Singapore plans multiple rocket launcher, IFV acquisitions

last SG · 2007-08-10T09:20:51+00:00

I think they’ll be going for a wheeled one…

Fingolfin_Noldor SG

The Russians have a huge mortar, the 2S4 self propelled 240mm mortar, which they still use. Leaves very large craters. Very Happy

Arthas79 SG

I'm just being imaginative and won't rule out that possibility.

Yeah, I agree that we must prepare for any eventuality. Even if the northerners decide to shoot themselves in the foot several times over in a mad rush to protect themselves.

Not so long ago Mahathir had made a comment about war between neighbor he said that there are too many relatives stay between both end of the causeway and that SG is densely populated any conflict will result in heavy civilian casualty.

What makes you think Malaysia is not densely populated? It depends on where you hit. At current force levels, the RSAF could flatten anything in the peninsula. The RMAF would not be around by then to appreciate the new decor. The stupidity of such actions would be disastrous for Malaysia; internally and externally.

Singapore would have the opportunity to push back Malaysia`s economy to the stone age and inflict more harm on Malaysia`s civilian population with impunity. She would have the global community behind her during and after the suspension of conflict. When everyone is picking up the pieces, Malaysia would be severely at the losing end. Of course, this is assuming that the Malaysians do lose thier brains.

Arthas79 SG

Actually I think it's the opposite - The MAF MLRS is to discourage us from launching any pre-emptive strikes or moving into and holding JH.

Even if we take out all their airfields in the first strike we can't possibly know where each and every single one of their Astros is as these things are mobile and can fire from any small piece of clearing or plantation.

They can remain undetected until firing by then which it is too late.

As discussed, it would be unthinkable for the SAF to not target the Astross at the start of any conflict. Wars take time to develop with clear discernible signs.

To the contrary, Singapore`s huge intelligence gathering capability(air, satellites, singnit, etc) would make it very hard for the Malaysians to move anything around without being seen. Suffice it to say, Singapore has a real-time picture on the ground. Conversely, Malaysia does not have this capability. How many Astross launchers would survive our initial lightning strike? Most likely none. Assuming a few(what the heck..assume all) are not destroyed and launched some quick salvos before being immediately targetted and bombed/destroyed themselves but at what cost? That would not stop Singapore from crossing the Tebrau and invading Malaysia. But that would just enrage our citizen army even more. Just look at how much hardened the Israelis have become. People will adapt in order to survive.

What we need is a anti-rocket defence system like the Patriot.

Concievably, these unguided rockets would be easy to shoot down even with our current SAM assets. At issue is whether we want to waste expensive missiles on such cheap rockets. Therein lies one of the goals of the Israeli `Iron Dome' project which is to develop a cheap system to kill cheap targets.

The alleged inaccuracy of the Astros also give them a good excuse for demolishing a few HDB blocks in Woodlands or AMK etc.

Realistically, rockets, like artillery shells do not flatten large buildings. They do damage them. Their war-heads are small; in many cases smaller than tube artillery shells.

A major point to note is that Singapore will attack first and yet she retains the ability to hit back harder in the unlikely event when struck first.

Arthas79 SG

Neways, back to the topic, I've mentioned this in this forum in various threads before already, but it'll be good to reiterate it here again, since we are now finally getting some MLRS of our own; MLRS in MY's hands would be a strategic weapon against singapore, but MLRS in our hands would just be a tactical weapon against MY ... our lack of strategic depth has never been more apparent ... there are now rockets that can easily cross the entire span of Singapore in the unpredictable northerner's hands ... I think things got more dangerous after they got it, since that forces us to stick to our old pre-emptive strike strategy ...

How tactical and strategic are our Himars ? With guided rockets, they can be very strategic in nature with long-lasting effects against key targets.

Remember our tube artillery. It would be unlikely for the Malaysians to array thier artillery pieces(especially the Astross) when they are within range of our own artillery(40km) and especially since our artillery out-number thier artillery greatly.

