Questions regarding the triple gems

Isis SG · 2007-01-24T01:05:42+00:00

That's fine but if something you do is harmful to you or others or both, we should avoid as a Buddhist.

Isis SG

Ehhh...

Last afternoon, my friend told me that her auntie whom went to take refuge into the triple Gems.. says after taking refugre, one cannot eat meat as it is against the rule... and im like are-u-sure-anot? cos i don't believe so...

but just to be on a safe side and to clarify doubts...

so it is true???

is it true that after taking refuge the triple Gems, u can't converted to other religion/or taking refuge into other religion?

paperflower SG

i still don't think so that one cannot convert to other religion when after taken refuge in the tripple gem. like any religion, a person would normally think twice or thrice whether wanna take any refuge ceremony and won't anyhow convert after that.

when i took my refuge, my family also did tell me that i cannot take meat and whatsoever and it will become a strict routine of life dedicated to vegetarian and chanting all the time. it sounds more like a rule to me than a logic especially for lay buddhist. not eating meat is more like practicing compassion and it is natural for some to have aversion towards food that are of meat after understanding or coming to learn about the mahayana tradition. so in this case, its not a rule or a must but its more of an insight than mere regulations implied by any monastic authority board for lay people to "must follow". ultimately, whatever happens is one's own causes and also one's own ability to clear and fix.

and on top of that i'd like to add on is that some even told me that they still didn't "dare" to take refuge in tripple gem till today because of that rumour of rules and regulations which they misunderstood some of the meaning behind.

Eric Cartman SG

it’s just a ritual and i took the ceremony becos i was cheated

An Eternal Now SG

No such thing... unless he is from the cult called Yi-Guan-Dao, which is not Buddhism.. but that cult is very strict on having their followers become vegetarians. Yi Guan Dao also have their own refuge ceremonies and some people mistakenly confuse the cult with Buddhism. So you may want to check whether your friend's auntie has entered an orthodox Buddhist tradition.

In Buddhism, Buddhists have the choice whether to become vegetarian, it is especially recommended in Mahayana Buddhism as a part of Bodhisattva practise, but those who choose not to be vegetarian (I am currently not a vegetarian yet as well), should abide by the 5 clean meat principles, and meat eaten in this way results in lighter karma as no direct killing is involved:

Taking refuge is very important because it plants a deep karmic affinity with the triple gems in your 8th consciousness. By the way don't anyhow say hor, you willingly wanted to take refuge what.. Anyway if you anyhow say you will create bad karma.

Eric Cartman SG

For the not so easily impressionable people then yeah, you need a ritual to drill it into their heads.

"Willingly". That's why it is called being cheated. This little bit of karma I can take it.

An Eternal Now SG

Cheating =

v. intr.

1. To act dishonestly; practice fraud.
2. To violate rules deliberately, as in a game: was accused of cheating at cards.
3. Informal To be sexually unfaithful: cheat on a spouse.
4. Baseball To position oneself closer to a certain area than is normal or expected: The shortstop cheated toward second base.

In any case you willing to take refuge without being cheated under English term.

Isis SG

yeah i aso suspected that the aunt took refuge under I-Kwan-tao but my friend can't really remember and she is kind of hesitant to take refuge..

This remind me about beef, many people whom are buddhist still believe that we can't eat beef but the fact is we can right?... the excuse that they usually give is that their grandmother and mother all say so-> so their conviction power is stronger than mine la.. actually im quite curious.. the legend of Guan yin whom manifested into a cow to save the cows out of compassion, is the legend true?

i think the best thing is bring her see a venerable and let the venerable answer her doubts better cos she doesn't seem to believe me...

