SG: sianz in a dot

Clivebenss SG

Best is learn from the original place. The character "dragon" in hokkien has 3 ways of pronunciation. Oh gosh!

I have heard the original hokkien from a hokkien from China, beautiful. Very clear and understandable. He is expert in the hokkien and spoke of some mistakes people made

It all depends much on the northern influence as well as the variations from the different groups in Fujian.

hasene SG

It all depends much on the northern influence as well as the variations from the different groups in Fujian.

There are different types of hokkien. ay merng, tung wa, nam wa, ang kuay, jiao wan (is this hokkien?), confusing.

Clivebenss SG

There are different types of hokkien. ay merng, tung wa, nam wa, ang kuay, jiao wan (is this hokkien?), confusing.

there are more but varying slight from the few main groups (I think Bangulzai know more) like Amoy, Chiangchew, Chuanchew and Chiao An.

hasene SG

there are more but varying slight from the few main groups (I think Bangulzai know more) like Amoy, Chiangchew, Chuanchew and Chiao An.

Do the chiangchew, Chuanchew and Chiao An speak different types of hokkien?

okie, i shall cc this post to Bangulzai.

cc: Bangulzai

Clivebenss SG

Do the chiangchew, Chuanchew and Chiao An speak different types of hokkien?

The Penang Malaysians are Chiangchew type, Chuanchew more in Philippines and Chiao An less common but markly different in tones, harder to understand.

hasene SG

The Penang Malaysians are Chiangchew type, Chuanchew more in Philippines and Chiao An less common but markly different in tones, harder to understand.

Now I know what is Chiangchew\ hokkien. Khaw boon wan speaks that.

Clivebenss SG

Now I know what is Chiangchew\ hokkien. Khaw boon wan speaks that.

the lian he pang Hokkien.

hasene SG

the lian he pang Hokkien.

What is this?

Frankly, I sometimes cannot stand the type of hokkien Taiwanese speak. I find the accent of ang kuay, nam wa, jiao wa rather not very nice.

Some hokkiens especially the Taiwanese and the nam wa called one day : zit kang. OMG! I cannot accept it, somemore with that kind of accent.

Clivebenss SG

What is this?

Frankly, I sometimes cannot stand the type of hokkien Taiwanese speak. I find the accent of ang kuay, nam wa, jiao wa rather not very nice.

Some hokkiens especially the Taiwanese and the nam wa called one day : zit kang. OMG! I cannot accept it, somemore with that kind of accent.

"lian he pang" = Malaysia.

hasene SG

"lian he pang" = Malaysia.

hasene SG

The Taiwanese says "choot cay" for making mistake. May be it is just colloquial.

In singapore, we say "zho salah" "zho cho"

BanguIzai SG

Best is learn from the original place. The character "dragon" in hokkien has 3 ways of pronunciation. Oh gosh!

I have heard the original hokkien from a hokkien from China, beautiful. Very clear and understandable. He is expert in the hokkien and spoke of some mistakes people made

hi hasene

龍 in Hokkien has only 2 ways of pronunciation:

The vernacular: liŋ24 or liəŋ24 or leŋ24

The literary: liɔŋ24

The 3 types under "the vernacular" are regional variations that's all, so is considered one type

hasene SG

hi hasene

龍 in Hokkien has only 2 ways of pronunciation:

The vernacular: liŋ24 or liəŋ24 or leŋ24

The literary: liɔŋ24

The 3 types under "the vernacular" are regional variations that's all, so is considered one type

VERy chim, I don't understand. I know the 3 pronunciation: long, leong , leng.

Thanks for your explanation

BanguIzai SG

VERy chim, I don't understand. I know the 3 pronunciation: long, leong , leng.

Thanks for your explanation

No worries. To be as accurate as possible, I chose to represent the sounds of Hokkien in the International Phonetic Alphabet.

There isn't a long pronunciation. If there is as you heard, it should be a corruption or influence from external sources and should not be treated as authentic Hokkien.

BanguIzai SG

Do the chiangchew, Chuanchew and Chiao An speak different types of hokkien?

okie, i shall cc this post to Bangulzai.

cc: Bangulzai

hi hasene

Clivebenss has already answer your question, and i just take off from there to elaborate that's all

Amoy Variety: 廈門，同安

ChiangChew Variety: 漳州，龍海，龍巖，長泰，華安，南靖，平和，漳浦，雲霄，東山

ChuanChew Variety: 泉州，晉江，石獅，南安，安溪，惠安，永春，德化，金門

ChiaoAn Variety: 詔安

hasene SG

No worries. To be as accurate as possible, I chose to represent the sounds of Hokkien in the International Phonetic Alphabet.

There isn't a long pronunciation. If there is as you heard, it should be a corruption or influence from external sources and should not be treated as authentic Hokkien.

That is the problem we have in Singapore. In Singapore, Hokkien is mixed with other language like Malay and other dialects/Mandarin. I suppose the "long" is Mandarin.

BanguIzai SG

The Penang Malaysians are Chiangchew type, Chuanchew more in Philippines and Chiao An less common but markly different in tones, harder to understand.

Yes, Clivebenss, you are spot on, great experience that you have!

