I, a Singaporean Chinese refuse to speak Mandarin

last SG · 2010-05-04T01:32:51+00:00

Are you sure?He obviously has an agenda.Just look at his other threads.Another elitist asshole in the making.i try not to form an impression from the many t...

BanguIzai SG

That itself is part of the logical fallacy I was pointing out.

Welsh immigrants descendants in America are not speaking Welsh anymore. Therefore, he refused to speak Mandarin?

What's next?

Chinese in China are learning to speak English. Singaporeans in Singapore should therefore learn to speak Mandarin?

Let's start from a clean sheet.

He's saying Welsh immigrants originally spoke Welsh both at home (in Wales) and in the new land (in America)

Due to governmental policies, English became the dominant working language, thus Welsh immigrants descendants spoke English and not Welsh anymore

II.

If, Chinese immigrants originally spoke Chinese dialects at home (in China) and in the new land (in Singapore)

Due to governmental policies, English became the dominant working language, thus Chinese immigrants descendants may follow the Welsh pattern and speaks English and not Chinese dialects anymore

we sacrifice SG

. . .. he fails to see the importance of learning more languages . . .. . for own benefits.

OR . . . could he be . . . .. . just attacking Chinese language . . . only ..

mystiv SG

I'm amazed that an argument on why we shouldn't speak Mandarin in Singapore has degenerated into it being a language of lower IQ as one of the reasons.

yes yes, that totally takes the cake for the most awesome reply so far

RoyFang SG

I am an English speaking Chinese Singaporean. I have been reading this forum and talking to many Singaporeans (duh) and I just can't understand why some Singaporeans of Chinese ancestry say things such as "if you can't speak Chinese, you have lost your roots", "English is not our language" etc.

Let me make some points clear.

1. I am Singaporean, not Chinese. I have never been to China. My culture is Singaporean not Chinese. Anyone who has been to China will know Singapore culture and Chinese culture are like night and day, totally different. Our laws, medical system, social conventions, dressing, thinking, schools, transport, everything are TOTALLY DIFFERENT.

I would call myself a Singaporean Chinese (Chinese Singaporean seems to imply something else in today Singapore...)

So you take offence at people calling you Chinese because you're ethnically Chinese?

Did you confused the term Chinese (ethnicity) & Chinese (citizens of PRC)?

2. I, like all Singaporeans, grew up in school with English as our first language. I only use English at work and at home, since Singapore is runs on English. Our laws, newspapers and everything else are all in English.

I don't understand why under such an environment, some people still reject the use of English and speak Mandarin.

Our newspapers and everything else aren't all in English, for we have Chinese, Malay and Tamil newspapers as well. Open your eyes and check out the news stand in convenience stores.

3. English IS Singapore's language. Some Singaporeans reject English as a "foreign language", the language of the British and Americans etc and say that as "Chinese" we should speak Mandarin, our ancestral language, our "roots". This is just a very bigoted view which is based on ignorance.

English is Singaporeans' first language. We have four official languages or do you not know that?

If we subscribe to this "foreign language" argument, every English speaking country in the world except English would be speaking a "foreign language" and have lost their ancestral "roots"!

If we follow this argument, in Britain, the Welsh should speak Welsh. Scottish should speak Scots, those at Cornwal should speak Cornish. Those in Northern Ireland should speak Irish.

Ireland should speak Gaelic or Irish, not English, a "foreign" language from England.

Americans, who are mostly of Irish, Germans, Polish descent would all be speaking a "foreign language". After all, they should speak German, Polish or Irish language, not English! And African Americans should be speaking Afrikaans?

So a Scottish American speaking Scottish Gaelic in America have lost their ancestral "roots"? What kind of bloody logic is that?

Well, I believe they do speak their mother tongues among themselves. English is the bridge to bring these people of different languages together but it doesn't mean the elimination of one's mother tongue.

Btw Afrikaans is not an language native to Africa.