bohiruci SG

i wish to know wats the in-between question that was ask in order to help u

i will send u a pm with my hp...do call me Smile

i hope to help u Smile
Cool Cool

An Eternal Now SG

Yes.. misunderstandings. Also some people do not want to take refuge because of 5 precepts. So my Master did not ask people to take 5 precepts along with 3 refuge, although 5 precepts should serve as a guideline for us. It is still important, but not as a form of vow. (From what I learnt, Mahayana Buddhism is actually quite lax in general and does not require 5 precepts to be taken along with refuge, although in Theravada this may be different)

http://www.jenchen.org.sg/vol7no4a.htm

The Jen Chen Buddhism (Humanity Vehicle Buddhism) advocates to observe the Five Precepts [1] and to perform the Ten Virtuous Deeds [2]. Naturally Jen Chen Buddhism based its fundamentals on the Five Precepts and Ten Virtuous Deeds. In Buddhism Vinaya [3] means precepts and disciplines. Of course, every person who is learning and practicing Buddhism has to abide by the Vinaya. But in reality it is not easy, for how many people can do that? Buddhist monks and nuns must observe many precepts and disciplines, and it is no mean feat if the lay-Buddhists can observe just the Five Precepts. A person who cannot even abstain from killing, stealing, sexual misconduct, telling lies and consuming intoxicants, would not qualify to be a lay-Buddhist of the Humanity Vehicle, what more to say about being a Bodhisattva of the Greater Vehicle?

I hope lay-Buddhists understand that they should not be overly ambitious in their cultivation and in the process neglect the fundamentals. The first step is to conscientiously observe the Five Precepts and perform the Ten Virtuous Deeds, and then they can truly call themselves practitioners of the Humanity Vehicle. It would be ideal if everybody observe the Five Precepts and perform the Ten Virtuous Deeds first; and if the conditions and your capacity permit, proceed further to observe the Bodhisattva Precepts and practise the Bodhisattva path of the Greater Vehicle.

All Buddhists need to understand the concept of Vinaya. It consists of two parts: our dignity and demeanour, and the boundary of discipline. We must be dignified in all that we do and under all circumstances in our daily life, including the way we walk, stand, sit and even the way we lie down. We need to be dignified in our speech and actions, and besides

avoiding all evil deeds and performing virtuous deeds, we also need to exercise compassion. Then, we are truly followers of Buddha.

All Buddhists need to observe the Vinaya. However, we are not the Vinaya School of Buddhism which emphasizes precepts and disciplines. Many people are afraid to embrace Buddhism because they are afraid of the many strict precepts and disciplines, and that monks and nuns have to observe hundreds of these. It is a pity that such good Buddhist teachings are rejected because of this reason. Thus, to begin with, it is advisable not to place too much emphasis on precepts and disciplines.

It is not uncommon to hear of husbands encouraging their wives to take refuge in Buddhism, observe the Five Precepts, and the Bodhisattva Precepts. But, when asked why their husbands are not doing the same, a typical reply is that their husbands feel that there are too many precepts and disciplines in Buddhism and as businessmen these precepts and disciplines are an inconvenience to them.

From this point, we can see that many people have misunderstood and are afraid of precepts and disciplines. Jen Chen Buddhism does not use precepts to shackle oneself, but it does not mean that Jen Chen Buddhism does not observe the precepts. On the contrary, precepts are strictly observed. Jen Chen Buddhism, does not refer to them as precepts, but rather as methods to safeguard blessings, that is to safeguard the blessings and happiness which we already have. For example, an originally happy and blissful family will become broken if the husband or wife neglects the family by indulging in gambling and drinking, or night-clubbing. Therefore, we say that to observe the precepts is the same as to safeguard our blessings. Isnt it a very good thing that we uphold our existing blessing in this manner?

Take another example: If a child shifts a plate that was safely placed in the centre of the table to its edge, the mother will say, This wont do! Put it back to the centre. Of course, the plate is safer when it is in the middle of the table rather than at the edge. Should it drop and shatters, it also means that some of our blessings are expended. If the plate costs a certain amount of money and we need to replace it, then the total damage is doubled. Thus, when we understand this principle, we must be alert and raise our awareness so that regardless of where we are, we are safeguarding our blessings and happiness all the time, and we constantly examine ourselves if our actions are frittering away our blessings. For example, if husbands or wives do not discipline themselves and have no sense of propriety, they casually indulge in extra-marital affairs without regards for the consequences, then they are ruining their own happiness.

