Bull-Pup vs. Conventional

last SG · 2005-07-06T13:53:18+00:00

FOr INfantry use, the SAR21 seems to be the right choice! A very compact ( shorter than any M4 with 14.5" barrel or an AK 74 with 16" barrel) but the SAR21...

ceecookie SG

burst of 3 was featured in Halo 2 for the assualt rifle(new one)....

i think they model after the Styre Aug

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

Naaa, the model it after the MA5B assualt rifle, but the battle rifle fires a heavier 9.8mm round with a magazine capacity for 36 rounds, as opposed to a 60 round clip of 7.62mm for the MA5B.

Gedanken SG

Don’t know about other units, but we were trained to double-tap in FIBUA. Damn, if you went full-auto for each room, you’d run out of ammo before you cleared a building.

specfore SG

Yepp. Fast triggering , single shots, was recommended for FIBUA during my time. Only time "auto" is used, is if for covering fire or to flush out hidden snipers.

Otherwise, all the unit S4s and quartermasters would be severely stressed for ammo re-supply.

tvdog SG

This is addressed to Specfore only:

A long burst but less than 8 rounds. No one said to empty the whole magazine. Besides, you don't want to expose yourself for too long.

Besides, this routine is used only when there is CONFIRMED enemy. That's why you throw a grenade in the first place. We do not throw grenades into every room nor do we fire blindly into every empty room.

So if there are confirmed enemies inside a room, I do not consider this a waste of ammo. After tossing a grenade in there is no guarantee all enemies are killed. Or some could come from other connecting rooms. The practice of firing a couple of bursts before you go in is so that anyone still alive will be encouraged to keep their heads down as you go in.

We are infantry, not SWAT.

Don't expect niceties or finese in our methods. Mr. Green

Meia Gisborn SG

Ack! I didn't mean to resurrect an ancient thread, but I thought you guys might be interested in my latest AR build:

This particular AR features a Rock River Arms upper assembly with a 16" bull barrel and midlength handguards. The lower assembly was built from a DPMS forged receiver and RRA internals, and features a 2-stage match trigger that I've modified to break at approximately 1.5 lbs.

The holosight atop the EOP handle is a standard el-cheapo BSA "red dot" unit with a 30mm tube. It works pretty well (I was getting 4" groups at 100 yards), and should tide me over until I dredge up the funds for a more sophisticated set of optics. Mr. Green

MG

insouciant SG

Actually you can get some pretty accurate shots with the present sharpshooter scopes on the stock M16S1, you just need to get used to it.

Let's face it, since the M16S1 is good out to 300m anyway, what's the point of a 27x or even a 10x scope? In combat, your main aim (pardon the pun) is to bring the target down, not have a nice 3cm grouping.

And for those of you who have tried combat shooting, i.e. running, dodging, finding cover and then aiming, you'd realize you don't really have all that much time to find the target, not to mention the heavy breathing that causes your rifle to point all over the place. The 27x scope will not allow you to find the target quickly enough before he plugs you with iron sights!

A sniper is different. He often can take all day to slowly get into position, take up a nice comfortable position, have a spoter next to him to direct him on to target, adjust for wind and drop then shoot one rond through the head of an officer or signaller. Much different from the infantry guy charging up and down a hill or running through buildings.

Weopons and their accessories are designed for a certain purpose lah.

Raptor937 SG

Come on throw in a range report Very Happy

MG don't mind me asking, is it possible to use a 9mm heavy buffer spring for shooting 5.56mm?

Any 9mm builds? Mr. Green

storm_freaky13 SG

I like the conventional set up. bull pup looks nice but i think reloading will take really long… and in combat, those seconds count alot.

Meia Gisborn SG

Huh? Range report? What's there to report? I pulled the trigger, the rifle went BANG, the bullet hit the paper, I was happy! Mr. Green

Okay, here's a brief RR:

Since this was a new rifle, I needed to perform that wretched "barrel break-in" routine (shoot 10 rounds, pausing between each shot to clean the bore, then shoot 100 rounds, pausing every 10 rounds to clean the bore). I was shooting my tried-and-tested 55 gr. handloads that I normally use in my ARs with 1-in-9 twist barrels (my 24" varmint AR has a 1-in-8" twist barrel, and gets fed a different diet of handloads).

I also managed to zero the regular iron sights during the break-in. Very little windage correction was needed on the rear sight, indicating that the barrel was indexed correctly into the upper receiver, with no inadvertent offset to tilt the front sight base. Some other ARs, particulary the Bushmasters, have their barrels overtorqued into the upper receiver at the factory, resulting in a tilted front sight base and requiring massive amounts of left windage correction in the rear sight to properly zero.

No misfeeds or jams were encountered during the break-in, and the rifle was consistently holding sub-4" groups at 100 yards with the iron sights towards the end of the break-in. I was initially worried that the modifications I made to lighten the trigger pull of the 2-stage match trigger might cause the rifle to "double" or even go full auto, but that didn't happen.

After the break-in, I mounted the red dot sight and zeroed it. It's a cheap unit and I consider it disposable, but it held its zero surprisingly well through repeated double and triple taps. I planning on replacing it with a Hakko TacPoint red dot sight eventually.

A heavier buffer spring has the effect of mitigating the felt recoil somewhat, but can potentially lead to misfeeds if it prevents the bolt carrier from cycling completely, especially if a cartridge with less-than-normal powder is encountered.

Using a heavier buffer (not spring) like the H-buffer intended for the 9mm version also has the effect of mitigating felt recoil and reducing the cyclic rate in full-auto fire.

MG

lionnoisy SG

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