English is no more a foreign language to Singaporeans than it is to the Americans, Canadians and 80% of British people.

If Singaporean Chinese should speak Mandarin, then German Americans should all speak German, Irish Americans, Irish, African Americans, Afrikaans etc.. But they like Singaporeans, are not German/Irish/African, the link has long been cut, they are Americans, they speak American English.

As I said above they bloody hell do speak their mother tongues among themselves.

4. I think Singaporeans should be clear that they are Singaporeans not Chinese citizens. Just like African Americans are Americans not Africans. German Americans are Americans not Germans...so on and so forth.

And we bloody do!

I say we speak Standard Singapore English proudly with our Singaporean accent. (Mild) Singlish is fun as well, no it is not "bad English" because if you compare it with some British dialects such as "Geordie" or "Scottish English" or even "Welsh English", it is actually easier to understand.

If a foreigner does not understand my accent or comment that I sound weird, I would tell him he is the one who sounds weird! This is Singapore and this is our accents. If you can't speak with a Singaporean accent, then of course we can't understand you well, don't compain.

I applaud you.

5. Mandarin is not even my ancestral language if you want to be anal about it. Mandarin is the dialect of Beijing and my forefathers were probably from Fujian, though I have some Malay blood in me as well.

Then speak Hokkien or Teochew or one of the other dialects of Fujian that you belong to. And maybe add Malay to your list along the way.

Mandarin like English is a bridge to bring Chinese of different dialects together.

If you can't speak English in Singapore, I suggest you hang your head in shame, for you have truly "lost your roots".

If one can't speak English & his/her mother tongue, then he/she have truly lost his/her roots.

TTFU SG

Let's start from a clean sheet.

He's saying Welsh immigrants originally spoke Welsh both at home (in Wales) and in the new land (in America)

Due to governmental policies, English became the dominant working language, thus Welsh immigrants descendants spoke English and not Welsh anymore

II.

If, Chinese immigrants originally spoke Chinese dialects at home (in China) and in the new land (in Singapore)

Due to governmental policies, English became the dominant working language, thus Chinese immigrants descendants may follow the Welsh pattern and speaks English and not Chinese dialects anymore

I see no arguement in this. Yes they do. Its their choice. But i see no reason to QQ about native mother toungue/chinese even if they are not the leading language.

Straightstick SG

Let me make some points clear.

I don't understand why under such an environment, some people still reject the use of English and speak Mandarin.

If we subscribe to this "foreign language" argument, every English speaking country in the world except English would be speaking a "foreign language" and have lost their ancestral "roots"!

If we follow this argument, in Britain, the Welsh should speak Welsh. Scottish should speak Scots, those at Cornwal should speak Cornish. Those in Northern Ireland should speak Irish.

Ireland should speak Gaelic or Irish, not English, a "foreign" language from England.

English is no more a foreign language to Singaporeans than it is to the Americans, Canadians and 80% of British people.

6. Mandarin is useful? If you are dealing with China, yes. But lets not forget that 55 countries worldwide and almost all supranational organs use English.

The biggest economy in the world, America, uses English. Europeans all speak English as their second language these days. Canadaians, Australians, etc. And without English, you cannot find a good job in Singapore.

7. Lets not forget my "forefathers" and probably yours ran away from China and took up Singapore citizenship for a reason. He didn't want to be a Chinese citizen.

So don't tell me to speak Mandarin (a beijing dialect) in Singapore (an English society).

If you can't speak English in Singapore, I suggest you hang your head in shame, for you have truly "lost your roots".

don't be a banana okay? bleach yourself to complete the transformation =D

RoyFang SG

He's saying Welsh immigrants originally spoke Welsh both at home (in Wales) and in the new land (in America)

Due to governmental policies, English became the dominant working language, thus Welsh immigrants descendants spoke English and not Welsh anymore

Is that an assumption or did you do an survey on Welsh immigrants descendants?