Therefore, Jen Chen Buddhism advocates that we constantly safeguard the blessings which we already have. This is the way Jen Chen Buddhism observes the precepts. If we talk about the precepts incessantly, then it discourages people from learning Buddhism. When we understand this principle, we must fulfill our responsibility as a human being, be a good person, learn and practise the teachings of Jen Chen Buddhism, avoid doing all evil deeds, do all good deeds, purify the mind, and safeguard our blessings.

Notes:

[1] The Five Precepts: Refrain from (1) killing, (2) stealing ,(3) lying, (4) sexual misconduct, (5) consumption of intoxicants.

[2] The Ten Virtuous Deeds: Refrain from (1) killing, (2) stealing, (3) sexual misconduct , (4) false speech, (5) frivolous and meaningless talk, (6) double-tongue or tale-bearing, (7) slanderous speech, ( Cool greed, (9) ill will, (10) ignorance or perverted views.

[3] Vinaya: Rules and disciplines, an intuitive apprehension of which, both written and unwritten, enables the individual to act properly under all circumstances.

[4] The Vinaya School of Buddhism: Emphasizes the monastic discipline; founded in China during the Tang Dynasty.

Isis SG

AEN, Can u post on the special significance and benefits of seeking refuge in the Triple Gems for the benefits of others?...

Isis SG

mm i really don't understand the in-btw quesions hehe..

what do u mean?

Thanks anyway Smile

bohiruci SG

the first question and 2nd sound disconnected ..... beside the first question

there should be some question that ur fren ask... and what abt the Buddhst cannot convert .... ?

An Eternal Now SG

Do share if you found any articles about taking refuge as well Smile

http://www.jenchen.org.sg/beginnin.htm

Why practise Buddhism?

Enlightenment is the reason to practise Buddhism

Why do we practise Buddhism? Buddha means awareness and enlightenment, enlightening oneself as well as others. Having attained the highest level of enlightenment, one becomes Buddha. Because all sentient beings are blinded by ignorance, confusion, worries and sufferings, it is only through the practise of Buddhism that we can liberate ourselves from these sufferings and worries, and attain the real happiness and bliss. Sakyamuni Buddha is the teacher of our Saha world. There are also many Buddhas in the many other worlds. Sakyamuni Buddha lived in this world for 81 years, of which he spent 49 years expounding over 300 discourses on the Dharma. Of the Dharma which he expounded, the Humanity Vehicle Buddhism or Jen Chen Buddhism is most relevant and most suitable for humanity.
There are 5 vehicles of Buddhism, namely,

1. Humanity Vehicle Buddhism or
Jen Chen Buddhism,
2. Deva Vehicle Buddhism,
3. Sravaka Vehicle Buddhism,
4. Pratyeka-Buddha Vehicle Buddhism,
5. Bodhisattva Vehicle Buddhism.

The Buddhism that we are promoting is the orthodox Dharma that Sakyamuni Buddha has expounded to humanity, that is, the Jen Chen Buddhism. Because the Buddha manifested in the human form to attain Buddhahood, and we are all human beings, we therefore promote Jen Chen Buddhism. This is the Buddhism for humanity.

Because human beings live in a world in which sufferings are created by emotions, passions and lusts, they become confused. Thus, the enlightened and compassionate Buddha expounded the Dharma to bring salvation to humanity and to lead them from confusion to realization. Realization means enlightenment, and it is only through enlightenment that we can liberate ourselves from sufferings, attain happiness, and unfold our wisdom. Hence, that is the reason Buddha preached to lead sentient beings into the fold of Buddhism.

How to be a Buddhist? How does one start?

Learning Buddhism starts with taking refuge

It is a simple matter to be a Buddhist. Yet, it is also not easy. A verse from the Buddhist sutra reads: "Avoid all evils; do all that are good; purify ones mind. These are the teachings of all Buddhas." One may ask about the difference between Buddhism and Christianity, or indeed the other religions. The majority of us have the concept that all religions are the same: they all teach us to be good. Indeed, most religions teach to avoid all evils and do all that are good. However, purifying ones mind is the underlying tenet of Buddhism. In general, other religions are still within the transmigration of the six realms - the realm of celestial being, human being, asura, animal, ghost and hell, and within the fiery of the Three Planes of existence - world of sensuous desires, world of forms and world of formless. Buddhism is different from all other religions.

