I, a Singaporean Chinese refuse to speak Mandarin

last SG · 2010-05-04T01:32:51+00:00

Are you sure?He obviously has an agenda.Just look at his other threads.Another elitist asshole in the making.i try not to form an impression from the many t...

BanguIzai SG

Err........

If you are talking about Chinese immigrants, how can Mandarin not be intrinsic then?

we ask ourselves, why Mandarin and not some other dialects?

Mandarin itself is considered a dialect like any other dialect by linguists

That's why I say, depends on where you stand and look at the issue

TTFU SG

if we can pause for a while to think...

why in the first place our government chose Mandarin to be the connecting language among Chinese immigrants in Singapore?

that, in itself, doesn't need to be Mandarin right? that means, it is Mandarin, is not intrinsic by nature, but is motivated more by policies and government

Why is mandrain connecting language among Chinese immigrants in Singapore ? Simply because speaking chinese is more confortable to them. I ofc try to speak japan to japanese. Same reason. And as for politics, if there is a debate on that. Yes it influences. But i see no reason saying it here, simply because Ts words are that simple.

BanguIzai SG

Err........

If you are talking about Chinese immigrants, how can Mandarin not be intrinsic then?

Ethnic Classifications / Racial Classifications / Linguistic Classifications can be manipulated by policies and governments, thus are "error prone" / "can be manipulated"

one of my past post regarding objectivity to this issue:

http://sgforums.com/forums/8/topics/348263?page=2#post_8846699

Fatum SG

His is not a logical conclusion.

Just because someone or some other culture or race did it (supposing it is true), doesn't mean we should do it (refuse to speak Mandarin).

There's no logic whatsoever in his points, other than the fact that it is his choice to refuse.

Finally, I fail to see how his subtle conclusion that speaking Mandarin will lower his IQ is logical as well.

well, from the link I dug up ..... perhaps for him, it's a case of cognitive deficiency, really ? ....

after all ... to quote from the link ...

"Mandarin is a notoriously difficult language to learn"

BanguIzai SG

Speaking Mandarin is not comfortable to the 1st generation IMHO.

It is a language which is imposed on the Cantonese, Hokkien, Teochew, etc. native speakers for many reasons (economical, political)

eagle SG

we ask ourselves, why Mandarin and not some other dialects?

Mandarin itself is considered a dialect like any other dialect by linguists

That's why I say, depends on where you stand and look at the issue

Well, Mandarin is the working language, or main language, in China since the era of Qin. It was the language used to unite China.

Of all dialects, that would be the best choice since Chinese immigrants can come from any part of China.

TTFU SG

Speaking Mandarin is not comfortable to the 1st generation IMHO.

It is a language which is imposed on the Cantonese, Hokkien, Teochew, etc. native speakers for many reasons (economical, political)

Yes, they wanted a common language, just like english is common to the US. But is there a need to go into all this ?

BanguIzai SG

Yes, they wanted a common language, just like english is common to the US. But is there a need to go into all this ?

Because when you look at all the discussions above, everyone interpreted the terms (Chinese, National Language, Dialects) hapzardly according each own's understanding

That's why debate is endless

eagle SG

Ethnic Classifications / Racial Classifications / Linguistic Classifications can be manipulated by policies and governments, thus are "error prone" / "can be manipulated"

one of my past post regarding objectivity to this issue:

http://sgforums.com/forums/8/topics/348263?page=2#post_8846699

I understand your viewpoint, but it's not linked to why the refusal to speak Mandarin.

Using the same argument, speaking English is also "error prone" / "can be manipulated".

My main point is still against TS's subtle hint on Mandarin as a language of lower IQ, and that English is the way to go, if you realised.

BanguIzai SG

Well, Mandarin is the working language, or main language, in China since the era of Qin. It was the language used to unite China.

Of all dialects, that would be the best choice since Chinese immigrants can come from any part of China.

In the era of Qin, there was more than one dialect in the area of Qin. Qin dynasty's reputation is only to unite the written characters.

No doubt there was standard language in China all along, but it was never standardized and it is never always the Northern Dialect

For your info, there was no Mandarin as Official Language in China only until Communist Era. Mandarin itself is based on the Beijing vernacular dialect which was only elevated to the status of National Language by the government.

TTFU SG

Because when you look at all the discussions above, everyone interpreted the terms (Chinese, National Language, Dialects) hapzardly according each own's understanding

That's why debate is endless

Utimately its just a language for communication. Reason for dialect cause its user lesser, or the government wanted to create a common language among us and the world therefore english (politics involved) . But beware Ts, the day when i dominate the world is the day i will make you speak TTFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU. That is the day when you start to QQ about english and start to asslick about TTFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU.

BanguIzai SG

I understand your viewpoint, but it's not linked to why the refusal to speak Mandarin.

Using the same argument, speaking English is also "error prone" / "can be manipulated".

My main point is still against TS's subtle hint on Mandarin as a language of lower IQ, and that English is the way to go, if you realised.

I agree with TS is using objective data to justify his subjective interest, which is still acceptable.

eagle SG

In the era of Qin, there was more than one dialect in the area of Qin. Qin dynasty's reputation is only to unite the written characters.

No doubt there was standard language in China all along, but it was never standardized and it is never always the Northern Dialect

Thanks for the clarification.

That still mean it's still the national language, which would explain its choice as logical. It also explains the written characters learned here. As for the other dialects, there isn't any law barring others from speaking it too.

BanguIzai SG

Utimately its just a language for communication. Reason for dialect cause its user lesser, or the government wanted to create a common language among us and the world therefore english. But beware Ts, the day when i dominate the world is the day i will make you speak TTFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU. That is the day when you start to QQ about english and start to asslick about TTFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU.

