What is this new SAF toy?

last SG · 2004-09-30T21:52:04+00:00

luks like the vehicle the marines used in Aliens 2

gary1910 SG

The Bionix does not have poor amphibious characteristics( eventhough need some preparation) becos they are not meant to be use in open sea, only for small stream & river where the water are not rough.

Anyway, so far during operation, most armies do not use the amphibious capability of their APC/IFV but use their combat engineer bridges & AVLB for such river crossing becos they are safer and faster(AVLB) , that is why we have so many AVLBs and CE bridges. Mr. Green

So you dun have to worry abt our Bionix's amphibious capability, afterall our AMX-13 still need the bridge for such crossing, and they( Bionix & AMX-13s) need to go hand in hand ,so no diff !! Very Happy

For true amphibious job for the rough open sea,we have the our AMX-10s marine variant for that .

In fact our M113 Ultra could be upgraded with ARISGATOR oceanic kit to support our RDF force:

ARISGATOR

ARIS has developed an oceanic kit that transforms the M113 APC in a fully Amphibious Landing Vehicle, named ARISGATOR.
Main parts of navigation kit are:

-the bow, to improve M113 floating ability and hydrodynamic penetration,

-the sterns incorporating two separate controlled propellers that allow high manoeuvrability in navigation up to a complete spin on Arisgator vertical axis.
During navigation, the original air intake system is automatically excluded and a snorkel system on the top of the vehicle is activated.

In this configuration, ARISGATOR is able to carry safely eight fully equipped soldiers plus the driver. A 12,7 mm. or a 25 mm. turret can be installed and can be remotely controlled by personnel inside the sealed hull.
ARISGATOR can safely navigate in open sea even in considerable rough conditions, showing a very low profile above the water and maintaining the same performance on land as the original M113 APC.

This transformation of M113 APC into ARISGATOR gives the Armed Forces the opportunity to have, at very low cost, a light amphibious vehicle.
ARISGATOR can operate in stand-alone missions or in support of larger and more dedicated amphibious vehicles.

A low rate initial production contract for different configuration of ARISGATOR has been awarded to ARIS by Italian Mod to satisfy Army and Navy Landing Forces requirement.

Here the brochure:

http://www.arisspa.it/inglese/pdf/ARISGINGL.pdf

With more Bionix coming online, I believe 2-3 hundred M113 could be upgraded with the ARISGATOR oceanic kit and truly boost our RDF's amphibious capability! Mr. Green

Fairyland SG

All this at a time when the IDF is re-considering their Merkava effort according to a 1 Sept 04 issue of JDW.

Apparantly some in IDF thinks they shouldn't be into steel......

STK is Singapore's version of Proton?

tripwire SG

its really stupid to seek amphi capability on our bionix... when we got this.... by the dozens....

http://www.one35th.com/bionix/avlb_spec.htm

Laughing Twisted Evil

observe SG

Those thingy would only be useful for small water obstacle.
But the geog will soon change in about 2-3years time when the causeway is no more.
Mr. Green

gary1910 SG

LOL, are talking abt the awful looking slanted bridge that your govt or rather Dr. M propose ?!? Laughing

First thing , SG do not agree to have such awful looking bridge !!!!

2nd thing, do you read your own MY's newspaper or not?
It was reported recently that the whole project is called off becos of budget problem by your govt!!!!

Third thing, do you really think that the SAF need to have the causeway for the invasion of MY? Laughing

It is stupid to use the causeway becos it will be a chokepoint for us!!!

Go check out the number of type of floating bridges that we have, and lastly our RPL, LSD, FCEP & FCU. ( the last three are all locally made & the numbers are classified), and you will realise that we dun need to have the causeway!!!!!

All we need it just to have our RDF to get the beachhead and the rest will start pouring in via RPL, FCEP & FCU and when it is totally secure even a floating bridge could be constructed if neccessary!!!! Cool Cool

deathscythe99 SG

Merkava! I seriously think that Israel's rethink in their defence policies, esp the Merkavas would see less of the newer mk4 coming in ... and they ARE one of the best.

observe SG

Aha, RDF can only hold a beachhead for a limited period, and they do depend for the main force (the armoured units) to quickly link up with them.

You mentioned various types of landing crafts....but only the RPL is suitable to lift the Bionix and there are only a grand total of 4 Very Happy

The FU/LCU, LCVP/FCEP are not suitable for the Bionixlah. Mr. Green

As for the floating bridge....note it has to be almost 1 km long. How many lanes can be built ?
Compare that to the Causeway that has 6 lanes.

