Rationale of GIGN armed with Revolvers

last SG · 2004-11-27T16:46:15+00:00

The exact same pressure can be applied on the suspect by cocking the trigger of a Double action semi auto pistol. Doing so switches the pistol from double to...

SpecOps87 SG

The French GIGN is the premier police counter-terrorist unit in France.They are rather similarly with the SG Star armed with the MP5 which has been proven to be an effective CQB weapon.Now,the question I have is that,we do realise that most of the units which are engaged in CQB use semi-automatic pistols as they have a larger ammunition capacity,and are easier to reload.Well,it is an interesting fact to know that GIGN troopers are mostly armed with a revolver as a sidearm.The rationale behind GIGN troopers being armed as posted by their webby,was that it encourages the troopers to aim and fire accurate shots and that the fact revolvers never jam compared to semi-autos.

But does it occur to them that the rate of fire from a revolver is extremely low and it isn't really suitable for CQB where action takes place fast and furious.Besides the reloading of a revolver is a time-consuming process.Anyone who has fired revolvers would know this.And I for one would definitely never go into CQB with a revolver due to the above reasons.

Anyone has views to share or comments?

sidestep1984 SG

Even Navy SEALS use revolvers in some situations... good to use out of water as there are lesser moving parts...

yes the rate of fire may be low....but thats y the GIGN are called elites....

also...one of the advantages of a revolver is that it can use rounds of a shape, length or softness that would not feed through an automatic.

Icemoon SG

GIGN uses the Manurhin MR73 revolver right?

Anyway, they do have a handgun pouch (for P228?) on their body gear, in addition to the revolver holster on their thighs.

sidestep1984 SG

yeah.....
the MR73 is standard issue....abundant in France...

Johnston SG

Consider this.
Crazed homey with a Beretta M92 shooting all over the place.
Police office with a Colt Python taking careful aim and taking him down with one shot.

Who has more firepower?

Does your statement:
"never go into CQB with a revolver"
mean that if a situation arises where you may have to enter a home in response to a call of "armed intruder"....
You'd stay outside and tell your dispatcher "Ah, im not gonna go in there, cause my revolver reloads slow and it's no good for CQB. Im gonna wait for the SWAT team."

6 well aimed shots from a revolver is better than 30 shots from a rifle sprayed all over the place.

Consider this situation.
Your ambushed in a alley. You have a revolver on you. Will you draw and shoot? Or will you tell the criminals "ah, excuse me, im not gonna shoot you because my dinky little revolver reloads slow and it's no good for CQB. Can you wait while i go home and get my pistol?"

Never say never.
The best gun is the one you have on you when you need to use one.

palmerised SG

LOL

sgFish SG

HHAAHAHHAHA

chunyong SG

revolvers do not jam but sometimes it clicks but the round doesn't discharge....happen b4 while i was still in PA with S&W...my time still using S&W, i POP then Taurus come in.

German's GSG9 more elite i guess....they wear Adiddas boots and then US and UK started to follow their style, end up i think US and UK didn't continue using the boots but GSG9 official issue boots are adiddas one....since dunno when liao. best boots are Original SWAT one....can practically run with it like a running shoe.... kneel down also easy but its not oil and fire proof though.

sidestep1984 SG

Very Happy
Bates Boots Rocks!!!!

John Ching SG

Hmm! I guess the reason has to do with the fact that the GIGN are still cops. Meaning that their duties are to protec lives & not gun crazie frenchy. Mr. Green
Using a revolver ensures a cop does not over-kill his suspect. Think of it, 6 shots over 15 shots to a suspect. Rolling Eyes

Hehehe! But on a nasty note, its probably has to do with their sorry excuse for manhood. You know the length of the barrel. Heheheh! Twisted Evil

chunyong SG

wah, like dat also can link to sexual stuff ah.....hahaha.

palmerised SG

J.C. - sorry to say but being HRTs, don't you think that the GIGN has to equip themselves with equipment that will give them an edge over the tangos? I mean, doesn't mean you carry a 15 round mag means you empty it out on a single suspect, otherwise that'll be considered as murder (or is it manslaughter? i dunno)

well, the operator's primary objective is to ensure the safety of the hostages and the objectives and neutralise anyone/anything that gets in the way.. That's what a dive buddy of mine who used to be on a close protection detail team, protecting the royal family or something like that, told me. So it's entry, clear and secure, no?