Ya lar, so at the end, no right no wrong

But I will always say, doesn't necessary mean what government say, is right

Ranson SG

don't be a banana okay? bleach yourself to complete the transformation =D

Ha ha you can call me whatever you want. I am no more "Banana" than President Obama (of African Kenyan ancestry), or the 90% of Americans with no English ancestry or the leaders of Singapore, many of whom cannot speak Mandarin well.

I was educated in English and working in Singapore, I haven't written a word of Chinese for over a decade after leaving school. I speak with a Singaporean accent. In fact, I don't really enjoy Chinese culture much, which is why I tend to lean towards speaking English.

I pity those who lack self esteem and feel so insecure about using English that they find whatever means to justify their ignorance from deliberately speaking Singlish to muffling their voice etc despite them being educated in English.

You will be wiping my tables while I will be shaking my legs sitting in my chair. And you can bleach yourself since you like it so much ha ha, I am happy with who I am.

Once again i will say, nobody gives a crap about what you speak. True america is leading. But that does not mean forever. I enjoy english as a language just as i enjoy speaking chinese, hokkien and planning to learn jap.

America is leading by a mile. Its economy is 15 trillion. China in number 2 is only 5 trillion I think.

You throw in the economies of 55 English speaking countries, and of course Singapore, you will see the utility of English.

Plus all the EU countries and even ASEAN uses English.

Even in China, the Chinese are paying 20000 yuan just to take part time English courses from Singaporeans and British alike.

A perfect Beijing accented Chinese fresh grad in Shanghai makes 1500-2000 yuan.

A Singapore/British fresh grad who chooses to teach English in one of many English schools in Shanghai makes 7000-10000 yuan. In fact, they prefer you not to speak Mandarin at all so their students wont be tempted to use Mandarin with you.

Mandarin only spoken in 3 countries in the world - Singapore, Taiwan and China.

And as you can see, even in Taiwan and China, people who are fluent in English easily earn more, muc more.

eagle SG

I agree with TS is using objective data to justify his subjective interest, which is still acceptable.

That basically sums it up :)

BanguIzai SG

Thanks for the clarification.

Ok.

Devil7030 SG

You will be wiping my tables while I will be shaking my legs sitting in my chair. And you can bleach yourself since you like it so much ha ha, I am happy with who I am.

America is leading by a mile. Its economy is 15 trillion. China in number 2 is only 5 trillion I think.

You throw in the economies of 55 English speaking countries, and of course Singapore, you will see the utility of English.

Plus all the EU countries and even ASEAN uses English.

Even in China, the Chinese are paying 20000 yuan just to take part time English courses from Singaporeans and British alike.

A perfect Beijing accented Chinese fresh grad in Shanghai makes 1500-2000 yuan.

Mandarin only spoken in 3 countries in the world - Singapore, Taiwan and China.

And as you can see, even in Taiwan and China, people who are fluent in English easily earn more, muc more.

TS, since you refuse and cannot speak mandarin at all, how do you communicate with those people who can only speak mandarin huh ? Use body and sign language a lot huh ?

Ranson SG

His is not a logical conclusion.

Just because someone or some other culture or race did it (supposing it is true), doesn't mean we should do it (refuse to speak Mandarin).

There's no logic whatsoever in his points, other than the fact that it is his choice to refuse.

Finally, I fail to see how his subtle conclusion that speaking Mandarin will lower his IQ is logical as well.

It is true. Most NATIVE English speakers are not of English ancestry. They are of German, African, Asian, Polish, Irish etc.

Even Barrack Obama is of African Kenyan ancestry and therefore should speak Kenyan? Extrapolate to most of our Singaporean leaders, are they not Singaporean enough for you?

I never said speaking Mandarin will lower my IQ, read my original post. I said you should speak to your friends in whatever language and leave me out of it, because speaking to you will lower my IQ. Why? Isn't it obvious?

If you have no interest in Chinese culture or working in China, why should a Singaporean speak Mandarin, I personally don't see a need to. If you have a keen interest, yes of course go ahead.

Err........

If you are talking about Chinese immigrants, how can Mandarin not be intrinsic then?

You said it yourself, "immigrants". Meaning they have REJECTED their original citizenship, moved away to a foreign land, took up ANOTHER CITIZENSHIP and are now in a seperate SOVEREIGN country with its own culture and language.

In fact, I think my grand father disliked China so much he would hated for me to go back to China. He was starved and had a terribly hard life there. No one would care if he died in China , just 1/1.3 billion.

Singapore gave him hope. He learnt basic English, started a coffeeshop in Singapore and made good in Singapore. Singapore gave him dignity.

In Singapore, there are no famines. No war. No strife. No corruption.

I am 3 generations away from him. Will China come to Singapore's aid if it was attacked? I don't know. Maybe since we have good ties, maybe not.

Does ASEAN fear the military poweress of China? Definitely. Open your eyes and you will see an arms race in ASEAN and countries around China as countries spend more on their military.

They are wary of China's communistic dictatorship.

I am sure Australia, New Zealand, Malaysia will show some support to Singapore under the Five Powers Agreement. Our close friends Brunei, USA, will probably do something as well.

Ranson SG

TS, since you refuse and cannot speak mandarin at all, how do you communicate with those people who can only speak mandarin huh ? Use body and sign language a lot huh ?

How does Lee Kuan Yew or Lee Yui Tuck communicate ? They both can't speak much Chinese. I think many of our leaders do not speak fluent Mandarin.

How does 1/4 of Singapore's populace communicate? Since 1/4 of us are Indians and Malays/ Eurasians.

How do Philippino maids, Australian expats, Indian teachers, Arab money changers and South Korean students communicate?

Please use your brain.

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