RSAF search for new fighter to replace the F-5s

last SG · 2007-10-03T11:56:16+00:00

Is SG F-15 body frame old or new?

Arthas79 SG

The F-15SGs can remain viable for a long time still. Can our Blk 52/54 vipers be viable in the long run(say post 2015)against newer opponents ? We would not buy Vipers for them to last less than ten years and watch them become obsolete. And you would need newer planes to operate and synergise better with newer over-arching systems like the CAEWs.

If you are looking at the newer vipers, I think they can cost as much as > $60 million a pop with AESA, CFTs, etc. You might as well get the F-15SGs which has greater range(hence more flexibility), greater carriage and a more powerful(second only to the F-22`s radar i think) AESA radar.

UAE`s 80 Blk 60 vipers which comes with the latest avionics(including AESA) and systems cost as much as 8 billion USD in 2000(excluding inflation). Are you willing to fork out that much money when you can get just as many F-15s which would increase your capabilities significantly? Why do you think the latest F-16s were dropped during the competition? We could have gone for an all F-16 fleet. But we did not.

Arthas79 SG

No doubt the Sukhois that are entering our region are capable, but their numbers are far too low to actually present a significant threat to the Vipers we have.

That`s 18 sukhois from Malaysia and 12(?) in Indonesia with more to come surely; especially from the Indonesian side. 30 Sukhois in total. Nope. Id put my faith in more F-15SGs rather than the current 12 + 8 we have opted for. Times are changing. The aerial strategic balance is changing as well. Where we can be contented with F-16s versus poorly run airforces with planes that can hardly fly, we would have to contend with leading fighter jets of the new century. Of course, there is always China and India and the need to help keep the balance of powers in SEA.

justcooler SG

I personally doubt the capabilities of our region SU...

Don't fire me on this, SU is a great piece of hardware, but the software is as important. training, strategies development, tactics, maintenance, optimise in the utilisation of the avionics, etc, etc. All contributes to the how potent this weapons will be in the battle space.

The network warfare system that SAF has developed (I am really confident in) has greatly multiply the existing force by many times over. So is there really a need to have such big number of advance fighters ???

LazerLordz SG

The F-15SG is more aligned towards meeting external non-SEA threats in the future.

38 SG

You mean in Asean, there is no F-15 class heavy fighters existing that leads you to get such an impression?

One question for you, among all the flankers in service in the Asia, which platform is the best model for air superiority role?

A. Su27SK ( PLA, TNI, VAF)
B. Su30MKK or Su30MK2 ( PLA, TNI, VAF)
C. Su30MKM or Su30MKI ( RMAF, IAF)

(Hint: only Su30MKM & MKI are equipped TVC & phased array radar optimized for A2A )

Arthas79 SG

Don't fire me on this, SU is a great piece of hardware, but the software is as important. training, strategies development, tactics, maintenance, optimise in the utilisation of the avionics, etc, etc. All contributes to the how potent this weapons will be in the battle space.

Plausibly true my friend. I do not regard thier airforces very highly. hehe. Take the Malaysians for example. The airforce and government should be sued numerous times over the deaths of countless pilots and servicemen due to shoddy servicing and derelict aircraft. You know that it is like so because even relatively newer aircrafts like the hawks are raining from the skies. A Sukhoi crash(god forbid) would literally turn the airforce into a practical joke.

But you are not going into battle with this presumption would you? So, I disagree with you in this respect. We need more hardware baby. Twisted Evil

justcooler SG

You also have to understand, maintaining a zoo with various species is really not easy. So accident figures are understandable…

duotiga83 SG

frm the looks of F-15....even if we are the LAST order for the strike eagles, avioincs and engines upgrade might become costly too.....since we are so call the "last" strike eagle operator to operate the massive a/c we have. our procurement has somewhat asked the USAF to upgrade their F-15C radars to our standards for their ANG if you do not know the news.......