Someone on the board said that they carried semi-auto sidearms too? Don't you think it's too many things to carry around? Well I dunno, the revolver could carry LTL (less-than-lethal) rounds? Do revolvers accept LTL rounds?

Just my 2 cents..

Palmed

John Ching SG

What you've mentioned about equipment needs, is true. But they are French! Mr. Green
Seriously, cases of over-killed by HRTs is actually quite controversial. As you already know police HRTs or SWATs main objective is to protect lives including those of the tangos. But there are questionable cases of SWATs actions in which how a tango was killed. Neutral

Recently, I read in the papers about an Israeli officer being charged for emptying his pistol mag into a palestanian little girl. Sad

HM bodyguards are very much like the U.S Secret Service. When they have to draw their weapon, their main objective is to protect only the Queen or President. They do not have to care about hitting a civilian in the line of duty, unlke cops. Wink

As to how many weapons the GIGN guys carry is really up to them & their SOP. Yup, revolvers can use LTL but I have yet to seen any cop or SpecOps using it. Wink

Viking1 SG

They like their revolver because it never jams.

sidestep1984 SG

off topic....

if anyone played SWAT3/4 before....

u noe u cant be trigger happy at apprehending suspects...

i played a Hostage rescue that I played with constantly emptying an MP5 magazine in hostage-takers and had a lower point score for "Use of Excessive Force"

and when i replayed the mission and used well aimed shots to the shoulders and legs to incapacitate and make him do no additional harm but not killing him...did not get penalised for "Use of Excessive Force"

the onli time when i really had to kill him is when he poses a threat to my squads or the hostages themselves...

dunno how the above helps......

anyways...

I know SWAT3/4 is onli a game...but the way u need to handle hostage situations is very realistic....unlike in rainbow six where u need to kill all the tangos...when u are in a SWAT(or any law enforcement unit)...things are handled more differently in the Police...

dRaKe86 SG

"10-David to entry team. High-ground reports suspect sighted in room, Side 1, Level 2. Proceed with caution."

Yes I agree with the statement tat SWAT3 is a gd game.. Can't wait for the fourth installment. Due next year, 1st quarter of the year! Smile Anywayz, on a personal preference, I'd prefer an automatic pistol like a Glock17/18 or even a Colt 1911. Smile

sidestep1984 SG

its all in the mind...

palmerised SG

Well last time I used to play Raven Shield and whenever my friend and I have an encounter with a tango, as long as he hold he gun he's classified as an 'active shooter' so we neutralise him using the necessary amount of force.

But if we neutralise the threat and at the same time the threat surrenders, TOO BAD for the suspect.. He should have never gotten himself into that situation in the first place. Anyone agree with me on this? (IMHO)

As you clear your sectors, this thing goes through your mind every second, the OODA Loop.. Observe, Orientate, Decide and Action... So as long as I see(observe) and active shooter, i orientate myself toward him, decide what to do and execute it..

Just my 2 cents..

Palm-treeeeeeeee.

Johnston SG

But if you neutralise the threat at the same time he drops his weapon and raises his hands...

At the trial witnesses who are not privy to the conversation may testify:
Yes the deceased did indeed draw a weapon and threaten people.
Yes a law enforcement officer did draw his service arm and pointed it at him
Yes he shot him even as he surrendered.

Then the defence lawyer might say: Gentlemen of the jury, what can we conclude from this? The LEO in question is a bloodthirsty person. He fully intended to shoot the deceased whether or not he surrendered.

SpecOps87 SG

Well...The Isreali incident is this Officer suspect that the little girl is a suicide bomber and emptied his entire carbine at her to neutralise her.Turns out the little ger was clean.

Anyway,talking about use of excessive force,did you know in N.Ireland,SAS did shoot and kill several suspected IRA tangos even when unarmed?As they made sudden movements and were shot as the situation was very tensed back then.So what do you say bout that then?Excessive use of force?I don't think so.Different circumstances require different handling techniques.Just my 2 cents worth .