Fatum SG

actually, I remember reading some, I think it was german or british research, that mandarin is more demanding cognitively than other languages, cos the script is partially pictographic in nature, and there is much more implied context which has to be decoded and interpreted on the fly.

ah hah ! ..... googled it ! ...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3025796.stm

BanguIzai SG

Is that an assumption or did you do an survey on Welsh immigrants descendants?

read your linguistic journals

available in NUS library and National Library Reference section

Ranson SG

no leh

what i saw was

hes practically rejecting the language,

will the people he spoke of

the imaginary 90%, reject whatever languages that were spoken before?

English is the ancestral language of England alone. That means all other native English speakers today who are of non English ancestry are speaking a "foreign language" . In the United Kingdom, Scotland, Wales, Cornwall and Northern Ireland all have their own "ancestor languages" but now are almost all dead. They all speak English.

In fact, scotland, wales etc were all colonised by England many centuries ago as well, that is why they speak English today.

Lets look at America, an English speaking country. According to their govt census in 2000, only 8.7% have English ancestry. So basically over 90% of their country are non English and are speaking a "foreign language" that their ancestors did not speak.

Going by the "ancestor language" argument German Americans (15%) should speak German, Irish(10.8%) should speak Irish etc.

http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/QTTable?_bm=y&-geo_id=01000US&-qr_name=DEC_2000_SF3_U_QTP13&-ds_name=DEC_2000_SF3_U&-_lang=en&-_sse=on

Have they all betrayed their roots then? This applies to ALL English speaking countries today. About 90% of all native English speakers today are speaking a different language from their ancestors. This is a fact.

We haven't got round to the second language English speakers yet.

Originally posted by BanguIzai:

In Wales, only about 20% of the people can speak Welsh fluently now

People usually speak Wales English now, which is a variety of English

Ha ha exactly. More like only 10% of Welsh speak Welsh these days. Most only speak English.

BanguIzai SG

English is the language of England alone. That means all other native English speakers today who are of non English ancestry are speaking a "foreign language" . In the United Kingdom, Scotland, Wales, Cornwall and Northern Ireland all have their own "ancestor languages" but now are almost all dead. They all speak English.

Going by the "ancestor language" argument German Americans (15%) should speak German, Irish(10.8%) should speak Irish etc.

http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/QTTable?_bm=y&-geo_id=01000US&-qr_name=DEC_2000_SF3_U_QTP13&-ds_name=DEC_2000_SF3_U&-_lang=en&-_sse=on

We haven't got round to the second language English speakers yet.

Originally posted by BanguIzai:

In Wales, only about 20% of the people can speak Welsh fluently now

People usually speak Wales English now, which is a variety of English

Ha ha exactly. More like only 10% of Welsh speak Welsh these days. Most only speak English.

Yes you are right

I can even supply more examples from the following countries and expound on them if I have the time:

India

Turkey

Japan

and many others

I hope many of the posters here can have some time to read more linguistic journals

eagle SG

Let's start from a clean sheet.

He's saying Welsh immigrants originally spoke Welsh both at home (in Wales) and in the new land (in America)

Due to governmental policies, English became the dominant working language, thus Welsh immigrants descendants spoke English and not Welsh anymore

II.

If, Chinese immigrants originally spoke Chinese dialects at home (in China) and in the new land (in Singapore)

Due to governmental policies, English became the dominant working language, thus Chinese immigrants descendants may follow the Welsh pattern and speaks English and not Chinese dialects anymore

Let's see. If it's due to governmental policies, then in Singapore, we should continue to speak Mandarin. Mother tongue is still widely tested in Singapore; it's still used as entry criteria at PSLE into Sec Sch.

Let's include day to day activities as well. English may be the dominant working language, but being >70% Chinese population, Mandarin is the dominant heartland language, widely used in speech all over Singapore.

Finally, using the Welsh as an example isn't a reason on not speaking Mandarin at all. There are just too many differences in the comparison that has not been considered.