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http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/global_strike/news/2007/q4/071009c_nr.html

Boeing Awarded $70 Million Contract for Enhanced F-15C Radar
ST. LOUIS, Oct. 09, 2007 -- The Boeing Company [NYSE: BA] has been awarded a $70 million contract to begin upgrading U.S. Air Force and Air National Guard F-15C Eagles with the APG-63(V)3 Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar. The upgrades will begin in first quarter 2009.

The Raytheon APG-63(V)3 AESA radar combines the operationally-proven APG-63(V)2 AESA software and the revolutionary hardware advances of the F/A 18E/F Super Hornet's APG-79 AESA radar to create a high performance system that is reliable and affordable.

"The AESA radar greatly improves the Eagle pilot's situational awareness, targeting range and accuracy," said Jim Means, director of Proprietary Programs for Boeing Global Strike Systems.

The AESA radar will ensure the F-15Cs continue their combat-proven air supremacy well into the 21st century. The AESA radar also will reduce the cost of maintaining the F-15C due to its improved reliability.

The APG-63(V)3 radar is the latest addition in planned upgrades to the F-15C, which have included a fighter-to-fighter data link, GPS navigation and the Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing System, enabling network centric operations while employing the latest air-to-air weapons.

Arthas79 SG

Im not aware that our procurement has nudged the US into upgrading the F15s. I doubt that we will be the last of the F-15 buyers. The Koreans still would want to buy more. Tha Japanese might buy although that there is talk about getting the Typhoons but the US influence is strong. The House of Saud might get some more. Same with the other Gulf states.

Also, present operators would want to upgrade the current batch of F-15s since they still have long life-span left.

All in, you are talking about thousands of F-15s available in the market now and in the near future. I do not think the cost of parts would be that expensive. Conversely, it might have been the case if we had purchased the Rafale which have found few suitors. My two cents.. Very Happy

duotiga83 SG

Saudi is getting Typhoons for their Tornadoes replacement.....i can tell you this,if you read the latest AFm issue on USAF 60th anniversary, they having a lot of budget problems for their a/c upgrades & replacments.....F-15 is 1 of the most exp a/c to sell & i can tell you not a lot of countries will be getting it, even if is 2nd hand.....i say is either us or S Korea. Japan is already considering to built their Stealth fighter to replace F-4 phantoms since Uncle Sam would not want to sell F-22A to them.

Arthas79 SG

the Saudis have a rather large aircraft inventory. Tornadoes, F15s, etc. So, what is going to replace their F-15s? Boeing would have more than enough opportunity to sell the F-15s to the Sauds. Add a little arm wrestling and you have a deal. The Sauds are in a rather precarious position. They got somewhat downgraded F15s from the US because of Israel. But who knows? They might be sold newer versions of the F-15s(when the situation permits )to work with the Typhoons because obviously they would not be getting the F-35s anytime soon. I am surprised they are having budget problems. Well, they only need dip into thier oil kitty to get more dollars. I hardly think that is an issue with them. They had just spurlged on 80(?) Typhoons.lol. Just like that.

The other rich Gulf states could be nudged to buy the F-15s as well. Recently, there was even a report which commented on Iraq`s airforce buying F15s and F16s; via its oil money.

It will be many more years before anything concrete comes out of the Japanese stealth fighter project; if any. If anything, they are trying to leverage on that to get access to the F-22s. Meanwhile, what are thier choices? Typhoons? Possible. F-15SGs. Likely due the fact that they already operate F-15s and the US lobby(which is stronger than S.K incidentally).

F-15 has good company with the Typhoons, Rafale, Gripen, F-16 blk 60 and even the sukhois when it comes to high upfront costs.

duotiga83 SG

i am not saying abt exports...i am saying abt USA having budgetary problem in regrds of maintining their a/c into nxt gen warfare...indeed they have F-22 now in their arnesal, but did you know that while the SDM testing, F-22 actually flameout twice during testing? now the F-35 is being delayed even longer due to the sensors problem. F-15 they only upgrade not all , just a portion of the strength into AESA capable and engine epgrade ( PW engines to GE engines, Lantirn to Sniper XR) A-10 also a certain no iinto A-10C, with upgraded avioics, but the engine issues(underpowered) is still there. KC-135 , they are still thinking abt replacing with it.....CV-22 just operational.... etc etc...

btw did you really followup news or just by hearsay? I am seriously not optimistic the way US is handling their aviation industy....the Europeans n India,China n yes Russians are catching up........they are just too complacement at the moment.....

