Bull-Pup vs. Conventional

last SG · 2005-07-06T13:53:18+00:00

FOr INfantry use, the SAR21 seems to be the right choice! A very compact ( shorter than any M4 with 14.5" barrel or an AK 74 with 16" barrel) but the SAR21...

tvdog SG

I used the sharpshooter's scope once.

We were deployed at the beach and some angmo girls in bikinis were waterskiing. We all took turns to have a look through the section shaprshooter's scope.

Damn, all I can say is magnification not enough!

specfore SG

Hahaha.... you actually stumbled on one of the useful features of the sharpshooter scope. It is commonly used by the infantryman as a sort of spotter scope, since not all chaps are issued with the binoculars.

By the way, it is not meant to be a sniper scope, since this is a different instrument altogether. The sharpshooter scope is just to enhance the infantry sections firepower by enabling some of the chaps to lay down more accurate covering fire. It is not meant to pick-off targets at long distances... but it enables the section leader to have more options for covering fire during an assault.

Meia Gisborn SG

Using a mounted riflescope as a spotting scope might be useful out in the battlefield, but doing likewise in a non-military situation (say, when hunting) can potentially get you into deep trouble, especially if you use it to identify people. Why? Something else besides the scope is being aimed at the subject.

MG

SpecOps87 SG

Am alittle curious here…is the section marksman’s weapon a specially modified M16S1 fitted with a scope and is only able to fire in the semi-automatic mode or is it just a standard “stock” M16S1 fitted with a scope?

Meia Gisborn SG

I may be wrong, but I would imagine the latter, the reason being that if the scope is damaged, it can quickly be dismounted and the rifle reverted back to a standard-issue M16S1 with iron sights and full-auto capability.

MG

tvdog SG

The sharpshooter weapon is a stock M16S1, no modification or refinement as far as I could tell. Maybe they were specially pre-selected for their accuracy.

They can fire full-auto.

Our CIS license permits only producing the standard M16S1. All the CAR-15 I saw were imported from Colt USA.

davechng SG

The sharpshooter rifle during our times in the early 1990s are stock M16 rifle. the scope is mounted on top of the carrying handle ! From my experience with M16, this way of mounting would havemounted the scope way too high! and a cheek piece will be necesary to get the correct sight alignment.

People may argue with me that it will work but trust me, with these kind of scope setup, the cheek position is important and without the cheekpiece on the buttstock, shooter will not have proper sight alignement. thus POI will change at furter distance.

Reason why the newer M4 and M16 A3 has the flat top to properly mount the scope!

DaveC!

SpecOps87 SG

Well...read somewhere that the H&K G3 Assualt rifles in the sharpshooter config. as well as the IMI Galil were specially picked fpr their accuracy.So wondering if the SAF has the same policy for adoption.

Anyway...anyone has anything to say about the use of 3 round burst settings on automatic weapons?feel that its pretty useless...as most operators will select the mode to be in SEMI or AUTO.read somewhere that US miitary is also doing away with the 3-round burst function.

tvdog SG

The sharpshooter scope is nothing more than a tube with 2 lenses that sits snugly into the channel of the carrying handle. When mounted the reticle will be about 1cm higher than the iron sights - if I remember correctly. You are right in that it is less comfortable and providing a cheek piece would help.

The thing about SAF rifle platoon sharpshooters is that the people selected to be sharpshooters are not necessarily the best shooters.

On the other hand, I constantly achieve marksmen grade at CTSS since recruit but I ended up as the platoon runner. I hardly get a chance to fire any shots during contact as I'm too busy talking on the 12kg PRC-77 radioset and trying to keep up with the PC. (Once in the confusion I called for MG fire too early and would've wiped out one of our section had the PC not quickly countermanded the order.)

Have you noticed that in the Russian army, the infantry sharpshooters are all armed with the SVD Dragunov? This is the same weapon that their true snipers use. I think this is because there isn't anything you can do to make the AK47 round accurate enough. The Dragunov uses the old 7.62x54mm.

specfore SG

The section sharpshooter is not meant to be a sniper in the true sense. They are supposed to be "upgraded" riflemen with a low mag scope, just to give the rifle section some accurate covering fire. Accurate fire can also be used as harassing fire on the enemy, without wasting too much ammo.

Anyway, I heard many cases of the scope being damaged or lost in close terrain. It is an expensive piece of kit for the rifleman to pay up. Most of the time, the platoon chips in to help pay for the lost scope. More trouble than is worth.

Raptor937 SG

They still picked the A4 which comes in burst rather than full-auto. And I doubt they would be replacing them anytime soon.

One of the few problems I can think of the burst feature is that it doesn't reset.

Shotgun SG

Wah lao 3x nia.. of course not enuff.

My monocular alone is 10x liao... better than sharpshooter scope.
In the US, they were selling 27x sniper scopes for like USD$80++

Meia Gisborn SG

Good luck finding a US$80 27X riflescope that will hold its zero after you fire the first shot...

MG

davechng SG

The 3rd burst pack on the M16A2, and so on is a joke. It will not reset for 3 rd everytime. What I meant to say is if during one burst you fire 2 rd, the next burst will be 1 rd , than a reset will be done and you'll get a 3 rd burst after that.

I feel it is a waste of time becasue a control burst , we can achieve a good 2 to 3 rd all the time with ease.

Besides, becasue of the spring tension on the trigger mechanism, the 3 rd burst kit on the M16 created 3 different spring tension .. thus we have 3 type of trigger pull in semi auto shoot !

I would go with the std M16 trigger , Semi, FA than the POS burst kit.

The Heckler Koch MP5 trigger is completely differnt and do not pocess this problems.

DaveC!

tvdog SG

THis is what happens when you try to improve something that's already perfect.

But, really, I would've thought that they have learnt with the M16A2 that 3-round burst is not good. And most of the time I come across people saying that US soldiers themselves hated the 3-round burst.

Is this true?

And even assuming that the 3-round burst works perfectly like in the HK, how is it useful other than conserving ammo?

SpecOps87 SG

Hmmmz....personally feel that the Fully Automatic mode is better then the 3 round burst mode. The Fully Automatic mode allows the user to fire controlled bursts and if the need arises,hold down the trigger and empty the entire clip down range.The idea of having the 3 round burst is thus rather redundant

tvdog SG

Remember in FIBUA training where it is the only time you;re allowed to put your weapon to AUTO?

There is one part where the three of you is checking out a room with window closed. First man confirms enemy presence inside room and prepares grenade.

After the explosion you're supposed to stick your weapon through the window spray the room to catch anyone still standing.

With a 3-round burst how are you going to spray a room?

SpecOps87 SG

haha,rapid squeezing of the trigger?

Rockhound SG

fully auto not that good uh....

semi still the best

Shotgun SG

geee.. i think they changed that part of fibua... From what i heard, they changed to controlled fire. No more spray in "X".

as for the US $80 27x Scope... well it was hanging at one of the walmart or walgreens when I was in Springfield, Illinois.

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