How to be a Buddhist? First of all, we need to understand that Buddhists are categorised into those who believe in the Buddha, and those who learn from the Buddha. Those who believe in the Buddha are believers of Buddhism. This category is further subdivided into those who believe blindly, that is, being superstitious, and those who exercise wisdom in their beliefs. Learning Buddhism, however, is different. In learning Buddhism, we cultivate to correct our conduct and habits, we carry out religious duties, and promote the Dharma for the good of sentient beings. We follow the Buddha in his cultivation and practices. That is learning Buddhism.

How does one start? The best way to start is to take refuge in the Three Treasures - the Buddha, the Dharma and the Sangha. Only then, is one really a Buddhist. While on the path of learning Buddhism, there are many things that we ought to do. The most basic of which is to be aware of our self serving and evil habits, and to eradicate these habits. When our mind is impure, we need to purify it. When we are pure and everyone in the family is pure, then our society is pure. When every society is pure, then the entire humanity is pure. In this way, the world becomes a pure land.

How to become an authentic Buddhist?

To be an authentic Buddhist

To be an authentic Buddhist, firstly, one has to take refuge in the Three Treasures - the Buddha, Dharma and Sangha. After taking refuge, one has to learn and practise the Dharma, understand the Law of Cause and Effect, and stop being superstitious. In addition, one should observe the Five Precepts

* refrain from killing,
* refrain from stealing,
* refrain from lying,
* refrain from adultery,
* refrain from consumption of intoxicants

performing the Ten Virtuous Deeds

* refrain from killing,
* refrain from stealing,
* refrain from lying,
* refrain from adultery,
* refrain from frivolous and meaningless talk,
* refrain from tale-bearing,
* refrain from slanderous speech,
* refrain from covetousness,
* refrain from ill-will,
* refrain from pereverted views

Learning and practising Buddhism, eradicate self serving and evil habits, seek liberation, unfold ones wisdom and follow the Bodhisattva Path. This is the way to be a righteous Buddhist.

Does one absolutely need to take refuge to learn Buddhism?

Taking refuge and learning Buddhism

Certainly. Just like a student, one needs to register in a school before commencing lessons. Being a Buddhist one needs to take refuge and form a cause with the Three Treasures - the Buddha, the Dharma and the Sangha. Nowadays, many people learn Buddhism, but the majority are either superstitious or lacking in the correct concept. This is because they did not take refuge, and do not follow what the Buddha taught. To be an authentic Buddhist, one needs to take the following steps: take refuge, observe the precepts, and follow the Buddhas teaching to cultivate ones conduct.

Are there any advantages in taking refuge?

There is brightness in taking refuge

There are many, many advantages in taking refuge. If you were to ask somebody about the advantages of going to university, he will tell you about the many advantages: you can become an engineer or a doctor after graduating from the university. There is an enormous amount of knowledge, principles and theories which one would be able to understand when one goes to university. It is the same with taking refuge. The many things which we do not understand before, become clear to us when we have unfold our wisdom after taking refuge to learn Buddhism. Being without wisdom is like the night, the room is dark and we do not know how many people are in it. With wisdom is like turning on the light, with one look we know what is in the room and how many people are there. Turning on the light is analogous to the brightness in our mind. With brightness we can understand many things. These are the advantages of taking refuge, learning Buddhism and unfolding our wisdom.

An Eternal Now SG

http://www.jenchen.org.sg/vol4no2c.htm

Taking refuge and morality
By Venerable Shen-Kai

In the same way that we are recognised as students only after we are enrolled with a particular institution and begin to take lessons, we are truly Buddhists only after we have taken refuge in the Three Treasures and begin to learn and practise what the Buddha taught. Taking refuge means to return to the Buddha's domain and to rely on the Buddha, the Dharma and the Sangha as our teacher. An important aspect of being a Buddhist is to observe the code of morality - that of 'benefiting others and self.'