The Himars would be able to accomodate a variety of rockets with ranges from 30km to 300 km. Like all MLRS systems, range matters and the further they are, the less rockets(and often smaller war-heads) they can fire. And in the case of the 150 km Israeli guided rockets like the Lorad and 300 km guided ATACMS, the Astross would have to be stationed deeper in Malaysian territory rendering these equipment practically useless where bombing mainland Singapore is concerned and even our forces in Johor.

Would the Malaysians risk putting thier most prized assets within range of our superior and arguably more accurate rockets then? I think not. Hence, I reckon that we intend to effectively push our virtual safety zone of influence deeper into Malaysia. Not that we cannot absorb any artillery strike. In addition, we are even upgrading our current SAM systems and related defence equipment.

Would not this bring back both nations to the status quo before the advent of the MLRS? I certainly think so.

Of course, other systems like our SAMs would play a part as well. And of course, this is not counting our other strategic assets which we have always been rumored to have; being in the form of long range cruise missiles indigenously developed or together with Israel. Smile Perchance, we could see some of them being officially declared in the near future.

Comments? This is very interesting.

Orcishwarrior SG

Cruise missile? Rather wait for MY to procure it before any official announcement. Correct me if i m wrong singapore has long embraced cruise missile technology just waiting for the right time to declare lol

chino65 SG

As discussed by who? The Chief of Defence? Does SAF know what you consider thinkable or unthinkable..?

You have this on what authority? We know a lot, true. But only you believe we know absolutely everything.

Absolutely none? Wah... very impressive theory.

How do you know all these things? Especially when they have not even happened yet.

Everyone is talking about possible scenarios but you are talking absolutes.

You mean absolutely not one single rocket will get through? Wow... so powderful one... Mr. Green

Don't mean to rib you but it is hard to just let you continue spouting all these absolute victory scenarios without reminding you that in this world, nothing is guaranteed or black and white like you imagine it.

Arthas79 SG

Haha. After reading your reply, it would seem that the gist of your comment is that you were irked that i quoted you and hate what you are reading. Much less than what you are saying, this is in fact a discussion in a forum. Feel free to refute them even if the poster feels strongly about them.

As discussed by who? The Chief of Defence? Does SAF know what you consider thinkable or unthinkable..?

Go read the thread. It is made within the context of the SAF targetting key structures and equipment. Are you telling me that it would not be unthinkable for us not to have targetted them in our initial strikes. Perhaps, you have a better idea. Then, let`s hear them.

You have this on what authority? We know a lot, true. But only you believe we know absolutely everything

What are you rambling about?

Did i say that? I say that it `would' be very hard for the Malaysians to move thier forces around. Conceivably, our current surveillance assets and the fact that we are very close would make it very hard for them to move around. That is factually correct. Especially equipments large equipments like tanks, armoured vehicles, etc.

And how do you know they would not be? Given our ability to see first and strike first. And where on earth is the `absoluteness' part of my post. Either you are hallucinating or you simply do not like hearing possibilities of that nature and based on our current capabilities.

You mean absolutely not one single rocket will get through? Wow... so powderful one...

Having trouble reading are we? Where did i say that? But it may well be the case since cheap unguided rockets are are relatively easier to shoot with sophisticated SAM systems Smile

chino65 SG

The gist of what I am saying remains the same:

"Don't mean to rib you but it is hard to just let you continue spouting all these absolute victory scenarios without reminding you that in this world, nothing is guaranteed or black and white like you imagine it."

And, no, "hate" is too strong a word.

Shotgun SG

Cool it la ppl.

The gist is, we can't make sweeping statements on capabilities and outcomes of battle.

The ball is round. Believe me when I say I agree that SAF possesses very expansive Intelligence capabilities. Even so, there is no such thing as a transparent battlefield where there are no unknowns.

Reducing uncertainties doesn't mean all unknowns are eliminated.

I believe Mindef is aware of the damage the Astros can cause. Examine the Israeli encounters with katushyas and other forms of unguided rockets, and you will realize that if those weapons were manned by properly trained personnel, the damage would have been more extensive.

CM06 SG

Nothing is garanteed at all. If there is, we will just all convert to artillery since we know where all their troops are and dont need to bother fighting them since we can just put a 155mm or a 250pound jdam where they stand.

