Oz waste $ to probe HMS Sydney sinking in WW 2

last SG · 2008-04-02T07:12:13+00:00

Originally posted by noisylion:there are more pressing issues to be solves than doing national day:the idea suggest of making SAF soldier fight urban warfare...

lionnoisy SG

There are many serious and urgent issues to be solved in Oz defense.

Spending limited resources to probe HMS Sydney iso solving the more pressing problems , is against principal of management.

Probing HMS Sydney is important but not urgent!

Defending Oz ,being important and Very Urgent , is the no.1 priority!

Oz has miles of files on the sinking.This is the time to draw conclusion,but

not engage high paid QC lawyer to start the case from ground zero.

above added 5 april 2008

One of the management priority is to set the priority right!

From personnel to country,with limited resources but unlimited goals,

one has to prioritze his targets.

Oz defense,currently are struck with lot of issues to be settled.

However,ample resources will be spent to probe the sinking of

in 1941 in WW 2!!

Questions

1 How Will the findings relevant to contemporary naval warfare?

2.Will the expenses justify the effects?How much lessons can be learn from the findings,if any?

3.Are there more urgent and important tasks can be achieved with the allocated resources?The bad news is the expenses will be a dark hole.Why?

''There are documents that travel across 23km of shelf space.''and the lead man is an QC!!

4.Why more resources to rectify the system failures in ADF,and the chain in procurement,from contract negotiations /enforcement,manufacturing,after sale services etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_between_HMAS_Sydney_and_HSK_Kormoran

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23464064-31477,00.html

Mark Dodd and Elizabeth Gosch | April 01, 2008

THE man who presided over the inquiry into AWB kickbacks to Saddam Hussein has been asked to examine the sinking of HMAS Sydney 67 years ago.

Acting Prime Minister Julia Gillard said Terrence Cole QC would oversee what she warned would be a lengthy and complex investigation into the navy's worst maritime disaster.

Mr Cole was appointed to lead the commission of inquiry because of his extensive knowledge of maritime law and experience as deputy judge advocate-general of the Australian Defence Force, Ms Gillard said.

Current pressing Issues

5. http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1164/topics/309931

Australia, Kaman reach financial deal on Super Seasprite cancellation
The Australian government has reached agreement with Kaman Aerospace International Corporation on financial terms following the government's cancellation of the Super Seasprite helicopter programme. The AUD1 billion (USD920 million) project was cancelled on 5 March following software integration and airworthiness problems that had put it nearly seven years behind schedule

[first posted to http://jdw.janes.com - 20 March 2008]

6. http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1164/topics/239903

Lock

7.http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1164/topics/235530

8 http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1164/topics/245201

Lock

9 http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1164/topics/301226

10. i remember Oz frigates cant go to sea....etc

i just admire Oz navy future toys.

March 24, 2008 09:50pm

THE navy has produced a secret $5 billion "wish list" that includes an aircraft carrier and Tomahawk cruise missiles for its submarine fleet.

It wants a third 26,000 tonne amphibious ship equipped with vertical take-off jet fighters, a fourth $2billion air warfare destroyer and submarine-launched cruise missiles that are able strike targets thousands of kilometres away....

''The Spanish made landing helicopter dock.''

CM06 SG

Eh, sailors went down with the ship.

Answering that question will be able to give the families of those sailors some peace. They can also build a memorial for them after. Besides, it's part of History and people will remember the sacrifices of Australian soldiers for ww2.

Is this not a moral thing to do?

As to the rest of your post,

... ...

lionnoisy SG

Eh, sailors went down with the ship.

Is this not a moral thing to do?

As to the rest of your post,

... ...

basic question:priority.

Gedanken SG

Looks like ST was right - Noisy Pussy runs away from yet another fight (probably wearing inline skates and carrying a toy SAR21 by its handle ) and pops up somewhere else to stir more shit.

