Angry with SIM =(

last SG · 2008-06-06T16:33:51+00:00

aiyah .. too much lah guysif look at commercial contract lawThe contractual term and condition is stated and by right and fact the school does not state in i...

nightsky87 SG

It's really surprising that after so long, that you still do not realise that SIM in the business of providing a degree, pure and simple, nothing more and nothing less. Maybe if you realise that you will not be so bothered about the refreshments issue. The school's main objective is to make money, and not to ensure that you have a good degree so that you have a good future ahead. It's a business, just like any other business such as Singtel, if one day they increase their talktime charges or sms charges, are they accountable to you, the consumer?

You knew right from the start that SIM's only concern is to fulfill that contract, and that is the provison of Tution (Point 1.8 Payment of Course Fees in your contract) for the purpose of obtaining the Course (Point 1.1 Name of Course) from the Institution (Point 1.5 Organisation Awarding/Conferring Qualifications). Providing refreshments is not an integral part of your degree, there was never a proper inclusion of refreshments in any form of binding agreement.

dumbdumb! SG

was this statement

"Providing refreshments is not an integral part of your degree, there was never a proper inclusion of refreshments in any form binding agreement."

written in black and white?

look, the point isn't about whether they provide refreshment or not, of course i'm not happy they discontinued it, who in their right mind would mind having refreshment?

the point is that they didn't give a reason for it (and you agreed that there's nothing wrong with wanting to know)

and you haven't explained why what i said was flawed logically.

you can't just wave a paper and say just because it's not on the paper.

so just because it's not written on paper, means i've got no right, or need to know?

if i don't have the right to know, then say i don't have a right to know! it's pointless telling me the rules of contract, i didn't take law.

if it's not true that i don't have the right to know, then i want to know. as do some of the other students.

bryanw SG

dumbdumb, sim one year how many sems if one sem is 2mths? and every sem study 2modules?

nightsky87 SG

the school IS accountable to the students, because the students invested money in them.

that's what a stakeholder is. anyone who has an invested interest in something, may it be the student, the workers there, or the management team.

if there is no need for accountability, the school could just happily close down tomorrow without informing anyone the reason for doing so, isn't it?

just like the other uni, UNSW? they had to abandon their plans to start a few courses here due to the lack of students. and they had to explain their decision to those who have successfully enrolled.

if the school isn't accountable at all to students, they could just leave without explaining anything. which of course, is wrong.

Ok, let me explain myself with regards to this post (as well as the previous post)

The cost of the refreshments? Honestly, how expensive can mass produced confectionary bought in bulk be? I know that item by item, when you compare to bakeries and such, might be expensive, but have you ever bought items in bulk, or wholesale, and compare the markup between items bought factory/wholesale to retail? Expensive is very subjective, what I think is expensive might not be to you. But I AM right in saying that the refreshments are inexpensive, because I'm comparing the price of the brownie (as an example) bought by SIM as refreshments as compared to a similar brownie bought at a bakery outside, confirm will be cheaper one right? Logically correct, right?

And the point about schools closing down all of a sudden without any notice.. All I can say is... Never hear before ah? lol.

And once again you bring in UNSW. UNSW is a University. They have their reputation to protect. SIM is NOT a University per se in that sense as compared to UNSW. If tomorrow SIM GE were to close down, I can safely tell you, they have NOTHING to lose because the degree is issued (in this case, not UNSW, but UOL/RMIT etc).

dumbdumb! SG

dumbdumb, sim one year how many sems if one sem is 2mths? and every sem study 2modules?

the timetable schedules as 3 mths per sem, but i calculate here and there, minus all the spaces, each sem takes about 1 mth of lessons or so. so that's why i said 2 mths.

anyway, i don' find it slack la, i don't know how it is in other uni, and i've got nothing to compare against, except mdis, which i find slacker lol.

all i know is. i'm so flooded with projects. hvn finish one, next one come alr. wee. quite exciting really.

nightsky87 SG

was this statement

"Providing refreshments is not an integral part of your degree, there was never a proper inclusion of refreshments in any form binding agreement."

written in black and white?

look, the point isn't about whether they provide refreshment or not, of course i'm not happy they discontinued it, who in their right mind would mind having refreshment?

the point is that they didn't give a reason for it (and you agreed that there's nothing wrong with wanting to know)

and you haven't explained why what i said was flawed logically.

you can't just wave a paper and say just because it's not on the paper.

so just because it's not written on paper, means i've got no right, or need to know?

if i don't have the right to know, then say i don't have a right to know! it's pointless telling me the rules of contract, i didn't take law.

if it's not true that i don't have the right to know, then i want to know. as do some of the other students.

About the statement you quoted, you do know you're trying to tell me to prove something that is not written on the contract, that it is not written on the contract? You know how much sense that makes?

