….

An Eternal Now SG

The goal of Buddhism is end of suffering, leading to no rebirth, rite?

end of INNER suffering, yes. no physical rebirth is for arahats. Bodhisattvas and Buddhas still manifest "rebirth" to deliever sentient beings. As when one attained Buddhahood, one accomprise the Triple Bodies: - Truth Body(Merge with Utimate Truth), Bliss Body(True Happiness) and the Manifestation bodIES(manifest into countless bodies to help beings realised the Utimate Truth).

I think maybe Bodhisattva can't really be called 'reborn', but many 'emanate' or manifest... not sure the right term.

Cos, a Bodhisattva does not "reborn" due to the strength of karma, but appears in Samsara due to the strength of vows.

An Eternal Now SG

And also to add.. the very fundamental meaning of 'God' as 'creator of the universe' does not apply, because Buddhists do not believe in a personal Creator of man and the universe.

An Eternal Now SG

Yes, and apart from moral values other religions' spiritual and psychological aspects must also not be underlooked. For religions like Christianity, their practise of submission to God has large psychological and spiritual impact on their lives. So Christianity is not just a 'belief', but the teachings does help one overcome hurdles and some extent of sufferings.

Even our forummer Thusness who recently attended a church sermon has said that their form of 'self inquiry' (but emphasize on God) and practise submission is quite beneficial and if he had come into contact with the teachings 20 years ago and not yet been a Buddhist he wld have become a Christian.

Being a Buddhist however, we do not suscribe to their beliefs (such as Creationism, etc), but we must not (and this includes non-Buddhist free thinker, atheists or other irreligionists etc) just overlook the essence of their practise and judge them or criticise them merely on 'surface beliefs'.

Herzog_Zwei SG

If it ain't a belief, then can you tell me where does their God exist physically in this moment?

An Eternal Now SG

Now I do agree that there are teachings of Christianity that are faith-based, belief-based. And I told you I do not share the same beliefs as them, such as regarding Creationism and God.

However we must not overlook the impact and power of surrendering/submission, their form of psychology/spirituality, etc that are also part of the teachings. In other words, the values of the teachings.

An Eternal Now SG

Karma is a truth, not just a 'tool' to discourage people.

But talking about discouragement, whether karma is immediate or not immediate doesn't matter. Eventually it will ripen when conditions are there, so Buddhists will know to avoid such evil even if there are some benefits in the short term, but in the long run, karmic effects will catch up and we will suffer.

So there is a saying by Buddha... can't remember the exact words, you can escape all around the world, you can hide everywhere, but theres one thing you can't hide from -- your own karma.

Herzog_Zwei SG

I do not agree that their belief is important else they couldn't be living on earth now and trying to do their God's Will on earth.

An Eternal Now SG

Like I said I am not talking about beliefs and debating about their beliefs.

But rather the values of their own spiritual practises must not be overlooked.

You may want to look at my post and Ironside's writings in this thread: For my thoughts are not your thoughts

Herzog_Zwei SG

TGE: this posting of yours comes close to making sense.
But I don't believe that karma work so as it is completely random in effects and timing.

For christianity's salvation, you forgot about the accept Christ and repent portion. Without repentance, why bother to accept Christ?

TheGoodEarth SG

Central to Christianity is the belief in an omnipotent (all-powerful) being called God, who created everyting and nothing happens without his will. God comes first and humanity (only believers and chosen ones) comes second. Everything else relegated to below believers.
The belief in one and only true God is the excuse for segregation believers from non-believers, evangelising (colonizing) and even persecuting or executing them.
Carried to the extreme by the political powerful or terrorists, can result in devastating effects, as morality is thrown out of the window, because submission to God's will is paramount.

An Eternal Now SG

Yes that is the problem of such beliefs. But I am not talking about beliefs if you have read my message.

TheGoodEarth SG

This world will see Peace only when the notion of God, the One and only One, etc. is debunked. There is no God. Man created God.
If you are serious about religion, then you must read history, anthropology and sociology. Throw out theology - it is just crap. Open your mind, do a comparative study, explore, search, research. Don't shut your mind, follow blindly a faith, go by family tradition, or subject to peer pressure. Most people who professed a religion actually know very little or if they do, simply learned by heart the bible, quran or sutra. These people can quote practically every word, verse and chapter of these 'holy' scriptures or books. But they all lacked one thing - common sense! When you put everything together, it seems that they all copy one another, twist them to suit their agenda or purpose and sell it to the masses like opium.
Remember this: if there is really a God, omnipotent and creator of all things - He will be greatly saddened by the madness of human, the atrocities and inhumanities that are worse than any beast that walked this earth. It will be one of His greatest regret and surely it is within His Power to end it! But alas, there is no God. Man created the God to serve its own selfish purpose.
Note: I am talking about God, not about the philosophies of Buddha, Jesus, Confuscius, Aristotle or Mohammed. While some of the afore-mentioned became the 'founder' of present day religions, they are all humans, not god, not angels, not son of god, not the messiah or prophet or messenger of god. They invoked god, so that what they taught or said have credence. Today, you can also hear or see people doing the same but without much success. They can only be successful if they resort to evangelism, colonisation, forced conversion, crusades, holy wars, and lately terrorism!!!

Beyond Religion SG

On the whole, I agree with you. Nevertheless, what you said can only be applied to monotheistic religions.

TheGoodEarth SG

Whether monotheistic or otherwise (unless atheistic), if the notion of God, or god-like, or some supernatural being or spirit is central to the religion, it will have the characteristics I mentioned in my earlier post. The extent may differ. It may not manifest itself in such extreme action like killing, but in subtle form of persecution.

TheGoodEarth SG

The simple fact is this: In any religion, as long as you accept their teachings and beliefs whatever that is said or written, and you are a 'member' either by faith, allegiance, conversion, baptism, or whatever rites, you will be assured of a place in Heaven.
So, to go to Heaven is not difficult at all. You see, like all manner of materialism, there has to be a promise, an incentive, a reward - in exchange for loyalty, faithful-ship, and follow-sheep. Basically, that's is animal behaviour!

An Eternal Now SG

Yep, agreed. That is why Buddhism shld be an alternative to be considered.

Herzog_Zwei SG

Wrong, that's why irreligionism should be an alternative to be considered.

An Eternal Now SG

Yes and that too. But one must be open minded and look to Buddhism as an alternative first before making a decision.

That means, he must be open minded and look to ALL alternatives first before making a decision. One of the alternative that you wld choose cld v well be Buddhism.

TheGoodEarth SG

What is irreligionism? It is that same as no religion? Or is it anti-religion?
Whatever religion, there are some good as well as bad. I do not buy the idea that there is one good religion. I can acccept one good philosophy, thought, saying, etc.
Any religion today has already been altered from its original 'goodness'. And the very people who did that are those who organised it for mass consumption. For it to be consumed by the masses, it has to be palatable, saleable, appealable. I cannot but agree with Karl Marx - religion is the opium of the masses! Like opium, religion when ingested become intoxicated, fixated, addictive and illusionary!

An Eternal Now SG

What Karl Marx said is true only when spirituality has been reduced to a belief system.

Whereas, in certain contemplative circles like Buddhism, spirituality goes far beyond beliefs and thoughts.

It is the way to direct transformation and insights.

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