While we wouldn't notice, much less mourn, Noisy Pussy being flushed down a garbage disposal unit, CM06 is right. It's history and its basic decency, concepts which Noisy Pussy couldn't possible conceive.

fornax84 SG

Well.......SG spent close to a million dollars to invite a French consultant to name marina bay as "marina bay".

So who's more foolish?

And by claiming that this proj is a waste of money and is irrelevant, you are insulting those who study arts and especially history. In SG, they are the very ppls that ensure that your future generations won't think that SG history is just abt LKY and Raffles

Gedanken SG

basic question:priority.

Indeed, priority. The government refuses to treat its men as cannon fodder. Just because your life isn't worth shit doesn't mean others' aren't, dickhead.

Gedanken SG

Well.......SG spent close to a million dollars to invite a French consultant to name marina bay as "marina bay".

So who's more foolish?

More importantly, if a government were to treat it as a waste of money, it sends out a message to people that they're not worth a damn to the country. Especially in a conscript-staffed military like Singapore's can you imagine what the NS men's attitude would be if war came? "They don't give a fuck about us, we don't give a fuck about them - I'm outta here".

fudgester SG

Seriously, this is one dangerous post that lionnoisy has made.

Blardy hell - show some respect to all those men who died fighting the Axis, can? They died so that you can have the freedom to spout your nonsense!

If your ancestor had been a crewman aboard the HMS Sydney, are you gonna scold the Australian government for 'wasting money' on this endeavour?

lionnoisy SG

The topic may be wrong.

I think ''Oz shall prioritise her defense resouce'' is better.

2.If u were Oz lead,would u fix the few pages long current, serious ,system failures,

and no platforms to defend Oz rpoblems OR to probe the WW 2 sinking?

Which one,tell me here?

This is the job of a leader---make a tough decision,NOW!

3.Tell me what naval platforms and how many units can Oz deploy

if there is a serious military threat to Oz next month,not to mention next week?

I understand from Oz media--

only half Sub can go to sea

Frigates cannot go to sea

etc....

Gedanken SG

The topic may be wrong.

Of course the topic is wrong - you do NOTHING right.

Gedanken SG

Blardy hell - show some respect to all those men who died fighting the Axis, can?

Respect? Fudge, this fumduck wants soldiers to run away from fights carrying their weapons by the handles and wearing inline skates, for fuck's sake - still he's got the thick skin to talk about "priorities" like some twenty-star armchair general. Do you honestly think he has the capacitry to understand respect?

Whoever let this idiot out of the basement deserves a good tight slap.

lionnoisy SG

would the resources be used in other more pressing uses?Like,

read my two quotes below .i alreday told u there is system failures in Oz defense,

STUPID!!

1.review how the ACP M 113 took more than 10years to upgrade and still works in progress.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23414475-2,00.html?from=public_rss

3.Enough lah.u will fall asleep if i continue.

would forgive me my suggestion to divert the resources to probe the sinking

of HMS Sydney to probe current and more pressing problems of

Oz defense instead.

My suggestion can save more lives.

5.How can the findings,if any,improve the current naval warfare in 21 st century?

Allan Behm | March 11, 2008

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,23352078-7583,00.html?from=public_rss

It is not just the upgrade of the army's armoured vehicles, the modernisation of the navy's frigates or the delivery of the air force's airborne early warning aircraft that face cost overruns and delay: dozens of projects are in arrears.

The problem is not the staff that make up the project teams, though staff turnover and a lack of experience and expertise impose serious constraints on performance. It is a much more systemic problem that goes right to the heart of the capability selection, development and decision-making processes within the department. Failures in these areas are costing billions in waste and delay.

