Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Slightly edited from the first topic in our forum regarding
Creationism: How the Brahma believed He was God?
In Buddha's days there were many many different teachings, one
popular one was Brahmanism. In fact the Brahma was still worshipped
nowadays. Brahma was known to be "The Supreme One, the All-mighty,
the All-seeing, the Ruler, the Lord of all, the Maker, the Creator,
the Chief of All".
In Buddhism, the Mahabrahma resides in the 1st Jhana plane, the
first plane among the 8 jhanic planes. There were higher realms
above where he lives that he was unaware of, and above it all,
beyond the 8 Jhanic planes and all Samsaric planes, is Nirvana.
Nevertheless all the devas below the 1st Jhana planes considered
him as the Creator God. Buddha did not subscribe to the belief of
such a notion that the Universe and its Inhabitants were the
Creation of the Mahabrahma. He met with the Brahma, asked him
questions which he could not answer. Eventually he has taken refuge
in the Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha.
The Buddha was also known to have said this,
If the creator of the world
entire
They call God, of every being be the Lord
Why does he order such misfortune
If the creator of the world entire
They call God, of every being be the Lord
Why prevail deceit, lies and ignorance
And he such inequity and injustice create?
If the creator of the world entire
They call God, of every being be the Lord
Then an evil master is he, (O Aritta)
Knowing what's right did let wrong prevail!
When the previous universe was destroyed and this universe was
formed, the Mahabrahma was first to be reborn. Other subsequent
brahmas/devas were to be reborn.
'On this, brethren, the one who
was first reborn thinks thus to himself: " I am Brahmà, the Great
Brahmà, the Supreme One, the Mighty, the All-seeing, the Ruler, the
Lord of all, the Maker, the Creator, the Chief of all, appointing
to each his place, the Ancient of days the Father of all that are
and are to be. 'These other beings are of my creation. And why is
that so? A while ago I thought, 'Would that they might come!' And
on my mental aspiration, behold the beings came." DN 1
2:5
In reality, the universe works by the law of Karma and he has no
control over the system of karma.
The Venerable Ledi Sayadaw, a highly renowned Myanmar scholar-monk
of the first part of this century, gave a careful analysis of the
powers of Maha Brahma in his Niyama Dipani (MB pp. 138-39). He
states that although Maha Brahma can perform all sorts of
transformations, he cannot actually create independent creatures,
change the kammic law of cause and effect, or keep anyone from
growing old or dying. Brahma can use his special powers to
transport a man to the brahma plane for a short visit, but he
cannot ensure that someone will be reborn there.
from http://www.jenchen.org.sg/vol5no3f.htm:
When he came to know about
Sakyamuni Buddha in the human world who speaks of the universal
truth, he was curious and arrived at the human world with the
intention to debate with the Buddha. The Buddha, with his ability
to know another's mind, knew his intention and asked, "You claim to
be the creator of the human race and all things in the universe, is
this a fact?"
The king replied, "Yes, it is."
Buddha continued to question him, "Since you created life, why did
you also create death? Is death created by you too?"
The king paused for while, and thinking that everyone loves life
and nobody welcomes death, he replied, "I did not create
death."
Buddha asked him again, "All human beings experience sickness, did
you create sickness also?" The king knew that nobody likes to be
ill, and he replied, "I did not create illness."
Buddha asked many questions in succession, but the king denied that
he created them. Eventually, he admitted that he did not create the
universe and all things in it, and certainly not the human race.
The king of heavens was full of regrets and he felt ashamed.
Finally, he accepted Buddha as his teacher and invited Him to
spread the Dharma in the heavens.
-----------------------------
http://www.mahindarama.com/e-library/whybuddhism2.html
"To those who talked about the
first cause of this world, the Buddha responded by saying that it
is impossible to find a first cause since everything is changing,
interdependent and conditioned by other things. Something that acts
as the cause in the present may become the effect in the future.
Later that same effect may again become the cause. Such phenomenon
continues ad infinitum. It is called the universal law of Anicca or
impermanency.
However, Buddhism is largely Agnostic rather than Atheist. We
believe that pondering over such things brings no benefits at all
to our spiritual practice, enlightenment, and liberation from
samsara.
Kinds of speech to be
avoided by contemplatives
"Whereas some priests and contemplatives, living off food given in
faith, are addicted to talking about lowly topics such as these --
talking about kings, robbers, ministers of state; armies, alarms,
and battles; food and drink; clothing, furniture, garlands, and
scents; relatives; vehicles; villages, towns, cities, the
countryside; women and heroes; the gossip of the street and the
well; tales of the dead; tales of diversity [philosophical
discussions of the past and future], the creation of the
world and of the sea, and talk of whether things exist or
not -- he abstains from talking about lowly topics such as these.
This, too, is part of his virtue.
"Whereas some priests and contemplatives, living off food given in
faith, are addicted to debates such as these -- 'You understand
this doctrine and discipline? I'm the one who understands this
doctrine and discipline. How could you understand this doctrine and
discipline? You're practicing wrongly. I'm practicing rightly. I'm
being consistent. You're not. What should be said first you said
last. What should be said last you said first. What you took so
long to think out has been refuted. Your doctrine has been
overthrown. You're defeated. Go and try to salvage your doctrine;
extricate yourself if you can!' -- he abstains from debates such as
these. This, too, is part of his virtue."
-- DN 2
Ten wholesome topics of conversation
"There are these ten topics of [proper] conversation. Which ten?
Talk on modesty, on contentment, on seclusion, on non-entanglement,
on arousing persistence, on virtue, on concentration, on
discernment, on release, and on the knowledge & vision of
release. These are the ten topics of conversation. If you were to
engage repeatedly in these ten topics of conversation, you would
outshine even the sun & moon, so mighty, so powerful -- to say
nothing of the wanderers of other sects."
-- AN X.69
-------
"Malunkhyaputta Sutta stresses that whether the universe was
created or uncreated, finite or infinite, is irrelevant to our main
spiritual concerns: the cause and cessation of suffering:
"Therefore Malunkhyaputta, bear the undeclared as undeclared.
Malunkhyaputta, what are the not declared? The world is eternal, is
not declared by me. The world is not eternal, is not declared by
me. They are not essential for the principles of the holy life,
they do not lead to turning away, to detachment, to cessation, to
appeasement, to realisation, to enlightenment and to extinction.
Malunkhyaputta, what are the declared by me? This, is unpleasant,
is declared. This, is its arising, is declared. This, is its
cessation is declared. This is the path to its cessation, is
declared. Malunkhyaputta, why are these declared by me? These are
the essentials for the principles of the holy life; they lead to
turning away, to detachment, to cessation, to appeasement, to
realisation, to enlightenment and to extinction. Malunkhyaputta, I
declare them." MN 64"