WE ALL know that a formal education is essential for knowledge - understanding the science of reasoning, building a strong foundation and understanding the code of ethics, so as to prepare ourselves as a useful member of the society. For a university education, one first needs to register and take the required entrance examinations. Upon qualifying, one needs to attend the lectures. Only then is one a university student. If you read widely and is knowledgeable, and you attend the university lectures from outside the lecture hall to the extent that you feel that you understand as much as the students in the lecture hall, still, nobody believes nor are you recognised as a university student.

It is the same with learning Buddhism. The entrance to Buddhism is very broad and there are many side entrances. How then can one be considered an authentic practitioner of Buddhism? Thus, a formal ceremony to take refuge is very important. You may have read many books on Buddhism and you may consider yourself a Buddhist. In reality, without taking refuge you have not yet form a cause or basis with the Buddha (Note from AEN: In Chinese, we know it as Jie2 Yuan2), the Dharma and the Sangha. Hence, according to Buddhism you are not yet a Buddhist.

What does taking refuge mean? In mandarin this phrase is made up of two characters: "gui" meaning to return to and "yi" meaning to rely on. From the aeons of births, from time immemorial, the Buddha-nature in each and everyone of us is an integral part of the Buddha domain. It is because of ignorance that we are departed from this domain and are caused to exist in the fire of the three planes of existence, namely, the worlds of sensuous desire, form and the formless, and to transmigrate in the six realms of existence, namely, deva, human being, asura, animal, ghost and hell. At times we are in the heavenly realm, yet at others we may be human, ghost, animal or in hell. It is like leaving the comforts of our home and parents to wander about as a vagabond. After having encountered a lot of difficulties and sufferings, and being helpless, we finally remember our parents at home and decide to return home to them.

It is the same with Buddhism. After departing from the Buddha's domain and having arrived at the three planes of existence, experienced the transmigration in the six realms and a lot of suffering, we decide to return to the Buddha's domain. Having returned, we then rely on the Buddha, the Dharma and the Sangha, collectively termed as the Three Treasures or Triratna, as our teacher. We rely on the Dharma expounded by the Buddha as our compass in life. Regardless of our occupation, whether we are home or in society, we use the Dharma as a guide to living and advance towards the direction of the brightness of Buddhism. Just as a vagabond who has returned home rely on the material support and the guidance of his parents to live a proper life of peace and well being, it is the same principle with taking refuge.

To take refuge in the three treasures means taking refuge in the precious Buddha, the precious Dharma and the precious Sangha. The precious Buddha refers to all the Buddhas of the ten directions (eight directions of the compass, and the nadir and zenith), and the three periods (past, present and future). To take refuge in the Buddha means to sincerely become a disciple of the Buddha. It does not mean to buy an image of the Buddha, place it on an altar and called oneself a Buddhist. The precious Buddha is invaluable and therefore cannot be bought with money. The precious Dharma is the teachings of all the Buddhas of the ten directions and the three periods and also cannot be bought with money. It is the same with the precious Sangha, it also cannot be bought with money. It is only when we sincerely take refuge in the three treasures that we can call ourselves disciples of the three treasures. The precious Sangha are Buddhist monks and nuns who renounced the worldly life to learn and practise the Buddha's teachings and to promote the Dharma. Having taken refuge in the precious Sangha we address them as "Masters". One has a master only after taking refuge. It is therefore obvious that masters also cannot be bought. Thus, they are called treasures.

We become disciples of the three treasures after taking refuge. Disciples of the three treasures are Buddhists who learn and practise the correct doctrines of the Buddha. We pay respect to the Bodhisattvas and learn from the Bodhisattvas. We also need to be Bodhisattvas ourselves, eradicate our self-serving temperaments, and practise according to the teachings. Bodhisattvas possess the virtuous quality of great compassion. Thus, we need to emulate the great compassion of the Bodhisattvas to consider ourselves as Buddhists.

