Angry with SIM =(

last SG · 2008-06-06T16:33:51+00:00

aiyah .. too much lah guysif look at commercial contract lawThe contractual term and condition is stated and by right and fact the school does not state in i...

dumbdumb! SG

i posted here because i would get people's opinion.

then it's very double standard that they'd complain about rising gst, rising cost etc. then shoot others for complaining about something else in the same context.

dumbdumb! SG

I'm not sure whether they post up online what they do with fundings etc.

oh, my tutor got explain before.

lol he was saying sim damn clever, collect fees first, before course start, after the course end, then pay the lecturers etc.

that way they won't run out of cash. tts all he said la, true or not, shrugs

nightsky87 SG

hmm i might have to disagree there.

it's a privilege, IF the cost of the refreshments are covered by sim, and we had not contributed a single cent. that way, they had every right to take back their privilege (without saying why, but for good practice, it's always good to be accountable and have a certain form of transparency, agree?).

but like someone mentioned (dunno here, or stomp), that there is no free lunch in this world, the cost of the refreshment had to be covered by someone, and it's certainly not going to be covered by sim, since it's a business, and that would be a liability.

so i dare say that the cost of the refreshment have been calculated and included as part of the school fees. so if we have contributed to the refreshment fund, we of course, deserve to know why it was discontinued. and if we contributed to the refreshment fund, and it was discontinued, means there's spare cash hanging around, and what does sim plan to do with the spare cash?

like i said. i only wanted to know, why?

and that's why, it's not wise to give flippant remarks when we don't take into consideration why they are feeling that way, when we don't suffer along with them. talk is cheap.

End of the day, why u wanna complain SIM fees high? Honestly speaking, SIM is also more or less a private school. You have the choice to enrol with them. The price they already stated very clearly.

Sure u can compare with NUS/NTU/SMU, but end of the day, hey, if those schools are much better, then why did you not enrol there in first place? Because your results suck thats why LPPL go to SIM right?

Not like SIM is the only place in Singapore u can get UOL external degree (for example), so I think seriously the fees issue is no fight because you happily pay and they happily accept. If you were so concerned about the fees in the first place, then why in the first place never study harder get better results go into other Unis?

Honestly speaking refreshment issue, like what the others say is only a privilege not a right. You go to SIM to study, and not to gorge on the refreshments. Not like the refreshment will make you get better results or what. SIM timetable already very slack, still can complain? Ever compare the timetable to the other unis?

bryanw SG

how slack is their timetable?

dumbdumb! SG

End of the day, why u wanna complain SIM fees high? Honestly speaking, SIM is also more or less a private school. You have the choice to enrol with them. The price they already stated very clearly.

hmm, did i complain that the fee is high? (not that i would mind if they made it cheaper).

did i compare with nus ntu etc etc etc?

i'm not sure you even know what i'm talking about. please don't try to misinterpret what i've been saying and put words in my mouth la.

dumbdumb! SG

how slack is their timetable?

my timetable now ah. 2 modules per sem, 2 mths?

nightsky87 SG

how slack is their timetable?

3 hours per lecture.

3-4 lectures PER WEEK (depending on module exemption)

Each day 3 slots.

Slack = 1 day 1 lecture = 4 days out of 7 go to school per week

Chiong = 1 day 2 lecture = 2 days out of 7 go to school per week

Thats all hor, nothing else. You say leh?

nightsky87 SG

hmm, did i complain that the fee is high? (not that i would mind if they made it cheaper).

did i compare with nus ntu etc etc etc?

i'm not sure you even know what i'm talking about. please don't try to misinterpret what i've been saying and put words in my mouth la.

What I see is that you're just unhappy they suddenly cancel the refreshments. SIM got so many students, if it's really that much of a big deal, then why are the others not protesting or making any noise? If the issue bugs you that much, then will it not be more effective in getting your respective student union to highlight the refreshment issues to the administration, instead of posting on sgforums?

bryanw SG

my timetable now ah. 2 modules per sem, 2 mths?

hey if one sem is 2mths like that how many sems in a year? i thought sim follow the other unis 2 sems a year

dumbdumb! SG

then it'd be nice if you type what you actually see, instead of assuming and interpreting what others say to your desired outcome.

are you sure that no one else is making noise? or are you just selective in picking the things that you want to hear or see, just like your previous post about me "comparing with other unis etc etc"?

the students are making noise, just in different intensities that's all.

some are truly angry, go post on stomp, i am annoyed with the lack of accountability, post on sgforum

i really don't see what's wrong in wanting to know the reason why they stopped it.

when you're done assuming what i'm angry about, let me know ya?

nightsky87 SG

Yeah, you didn't specifically say that the SIM fees were high, but were you not alluding to that line of reasoning in the first place? Come on, how expensive you think those mass produced refreshments are, that it takes up such a big percentage of your fees? Without providing refreshments SIM wont be suddenly earning like a lot in their bottom line.

nightsky87 SG

then it'd be nice if you type what you actually see, instead of assuming and interpreting what others say to your desired outcome.

are you sure that no one else is making noise? or are you just selective in picking the things that you want to hear or see, just like your previous post about me "comparing with other unis etc etc"?

the students are making noise, just in different intensities that's all.

some are truly angry, go post on stomp, i am annoyed with the lack of accountability, post on sgforum

i really don't see what's wrong in wanting to know the reason why they stopped it.

when you're done assuming what i'm angry about, let me know ya?