TTFU SG

In fact, scotland, wales etc were all colonised by England many centuries ago as well, that is why they speak English today.

Going by the "ancestor language" argument German Americans (15%) should speak German, Irish(10.8%) should speak Irish etc.

http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/QTTable?_bm=y&-geo_id=01000US&-qr_name=DEC_2000_SF3_U_QTP13&-ds_name=DEC_2000_SF3_U&-_lang=en&-_sse=on

We haven't got round to the second language English speakers yet.

Ha ha exactly. More like only 10% of Welsh speak Welsh these days. Most only speak English.

Let me summarise.

Yes english is most frquently used, i must asslick english language in whatever toungue action i can get. Chinese and all languages suck. Boo Boo BOOO

QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ

QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ

BanguIzai SG

Finally, using the Welsh as an example isn't a reason on not speaking Mandarin at all. There are just too many differences in the comparison that has not been considered.

Of course I fully understand from which direction both of you come from.

That's why there is no agreement.

TS is coming from a logical conclusion (I oppose your saying that it is logical fallacy)

while

You are coming from a conclusion based on observation more to policies delineated by the government and current situations

BanguIzai SG

Finally, using the Welsh as an example isn't a reason on not speaking Mandarin at all. There are just too many differences in the comparison that has not been considered.

if we can pause for a while to think...

why in the first place our government chose Mandarin to be the connecting language among Chinese immigrants in Singapore?

that, in itself, doesn't need to be Mandarin right? that means, it is Mandarin, is not intrinsic by nature, but is motivated more by policies and government

littlemissbonkers SG

if we can pause for a while to think...

why in the first place our government chose Mandarin to be the connecting language among Chinese immigrants in Singapore?

that, in itself, doesn't need to be Mandarin right? that means, it is Mandarin, is not intrinsic by nature, but is motivated more by policies and government

Aiyo Bangulzai you think so much for wat

Be careful ah my flamethrower got no eyes hor

eagle SG

Of course I fully understand from which direction both of you come from.

That's why there is no agreement.

TS is coming from a logical conclusion (I oppose your saying that it is logical fallacy)

while

You are coming from a conclusion based on observation more to policies delineated by the government and current situations

His is not a logical conclusion.

Just because someone or some other culture or race did it (supposing it is true), doesn't mean we should do it (refuse to speak Mandarin).

There's no logic whatsoever in his points, other than the fact that it is his choice to refuse.

Finally, I fail to see how his subtle conclusion that speaking Mandarin will lower his IQ is logical as well.

TTFU SG

I dont think you understand what the Ts is meaning. Short and simple he means english is more widely used, so i speak english and QQ chinese because i dont even know how to write and speak, i dont have the power to even learn 2 language.

ChoCoChips SG

In fact, scotland, wales etc were all colonised by England many centuries ago as well, that is why they speak English today.

Going by the "ancestor language" argument German Americans (15%) should speak German, Irish(10.8%) should speak Irish etc.

http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/QTTable?_bm=y&-geo_id=01000US&-qr_name=DEC_2000_SF3_U_QTP13&-ds_name=DEC_2000_SF3_U&-_lang=en&-_sse=on

We haven't got round to the second language English speakers yet.

Ha ha exactly. More like only 10% of Welsh speak Welsh these days. Most only speak English.

i didnt say they "betrayed their roots"?

and i suppose them dont go

dont speak <insert language here> leh, lowers my iq la.

if u realised

my problem with ur post is

it reeked of anglophilia

basically wad i understood from ur post is

oni english is da bomb,

the rest is BS!

cuz if they werent, sg will be using them in everything.

eagle SG

if we can pause for a while to think...

why in the first place our government chose Mandarin to be the connecting language among Chinese immigrants in Singapore?

that, in itself, doesn't need to be Mandarin right? that means, it is Mandarin, is not intrinsic by nature, but is motivated more by policies and government

Err........

If you are talking about Chinese immigrants, how can Mandarin not be intrinsic then?

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