But your last point I concede, just because you don't have the right to know does not take away your right to WANT to know. Actually I also want to know, wtf right before I join they take away the refreshments. Zz. But I guess in that case I wont be affected because I never had the privilege to enjoy the refreshments at all. =(

dumbdumb! SG

Ok, let me explain myself with regards to this post (as well as the previous post)

And the point about schools closing down all of a sudden without any notice.. All I can say is... Never hear before ah? lol.

again, it's something we will only know if sim really close down (and i hope they don't, not for another year at least)'

then you have to be careful about how to phrase your words. "cheaper" is not the same as "inexpensive" as you suggest by saying, "Come on, how expensive you think those mass produced refreshments are, that it takes up such a big percentage of your fees?"

just because it is cheaper, doesn't mean it is not expensive. it is just it. cheaper than a more expensive pricing.

therefore, a logic flaw, when you say it shouldn't be significant enough for me to be bothered with.

bryanw SG

the refreshments must b tasty. is it like hotel style food served during coffee breaks when u hold meetings in hotels?

dumbdumb! SG

i wasn't the one who brought up the contract concept.

good. so are you done trying to put me down, or flame me or whatever?

dumbdumb! SG

the refreshments must b tasty. is it like hotel style food served during coffee breaks when u hold meetings in hotels?

it is la! i know some ppl complain, but i do like the sandwiches and chicken pies, brownies and chocolate muffins.

but actually what we want is the tea la.. to help keep us awake.

bryanw SG

it is la! i know some ppl complain, but i do like the sandwiches and chicken pies, brownies and chocolate muffins.

but actually what we want is the tea la.. to help keep us awake.

seems like a feast. maybe if the school got vending machines then can buy hot drink there no choice. or after work when going to school maybe buy some snacks along the way.

nightsky87 SG

i wasn't the one who brought up the contract concept.

good. so are you done trying to put me down, or flame me or whatever?

My intention honestly wasn't really to flame you or to escalate the refreshment issues into an all out flame war. I mean, considering we're kinda schoolmates, of course if got refreshments I won't complain.

My whole point is that we have to come to terms with reality that they don't owe us refreshments and if you want to press the issue upwards, it's a 'no contest' from a legal point of view. We may all want to know, but the school reserves the right whether to tell us the reason behind the cancellation of refreshments and there's nothing we can do about it.

dumbdumb! SG

seems like a feast. maybe if the school got vending machines then can buy hot drink there no choice. or after work when going to school maybe buy some snacks along the way.

they got vending machine.. sell can drinks. they also got canteen..

point is. they're not free.

i mean, despite all that yakking about privileges by the rest, it's so human (singaporean?) to prefer to have them free than having to pay for them. like as if they're in my shoes they won't make any noise at all (ranging from disappointment to outrage).

dumbdumb! SG

it is never about what your intention is. it's always about how other ppl interpret your words. you may not intend to flame me, but i definitey found it insulting when you started demeaning my course and timetable. especially when you tried to insinuate that i was a lousy student, that's why i cannot go into local uni, not that it isn't true, but it's still insulting.

precisely why i think the stomper put it on stomp, to make it a public matter and throw sim face, if possible, if she can't get her answer. some form of blackmail i guess. again, i mentioned all these b4.

it would be nice if you read first before trying to up my lorry.

nightsky87 SG

it is never about what your intention is. it's always about how other ppl interpret your words. you may not intend to flame me, but i definitey found it insulting when you started demeaning my course and timetable. especially when you tried to insinuate that i was a lousy student that's why i cannot go into local uni, not that it isn't true, but it's still insulting

Ok then once again I apologise without reserve if my posting has caused any intepretation of hostility and there was no intention to make personal attacks of any kind to any persons.

Heck, I have no right to comment on your results as mine sucked, and I never meant to insult your course what, just because you might not do well in certain subjects don't mean you can't be a great engineer / IT professional / course-that-you-are-taking etc what.

dumbdumb! SG

Ok then once again I apologise without reserve if my posting has caused any intepretation of hostility and there was no intention to make personal attacks of any kind to any persons.

and because i'm such a petty bastard. i can go to sleep now.

anyway, we'll know when sim decides to tell us la (with or without the pressure of stomp)

jojobeach SG

Oh .. I attended a one day SIM workshop before...and always wondered.. why they never serve lobster and Abalone.

Afterall.. I did pay a lot of money for something I already know.

laurence82 SG

omg, this thread continues

i am ashamed to be once an SIM student sia

laurence82 SG

i know, somebody gonna come up with another excuse, like i had it all, so i dont feel the pinch blah blah

after all the arguments, do you guys feel you can convince TS from reasonable POV?

i dont think so, lets give up, laugh at him for not having his dear teabreak and watch all the world not care about him

fudgester SG

i know, somebody gonna come up with another excuse, like i had it all, so i dont feel the pinch blah blah

after all the arguments, do you guys feel you can convince TS from reasonable POV?

i dont think so, lets give up, laugh at him for not having his dear teabreak and watch all the world not care about him

Honestly, I was trying to be nice to him....

But seriously, it seems that nothing can convince him that refreshments are a privilege and not a right, and unless if it's explicitly written as such in black and white, they should never be considered as the latter.

And privileges are meant to be retracted if and when the situation calls for it.

Oh well.... I'm outta here.

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