Arthas79 SG

Surely, you would not expect tests to be successful all the time? The typhoon has even crashed and is very late. You do not hear much about Russian tests or developments because thier media is less adventurous but it does not mean it is not there.

Oh i see. You were talking about the USAF`s budgetary issues. They have a huge industry that can recover and pick up very fast if they want. A large part of the monies have gone to the operation in Iraq. But it does not mean that the US is unable to ramp up the production of these planes. I am absolutely certain that they do not want to lose thier aerial dominance. There`s always a lot of talk going on. At the end of the day, the US would get thier defence priorities right.

duotiga83 SG

The fact is, other countries wld rather go for 2nd hand F-16 rather than F-15. Just now you mention about Saudi F-15, they just opted to reengine their F-15 into GE ones.

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http://www.defense-aerospace.com/cgi-bin/client/modele.pl?prod=86878&[email protected]&modele=jdc_1

Royal Saudi Air Force Selects General Electric Company to Re-engine F-15S Aircraft

(Source: GE Aviation; dated Oct. 3, web-posted Oct. 9, 2007)

EVENDALE, Ohio --- The Royal Saudi Air Force has selected General Electric Company's F110 fighter engine to begin to re-engine its twin-engine Boeing F-15S aircraft.

The agreement calls for the purchase of 65 of GE's F110-GE-129C engines and a logistic support package, with deliveries to begin in 2008, at a total value of more than $300 million.

In selecting the GE engine, the Royal Saudi Air Force cited the F110's high performance, safety and reliability, and cost effective operation. The Royal Saudi Air Force decision marks the first time an F-15 operator has switched engine models.

For more than 20 years, GE's F110 family has been the best-selling engine on single-engine F-16C/Ds worldwide, including in the Middle East. Recently, the F110 engine has made important progress in powering the twin-engine F-15. The F110 was first selected for 40 F-15K aircraft in 2002 by the Republic of Korea Air Force, followed by Singapore's selection last year for its new F-15SG fleet.

The F110 has considerable experience on the F-15. In 1999, the U.S. Air Force completed a highly successful field service evaluation of the F110-GE-129 powering the F-15, during which time the engine surpassed 1,900 engine flight-hours. First flight of the Korean F-15K occurred in early 2005.

"This is an important day in the history of the F110 engine program," said Russ Sparks, president of Military Engine Systems at GE Aviation. "For decades, GE has supported Royal Saudi Air Force aircraft, but this is an opportunity to power and support its front-line fighters."

The F110-GE-129 engine model to power the Royal Saudi aircraft incorporates GE's Service Life Extension (SLEP) hardware, which includes the core of a successful CFM56 commercial engine, 3D aero technology and upgrades to the combustor and high-pressure turbine. The enhancements can help provide up to a 25 percent improvement in cost-per-flying hour, a significant on-wing increase and elimination of special inspections.

GE Aviation, an operating unit of General Electric Company, is a world-leading provider of commercial and military jet engines and components as well as integrated digital, electric power, and mechanical systems for aircraft. GE Aviation also has a global service network to support these offerings.

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i say it again. We are the LAST Eagle operator.

justcooler SG

Lots of countries are watching RSAF selection of our next gen fighter. So the 'lot of countries' that is watching the selection will have sometime to make their decision on replacements. furthermore these countries have much bigger air space as compared to us. So opt the 15s will be much more to their advantages.

But why do we need such a long leg strike bomber ??

Gun SG

So that our fly boys can take off from somewhere "far" to hit somewhere "near".

Same reason why your GST going to a bunch of KC-135.

Get it? Mr. Green

justcooler SG

Laughing

Arthas79 SG

The fact is, other countries wld rather go for 2nd hand F-16 rather than F-15. Just now you mention about Saudi F-15, they just opted to reengine their F-15 into GE ones.