In Buddhism we burn incense and bow before the Buddha. The fragrance of the incense is symbolic of morality. The significance of the practice is that we want to uphold the code of ethics and morality and let its fragrance permeates across the entire universe. As Buddhists, first and foremost, we need to examine ourselves if we are righteous in our morality. Jen Chen Buddhism defines the principle morality as "Benefiting self and others". For example, a doctor who excels in his studies and skills in practising medicine is said to possess the correct principles of medical practice. If, as a doctor he possesses such excellent knowledge and skills but he refuses to treat the sick even when begged to, or he charges unreasonably high fees, then he is said to be lacking in medical ethics. Similarly, if the patient is very poor and the doctor does not show compassion and overcharges him, and perhaps even does not completely treat the sickness, then he is also lacking in medical ethics.

Students of law may excel in their law studies. These become their correct principles of study. However, if having qualified as attorneys, they fail to observe these principles and are dubious in character, then they are lacking in morality. Furthermore, if as an attorney he overcharges or fails to discharge his duty in carrying out justice, then he has no morals. A skilful swimmer has already acquired the correct principles of swimming. Yet, if he fails to act to rescue a drowning person, then he has failed in morality. On the other hand, you may be a person of great compassion, but you cannot swim. Yet, you didn't hesitate to save a drowning person. In the end not only do you fail to save him, but also you lose your own life. That is also being immoral.

The above are a few simple examples to illustrate the principles of morality. Even scholars and authorities find it difficult to agree on a common definition of morality. It is even more difficult for the masses to observe them. Thus, Jen Chen Buddhism uses a very simple definition, 'Benefiting others and self'. It is hoped that in future authorities of education would adopt this principle in the curriculum. Only then, I believe, will we know and observe national and social morals. Thus, when we want to build our country, each and everyone of us needs to understand the principle of morality, be moral in our conduct and have an ethical culture.

When we have taken refuge we are students of the Buddha. We need to be ethical and moral, and we need to zealously observe the code of morality. In this way, as a human being, our conduct becomes complete and fulfilling. If, as a Buddhist one is ignorant of the principles of morality, then taking refuge does not serve any purpose. When we take refuge, therefore, it is to observe the code of morality.

paperflower SG

regarding taking refuge in the tripple gem, i ever encountered an elderly lady telling me that why you young people wanna take refuge? it's for old folks. because once you take refuge, you have to become a full time vegetarian. she further commented that even if a person has affinity with buddhism also no need to go to extreme like taking refuge in tripple gem especially for young people. she asked me why didn't my family got angry and go against my decision to taking the refuge...
Shocked the only thing that came to my mind when i heard all these is "ignorance" and that the so called "logic" i heard was like a script they followed passed down from mouth to mouth which not only sounded meaningless but also depicts the person who said it didn't sound like she understood why she would say that to a person who sincerely wished to take refuge in the tripple gem....

alot of buddhist are misguided.
alot of non-buddhist are also mis-informed.

Isis SG

eh.. another of my friend said that after taking refuge into triple Gems, u can't scold or curse people... is it true ?

paperflower SG

cursing & scolding people is refrained not only by word of mouth but also from the mind - the intent. but even if not taken refuge, it is still not gracious to be scolding & cursing others. whats goes around comes around.
people scold & curse for many reasons but all the reasons doesn't really give any solution. they do so cos of habit, cos of excuses "i'm rough person i'm like that wan", cos its cool & hip, cos of anger, cos of hatred, cos of impatience, a form of disrespect for another being - feelings & situation. the more a person scolds or curses, the anger or the urge to do continue more & becomes stronger and it goes on and on and on....
so tiring.... so suffering....

Isis SG

yeah but my fren doesn't want to take refuge becos of this.. cos she know she will scold or curse people.

is there such a rule ?

Herzog_Zwei SG

Alot of non-buddhist are also well-informed, just depends on who you meet as the man on the road. Laughing

paperflower SG

Laughing then it's your blessings that you meet the well-informed one.