No, honestly speaking there is no problem with you wanting to know where the money for the refreshments goes to, but reasonably speaking, is it that much of an amount to warrant all that intense attention? Isn't there really nothing else better to do than wanting the administration to give you full accountability of their accounting expenditure? The refreshments issue was never officially part of the fees, there was no proper documentation; it was a goodwill gesture by the school to provide some form of student welfare.

The bottom line is, if the refreshments mean that much to you, arguing until your face turns blue on sgforums will not accomplish anything, neither does posting on stomp.

dumbdumb! SG

then there's a logic flaw there.

if it isn't expensive, then why did they stop it? regardless whether the cost was covered by the students or sim itself.

also, do you think it's alright for them to be keeping money that they didn't spend, if they were suppose to spend it? think about the NKF issue.

yes, exactly, i didn't specifically say that, that's why i said, it'd be nice if you stop assuming what i'm talking about and actually read? i mean, if you want to have a nice constructive argument, is reading what the other person type too much to ask for?

nightsky87 SG

then there's a logic flaw there.

if it isn't expensive, then why did they stop it? regardless whether the cost was covered by the students or sim itself.

There can be many reasons why they choose to stop it. Money is merely one of them, but you wholeheartedly assumed that it was the financial factor that led to the school cancelling the refreshments. You're not the one working behind the scenes conducting day to day operations of the school, the cost of the refreshments was YOUR conjecture and YOUR assumption fully. The school has yet to give their account for the cancellation of the refreshments (and like I said, they are not obligated to account for the withdrawal of a privilege). So who's the one making the logic flaw now?

But I sincerely admit the very first post about the comparison of the other unis was my mistake - kind of like a LOL post. So yah, sorry if that offended you or anyone.

xavier1979 SG

In SIM, everything works on money. Students have to pay extra just to attend revision classes for their exams.

dumbdumb! SG

that's why.. i wanted some sort of accountability to it? they can't be slowly cutting corners here and there just to pocket the spare change and there is no one to account for it. or the students who paid the fees, aren't told why they were cutting corners, and where is the money going to etc.

it's just like the old argument about church collecting funds, but nobody knows where the fund is going to etc.

nightsky87 SG

then there's a logic flaw there.

if it isn't expensive, then why did they stop it? regardless whether the cost was covered by the students or sim itself.

also, do you think it's alright for them to be keeping money that they didn't spend, if they were suppose to spend it? think about the NKF issue.

The NKF issue?

The school is a business, not a charitable foundation. Seriously who is the one making the logical flaws here??

The school is NOT accountable to the students! They are accountable only to the management and the shareholders. Please get that fact right. You are merely the customer, you pay for a degree, the school provides you with one. Please go read your CASE-approved student contract, if it says anything about provision of refreshments, please tell me, then YES they are accountable because that was part of your contract with them.

nightsky87 SG

it's just like the old argument about church collecting funds, but nobody knows where the fund is going to etc.

Now you want to bring in religious organisations?? OMG!

dumbdumb! SG

But I sincerely admit the very first post about the comparison of the other unis was my mistake - kind of like a LOL post. So yah, sorry if that offended you or anyone.

definitely offended me, with good reasons too.. =)

hmm, well, we'll know once SIM becomes transparent about it isn't it? which is why i want accountability (repeated again) about it.

but i don't see how wrong i can be, to assume (unlike your statement about me comparing costs between unis) that financial factors were the reasons for the cancellation of the refreshments.

like i said before. someone said that there is no free lunches in singapore, the costs had to be covered by someone. if it's not by us, it's by sim (it's an independant school, i believe?). if they were the ones covering the costs, then of course, it would make sense for them to cut corners, because it is a privilege, and it's entirely up to them, and it's only good business practice to have some sort of transparency between the school and the students.

and logically, sim wouldn't be the one covering the cost all these while (which smart businessman would allow a potential liability to eat into their profits? in fact a smart business man would make the students pay for the refreshments, and maybe earn a proft of maybe 2 cents off each students?)

so if we are the ones who are paying for the refreshments, and then it was discontinued, it's only fair that at least we're told why it was discontinued, and at most, some sort of compensation (too much to ask for i guess)

so how is this reasoning a logic flaw, unlike your statement about the refreshment being inexpensive (which you haven't acknowledged that it was flawed logic), and that i'm petty enough to want to know where my every cent i invested in sim is going to?

also you forget (now i'm just using this as an example), that it's never the disappearing of large sums of money which escape people's notice. but the little disappearing of cents. just like most embezzlement cases.

dumbdumb! SG

The NKF issue?

The school is a business, not a charitable foundation. Seriously who is the one making the logical flaws here??

the school IS accountable to the students, because the students invested money in them.

that's what a stakeholder is. anyone who has an invested interest in something, may it be the student, the workers there, or the management team.

if there is no need for accountability, the school could just happily close down tomorrow without informing anyone the reason for doing so, isn't it?

just like the other uni, UNSW? they had to abandon their plans to start a few courses here due to the lack of students. and they had to explain their decision to those who have successfully enrolled.

if the school isn't accountable at all to students, they could just leave without explaining anything. which of course, is wrong.

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