That`s good. That is one more reason as per why parts will be plentiful which is what i am talking about anyway. Rolling Eyes

Tell me. How many countries have bought second-hand F16s and they are planning to do so? Im just curious to know.

Urm. No. Once the Koreas buy the next batch. They would become the last buyer. We`ll become the previous last buyer. If iraq buys it subsequently, then they will be the last buyer. But then again, we might buy another batch so we`ll become the last buyer agsin. But I guess the Japanese might opt for new batch, then they`ll be the last buyer. And seeing as how the Iraqis are having the Fteens to counter iran, the other gulf states might join in too (ahem with that added special nudge from uncle sam )and buy the Fteens so they will be last. So, how about putting aside the crystal ball because you look funny.lol

My point is that there are many many F-teens now and in the future. So parts will be plentiful and so the price would not be that expensive. Conversely, a brand new F16 with all the bells and whistles can be very exhorbitant and can cost just as much. So you get more bang for buck with the Fteens; relatively speaking. It confers a distinctive strategic advantage with its range, weapons carriage, larger sensors, etc.

duotiga83 SG

Chile just brought MLU F-16 from Belguim though they also brough the Blk 50 F-16C/D...soon to be Morroco....Pakistan get the stall batches of F-16A/B plus C/D procurement.....India is dangling between MiG-35, Typhoon, Rafale, Gripen, Super Hornet and F-16.

You miss my point: i said LAST OPERATOR, not last BUYER. Japanese opted for F-15Es? you got to be joking....they is a high tendecy of them getting the EUROFIGHTER TYPHOONS if they can't get the RAPTORS, plus is totally different roles. High not likely Iraqis will get any Uncle Sam a/c. C'mon , be practical now, do you think is possible? Let me tell you this, our procurement of F-15SG so that we can have Strategic Strike capability: F-15E have longer ranger than F-15C/D, F-16 n F-22. The weapons procurement is indeed very nice.

Most ppl thought that Russians a/c got trouble with spare parts, but i am surprise that recent Poland brought the F-16 Advanced blk 50 ver got problem with spares.....

Do you know why ISDF( Formally IDF) opted F-16I instead of gettingmore F-15I Raam? Since UAE has already funded the CFT tech n AESA trechnology into the falcon, thus bringing the cost down for them to procure.

i got tons of links to show if i want? do you want to see it? Whatever aircraft we see in Davis-Monathon AB in Arizona, have to see Uncle Sam Congress whether they approve the sales of "sensitive" equipment to other countries, is not you suka suka say i want that means they give it to you......

Arthas79 SG

Pakistan is about to get brand new F16s. Even if it does get the older F-16s, why is that second hand? It was emabargoed on them.

This does not prove that everyone else is buying second hand F16s. In fact, it just goes to show they are buying brand new ones. lol.

You miss my point: i said LAST OPERATOR, not last BUYER. Japanese opted for F-15Es? you got to be joking....they is a high tendecy of them getting the EUROFIGHTER TYPHOONS if they can't get the RAPTORS, plus is totally different roles. High not likely Iraqis will get any Uncle Sam a/c. C'mon , be practical now, do you think is possible? Let me tell you this, our procurement of F-15SG so that we can have Strategic Strike capability: F-15E have longer ranger than F-15C/D, F-16 n F-22. The weapons procurement is indeed very nice.

Lol. dont be silly. You do not have exclusive knowledge for that. And yes, that is being practical. And no, there is every possibilty of Japan buying a multi-role F15 plane. Just like Korea. Well, it is the same case with the rest as well.

I know why we bought the F15s. I had just said something to that effect up there. Same with some of the other forumners.

i got tons of links to show if i want? do you want to see it? Whatever aircraft we see in Davis-Monathon AB in Arizona, have to see Uncle Sam Congress whether they approve the sales of "sensitive" equipment to other countries, is not you suka suka say i want that means they give it to you......

Lol. What are you talking about dude ?

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