Penang Malaysians overlooking Medan on the other shore, together speaks the ChiangChew type

For Philippines Hokkien, I will list out the tones for your purview, as its tones sounds pretty much ChuanChew (more specifically ChinKang) variety

陰平 33 陽平 24 陰上 55 陽上 (not tested by me yet)
陰去 41 陽去 41 陰入 5 陽入 24

Why do I say more specifically it's similar to the ChinKang type of ChuanChew Hokkien is because of the absence of "ə" and "ɯ" vowels in Philippines Hokkien whereas those are commonly found in other ChuanChew variety of Hokkien

Singapore Hokkien is a hybrid of Amoy and ChuanChew varieties, with Amoy contributing to the tonal contours and tonal variety while ChuanChew contributing to the rime inventory

Taiwanese Hokkien was originally the Amoy variety in the 60's-70's into the ChiangChew variety after the 80's due to the original Amoy city dwelling inhabitants staying in Taipei giving up their Hokkien in favour of Mandarin and the prevalence of countryside ChiangChew speakers in South-Central Taiwan to the extent of influencing the mixed ChiangChew & ChuanChew areas in the South, becoming the current variety of Taiwanese Hokkien

Clivebenss SG

Yes, Clivebenss, you are spot on, great experience that you have!

Penang Malaysians overlooking Medan on the other shore, together speaks the ChiangChew type

For Philippines Hokkien, I will list out the tones for your purview, as its tones sounds pretty much ChuanChew (more specifically ChinKang) variety

陰平 33 陽平 24 陰上 55 陽上 (not tested by me yet)
陰去 41 陽去 41 陰入 5 陽入 24

Singapore Hokkien is a hybrid of Amoy and ChuanChew varieties, with Amoy contributing to the tonal contours and tonal variety while ChuanChew contributing to the rime inventory

Yes, I notice the dilution of Amoy Hokkien in Taipei from my younger relatives. They hardly can speak good Amoy like their parents.

In Indonesia, Hokkien almost extinct except in Medan and some of the Riau which is now almost speak like Teochew mixed in apart from Bahasa.

BanguIzai SG

What is this?

Frankly, I sometimes cannot stand the type of hokkien Taiwanese speak. I find the accent of ang kuay, nam wa, jiao wa rather not very nice.

Some hokkiens especially the Taiwanese and the nam wa called one day : zit kang. OMG! I cannot accept it, somemore with that kind of accent.

hi hasene

For your information, "One Day" which is called "Tsit Kang" in Hokkien and the other languages related to Hokkien, is a common phenomenon.

Why do I say so?

In those divergent dialects in Fujian province you can find "蜀工" all over the place:

In Jian'Ou Dialect 建甌方言 there are proverbs using "xx工":

新開屎坑三工興 seiŋ khyɛ si khaŋ saŋ kɔŋ xeiŋ
三工：三天

白露秋分，一工凊似一工 pa su tshiu xɔŋ, tsi kɔŋ tsheiŋ su tsi kɔŋ
一工：一天

立春七工樹發芽，驚蟄七工樹箬擠 li tshœyŋ tshi kɔŋ tshiu puɛ ŋa, keiŋ ti tshi kɔŋ tshiu niɔ tsa
七工：七天

雨水前響雷，四十九工天晴 xy sy tshiŋ xiɔŋ so, si si kiu kɔŋ thiŋ tsaŋ
四十九工：四十九天

In Fuzhou Dictionary 福州方言詞典：

【工】køyŋ 一晝夜二十四小時的時間，有時專指白天：▲我去兩工會轉來 ▲工工都食肉，故講無菜食

In Hokkien Dictionary 普通話閩南方言常用詞典：

【工】kaŋ 一個工人一個勞動日的工作：▲即項工程需要三十工

閩南方言大詞典：

【工】kaŋ 一整天的時間，多數只指白天：▲一月日做幾工？ ▲伊一個月做25工。

【工】kaŋ 量詞，通常表示一個工作日：▲做一工歇兩工。

Even in Teochew you can find "蜀工" meaning One Day:

http://www.ispeakmin.com/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=5412

【词】蜀工
【读音】che̍k-kang
【词义】一旦
【近义词】有工（ŭ-kang）

【例句】
Che̍k-kang lâi tsŭ khiă-khí ke --lân-kúi-jît li.
蜀工来就企起加零几日而。| 既然来了就多住几天。

闽南、闽东（福安）似乎都有把一天叫一工的说法。

刘尧咨《说潮州话》中记载的府城话说法有：

一工：一天。

个工：一个劳动力或劳动日。（按此说法揭阳亦有，但似乎偏向于指劳动力）

逐工（tâk-kang）：每天，每个劳动日。如“逐工送来”。刘注明是“借闽”，意为来自闽南语。

BanguIzai SG

Yes, I notice the dilution of Amoy Hokkien in Taipei from my younger relatives. They hardly can speak good Amoy like their parents.

In Indonesia, Hokkien almost extinct except in Medan and some of the Riau which is now almost speak like Teochew mixed in apart from Bahasa.

Ya, I met before one Chinese Hokkien from Makassar, oso dunno Hokkien. Teochew is much better preserved, 2 Teochew from Batam and 1 Teochew from Pontianak, all can speak Teochew well. The Hakka from Aceh and another Hakka from Jakarta, all oso dunno Hakka. Oni used to know one Hakka from Jakarta who understands and speaks some Hakka.

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