Saying this as someone in my POV, is that while we have enhance battlefield sensors, the conflict will have to be fought on the ground. It's real and information is still lacking. Just because you know the guy is standing in that place doesnt mean you wont die trying to reach him.

There's no such thing as garanteed destruction from pretargetted/firststrike plans. By that same measure, Taiwan should just give up since everything they own is already targetted Razz Not to draw that into conflict but stated as a clear example.

Perhaps, Astros2 may be fitted with a crude tradjectory correction device? It might not even have to be announce since it's not an arms purchase. Always remember, if you have a sniper rifle, to kill a person you have to aim..if you have a suicide bomber strapped on nails+ballbearings+TNT, no aiming is required.

War is dirty, the person who can walk away from the Geneva Convention in a war is the one who won the war (Can clean up all evidence mah).

equlus84 SG

Btw, since it is more or less confirm that 8x8 IFV will be introduced into the army, why not we make alittle guess on wad possible variant will be introduced for this new "stryker formation".

My guess is.........

1) vanilla variant with 30mm BXII turret.
2) Mortar carrier
3) armoured ambulance
4) command or intelligence vehicle with 7.62mm GPMG
5) 25mm OWS with SPIKE ATGM

What do you think are the chances of Terrex AV-81 for this competition? What are the other rival models?

CM06 SG

Based on Stats drawn from army-technologies.com

Here's an overview base on show specs: (Recommendation from what i see)

I would say Candidates have to qualify for the following:

Engine/transmission:

8X8 AWD 4 steering wheels,

400Kw Diesel engine(or 350 Hp est)

Propellor(covered) in baseline model with 10km/h water crossing.

more than 700Km range

more than 100km/h road speed

Low engine mantainence(duh)

Body specs:

Width no more than 3meters

Height about 2 meters

Length about 7 metres

V shape hull for increase mine blast resist

Combat load of over 22 tons

Payload of at least 8 tons

C-130 transportable with minimal removal of parts

Self inflate tyres , able to run on flat tires..blah blah blah

Armour specs:

Modular add-on armour/slat armour/era

minimal 40mm agl/0.5inch hmg resistant.
Add on armour up strength to 25/35 mm?

NBC + AIR CON *muahaha*

Low thermal signature

Weapons/payload:

Up to 9 combat troops seated.

Driver/ VC

ROWS up to 30mm Chaingun / 40 mm agl / 0.5inh HMG / 7.62mm (Typhoon!)
LG config of 105mm
Mortar 120mm (AMOS)
ATGW * 4
dual side GPMG mounts
combat load of 2 * contact rate
Ambulance/ recovery/engineer/bridging variants
Smoke

PradurII 8X8, Patria 8x8, Piranha III/IV , Stryker, Terrax

beavan SG

wah a dream vehicle?

Shotgun SG

I have a feeling we will see a rather special variant of this terrex... oops i mean (8x Cool , with a firestorm turret capable of full autonomous mode.

chino65 SG

Firestorm or metal storm? What's firestorm BTW?

sgf SG

Apparently the Turks are using the Terrex albeit under another name.

Shotgun SG

OOOPs my bad. Metalstorm.

Ha! Play too much CnC liao.

Yeah, metalstorm.

gary1910 SG

Recent IDEF 2007 in Ankara Turkey showcased a new upgraded version of Terrex, the Turkish Yavuz.

From here I can see more armour at the sides, perhaps more armour at the top as well as there are thicker armoured hatches, a new trim vane perhaps to maintain it's amphibious capability due to higher weight and lastly what look like Israeli RCWS 30 with Spike ATGM.

tankee1981 SG

Assuming that these new Terrex is for developing light and rapid reaction mechanized infantry troops,will definitely love to have the greater mobility, armour and firepower. Maybe these light and fast troops will come in for the sweep up after the initial heavy armoured strike force which consist of the Leo2 MBTs and the BX2. Very Happy

Fingolfin_Noldor SG

Terrex looks pretty. Maybe we might just use that after all. We do need a new 8×8 wheeler.

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