With the benefit of hindsight, the 1997 decision to abolish the force development and analysis division was a critical mistake. Although the defence efficiency review streamlined the department organisationally by removing duplication, it failed to maintain a capacity for disciplined analysis. FDA ran the heavy rollers of its considerable analytical capability over all substantial acquisition proposals and, in consequence, was loathed by the military. With no friends in high places, FDA morphed into a new capability systems division that brought together the various ADF groups against which FDA had battled. It was placed under a two-star officer, then quarantined. The highly qualified and experienced analysts - many of them with defence science and advanced policy development backgrounds - dispersed within weeks. They have never returned.

The analysis black hole is compounded by two other deficiencies. First, there are fundamental weaknesses in the Defence Department's decision-making systems. While decision support systems are normal in high-performing corporations and businesses, the department has yet to acquire one. Consequently, there is no capacity for decision audits, rendering it impossible to establish who made what decision and when.

Moreover, project implementation against predetermined performance yardsticks cannot be monitored accurately. Generally, decisions are made in committee, with key players - often the service chiefs - exercising a right of veto as they modify capability specifications or just stall projects by calling for reviews, studies and other nugatory work with which they can bamboozle a minister.

Second, the department has almost no capacity for risk modelling, evaluation and mitigation.

In Australia, there is no other organisation that deals with the complexity of technological, systems and human interfaces such as those that distinguish the Defence Department's key acquisitions.

7.without bias,read and think why so many defense laughing stocks happen?

would the new Super Hornets become another

http://canberra.yourguide.com.au/news/local/opinion/messy-politicised-public-service-needs-total-shakeupjohn-howard-abused-the-instruments-of-state/1208280.html

What was done or not done that led to the outcome on Seasprite? What processes led to the ordering of the Super Hornet? On what strategic basis was the Abrams tank purchased? And what has been the rationale for purchasing the F-35 off the plan with all the delays and cost blowouts that can be expected? Wasn't the experience of the F-111 enough? And what is the thinking behind the construction of the airwarfare destroyers and where are they likely to be effectively deployed? Why are submarines unmanned?

Why is Australia purchasing such expensive military hardware? Putting aside the political need to rush to the side of the US in its military adventures as the apparent cost of our insurance, where are we planning to use this hardware and for what purpose?

Gedanken SG

What about inline skates? Would the money be better spent on inline skates? Well, would it?

laurence82 SG

Yes I agree with noisy pussy, at last

This is inline (pardon the pun) with Singapore government's policy of demolishing her historical buildings and erasing the history of our pioneers from social studies books and replace with stories of what happened after 1959 aka showing off PAP's victories

Well done

*clap clap*

arball SG

actually, i liked the DKM Kormoran vs HMAS Sydney case alot.... read alot abt it.... well, its something about national identity right? you also want to lay the ghosts of the past to rest also.

lionnoisy SG

There are only two surface combtants in Oz.

Both of them get serious problems!!

http://au.search.yahoo.com/search?p=Australia+Frigates+upgrade&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-501&x=wrt

http://www.navy.gov.au/fleet/gm_frigate.html

Mark Dodd | November 01, 2007

http://www.navy.gov.au/fleet/anzac_frigate.html

Seasprite helicopters cant protect this frigates anymore.

3. read more lah

http://www.aph.gov.au/Senate/committee/fadt_ctte/shipping/report/c04.htm

4 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procurement_programme_of_the_Royal_Australian_Navy

Gedanken SG

They'll work better than your featherbrained idea of launching Superbugs off ski ramps.

Actually, pussy, you're the grand pubar of wasting money, aren't you? Wanna trade a Fantail for an MG? Or maybe chucking M1s off C-130s to see if they'll break?

Fucking hypocrite.

tankfanatic SG

i think we should loose the f words here...

arball SG

send the f-words? ala send the gunboats....or send a carrier....

srrie, just had to say that.... lols.

well, personally, i feel that well, finding more about the history of your dick, and trying to recover your lost feelings for it, is a seperate issue from trying to make your dick digitalised and longer rite?

well, again, srrie , cos i had to say tt :D

Gedanken SG

i think we should loose the f words here...

Why? It's not as if we're dealing with a human being here, much less a decent one.