TNI-AU interception of USN F/A-18C 2003

last SG · 2005-10-07T18:38:48+00:00

Btw that is public domain even though not officially acknowledged by the RSAF. Try looking for Acrobat Reader documents regarding arms transfers to Singapore...

Delta 5 SG

Overall the F-16 Viper is a better dogfighter over the F/A-18 Hornet, especially the latest Block 40/50/60 versions.

However I heard that the F/A-18 has an advantage over the F-16 in certain conditions... Anyone knows? Question

sgFish SG

The F/A-18 having 2 engines would have an advantage at high altitudes, where the air is thinner

Shotgun SG

F-16's advantage is that it can climb faster due to its high thrust to weight ratio. Being able to climb fast is a dogfighter's best ability.

Having more thrust to weight ratio also means u can quickly get into ur maximum "corner" airspeed, faster than the opponent can.

2ndly, the F-16 has a slightly lower aspect ratio when compared to the F/A-18C. 3.2 vs 3.5, and for the super bug, aspect ratio of 4. The lower the aspect ratio, the faster it can roll. Rolling is a crucial to close air combat since, u need to roll the aircraft into the correct lift vector to bring the enemy on ur nose.

However, the advantage, if u choose to call it that, is probably that the hornet can stay in a fight longer than the F-16. Both full and without external fuel tanks, (Jettisoned anyway before dogfights), the F-16 carries only 2/3 of what the hornet can carry. Hence, if the viper is unable to win a quick one, its ability to survive the confrontation would soon diminish.

sgFish SG

wont the fact that the F/A-18 has 2 engines cause it to burn fuel at a higher rate?

insouciant SG

Just to correct to earlier misconceptions.

RSAF DOES use its F5S/Ts as air defense fighters. It's ground attack role is secondary.

RSAF F5S/Ts CAN carry the Maverick for air-to-ground.

Actually the earlier F16A/Bs are better dogfighters than the C/Ds. This is probably due to the fact that the A/B models are slightly lighter and have less things hanging off them, i.e. Lanterin pods, and other budgles and stuff.

LazerLordz SG

Our F-5s are BVR capable.

SBS1908B SG

Yep, the F-5s are interceptors.

84mmrr SG

Finally found the same topic posted in this forum 2 years back by IAF:

http://military.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=50930

US, Indonesian fighters in tense encounter

JAKARTA - In a tense encounter above the Java sea, a group of US warplanes went into attack mode and were ready to fire on Indonesian jet fighters dispatched to intercept them after they flew into Indonesia's airspace, a senior officer said yesterday.

Rear Air Marshal Wresnowiro, head of Indonesia's air defence command, told a news conference that the US navy F-18 Hornets locked onto the Indonesian F-16 warplanes late on Thursday before communication was established and the incident resolved.

There were five Hornets in the group, although Rear Air Marshal Wresnowiro did not say if all of them had locked on.

'They adopted an attack manoeuvre. After they locked on, they asked whether the planes were friends or foe and an international sign indicating we're friends was relayed back.'

He said the US-made F-16s were dispatched after the US Hornets were picked up by air force radar and also noticed by an Indonesian airliner off the main island of Java.

He said the US planes were guarding an aircraft carrier, two frigates and a tanker which were travelling east.

He said the convoy was not in an area designated as a legal sea lane for passage, although the country's air force chief earlier said it was.

A spokesman for the US embassy in Jakarta said they were looking into the incident.

An Indonesian air force spokesman blamed the incident on slow Indonesian bureaucracy, adding the United States had sought permission to pass through but this was not approved in time.

'This was a sign of weakness in our bureaucracy because the request had to go through several institutions before it reached the hands of the air defence command on the ground,' air force spokesman Sagom Tamboen told local radio El Shinta.

The incident follows efforts to rebuild US-Indonesian military relations that were cut in response to Jakarta's failure to rein in militias that rampaged in Timor Leste when the tiny territory voted to break free in 1999. -- Reuters, AP

Shotgun SG

i'm not sure if the hornet burns more fuel to feed its twin f404 engines than the vipers to attain the same amount of thrust. That will probably require in depth research into the actual machines itself, and such information probably cant be found on the net.

Still, the GE129 or PW229 is a fuel guzzler, and an F-16 can probably only last 5-7 mins in full afterburner afterburner given its 7162lbs of internal fuel. Fuel is a very limiting factor in dogfights.

sgFish SG

not really. The A/B models are powered by a weaker turbofan, hence would give a lower thrust to weight ratio, which is a disadvantage in air combat maneuvering.

unless the Falcon One programme installed a F100-PW-229 engine in the A/Bs. then i'd agree with you

sgFish SG

yep. agreed and agreed.

how about our Block 52+ viper-Ds with the CFTs. they'd be able to last longer. how much fuel do the CFTs hold anyway?

|-|05| SG

The Superbugs can supercruise cant they?

Shotgun SG

Forum ate mypost.

Superbugs dun supercruise, only the typhoon and f-22.

Now. the CFT's add a bit of weight initially. 900lbs for an empty CFT set, + an additional 3010lbs of fuel. Assuming that we are using a similar version, it would extend the viper's fuel capacity to 10172lbs.

Full Afterburners gobble up fuel at 58000lbs per hour for the viper. Approx 966lbs a minute. Lets round it up to 1000lbs a min.

This means that the F-16 can now punch AB for a full 10 minutes! Of course not that anyone goes into Afterburners for 10mins.

Dogfights might use up quite a bit of fuel, given bad entry condition. The more disadvantageous the situation, more fuel fed into the AB.

Dogfights = Bad. Stand off = Good.

SMAPLionHeart SG

those f-16 would have became scrap metals

Twisted Evil

SMAPLionHeart SG

10 minutes can cover 1/6 of Mach 2.5 Very Happy

Shotgun SG

Unless u're in a hurry to intercept nuclear tipped cruise missiles, I doubt they'd punch 10 mins of afterburner to chase anything. After 10 mins of afterburner, pray that there's a tanker in the air nearby.

Besides, the F-16 don't hit mach 2.5. Mach 2, or 2.2 max.

Yeah, those F-16/J79's aren't worth crap. Fuel suckers and the don't even deliver as much power as the PW220s.

SMAPLionHeart SG

they can

sgFish SG

you forgot the english electric lightning Mr. Green

okay so it's not in service now...nvm

Delta 5 SG

Coming back to the main topic Indonesia has acquired a small number of Su-27SK/ Su-30MK (2 + 2) fighters, with plans to acquire up to 44 more so any future encounters will perhaps present a greater challenge to the USAF/USN.

Shotgun SG

I doubt they will have the resources to acquire a fleet of 44 flankers. They are not THAT cheap.

Urr? The Electric Lightning can supercruise?? I'm not sure..

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