As I say, we shall see the development in the next 1 -2 years. Cool

bcoy SG

Yes, the upgrades have been done - I've been in the vehicle. However, wheeled light armoured vehicles like the V200 are not confined to air-defence roles. The are used by certain infantry and guards units as well.

The wheeled light armoured vehicles provides something better than sitting around in 3/5 tonners. And they add additional firepower to infantry/guards units.

Armoured units will likely to stick to heavier tracked vehicles.

gary1910 SG

Originally posted by observe:

Aha, RDF can only hold a beachhead for a limited period, and they do depend for the main force (the armoured units) to quickly link up with them.

You mentioned various types of landing crafts....but only the RPL is suitable to lift the Bionix and there are only a grand total of [b]4 Very Happy

The FU/LCU, LCVP/FCEP are not suitable for the Bionixlah. Mr. Green

As for the floating bridge....note it has to be almost 1 km long. How many lanes can be built ?
Compare that to the Causeway that has 6 lanes.

As I say, we shall see the development in the next 1 -2 years. Cool [/b]

Do you know that our RDF have their own armoured forces?!? Cool

They could be carry by the FCU which has a capacity for 18 tonnes!!!!! Cool

They will start pouring in with their own AFVs , LSVs etc , easily more than 40-50 vehicles will be landed. They will secure the beachhead.

And you have forgotten that I have mentioned LSD!!!
So after securing the beachhead, the LSD will start to beach & start unloading ,with each LSD could carry abt 38 vehicles including 18 tanks/Bionix!!!

So how many AFVs could we carry ashore????

Do the maths & you will realise that we could easily have more than bde size of armoured force on shore!!!! Cool Cool

As for the floating bridges, when the area is fully secured, even one lane is good enough and if neccessary even two & three bridges could be built!!!!

In the first place as I said, the Bionix are not designed for open sea amphibious assualt, likewise for many IFV/APC.

For Eg, the vanilla M113 has amphibious capability but certainly could not claim to be use for open sea amphibious assualt.

Today only a few truly open sea amphibious assualt armoured vehicles like the AAAV, AAV7A,PT-76, Type-63(Chinese variant of PT-76) & AMX-10 marines variant are open sea capable.

So do not assume that any AFV with amphibious capability means that they could be used in open sea, becos amphibious capability has many classification depending on the water condition, thus many so called amphibious IFV/APC does not means they could be used in open sea , they will be sunk in the rough water!!!!

So for the Bionix vs Terrex debate, SAF frontline armour will not use the Terrex becos of the higher ground pressure of a wheeled AFV, it will have pooer tactical mobility in tropical rain forest as compare to a tracked AFV, the SAF frontline only use the wheeled V-200 for SAM platform.

As for the Terrex amphibious capability, so far there is no report that it is a open sea capable AFV, so your point that the Terrex is better in term of amphibious capability for open sea amphibious assualt is actually not proven.
Since it is not advertise as one, I dun think they could.
Even it is, it will still not be adopted in the armoured forces , at most in the RDF. Becos of different roles thus different needs.

Anyway, Terrex is already out for more than three years & from the start as a private venture by ST as reported, there is no report that SAF is going to adopt it .

esesce SG

Well we can never be sure. Teo Chee Hean did mention before that the SM1 tank's replacement may not be another tank. So it COULD be that they are looking at wheeled AFV with a main tank gun. And the Terrex does have a variant with a 105mm main gun.

gary1910 SG

There is great difference between Terrex and the rest of DSTA/ST/SAF projects, for example the SM1, Bionix,M113 Ultra , Bronco & Primus etc.

There will be a complete news blackout for such projects, announcement will only be made after at least one unit is fully equipped and operational.

Terrex was already been advertised by ST with CGI image even b4 the first prototype was ready for display more than three years ago. Becos it is a private venture by ST, there were no news blackout at all.

Anyway, there is some leaked info on the new light tank from Janes' IDR, go to the new forum for more info.

From the report, I believe that SM1 replacement will certainly be tracked, for whether it will be gun armed, missile armed or hybrid that remain to be seen, but the report seem to pointing toward gun armed.

esesce SG

Where’s the new forum u talked about?

gary1910 SG

Here :

http://s8.invisionfree.com/Military_Nuts/index.php?showtopic=7&st=30

palmerised SG

dang it looks like a stryker!

YI SG

indeed. but it shouldn't be hard to differentiate between the two. Smile

palmerised SG

haha but of course! ours looks so darn smooth..

bleah, anyways, reports say that the stryker isn't really that good an ifv.. they prefer old mr. gavin..

SpecOps87 SG

Siah lahz....wat if the new tank to replace the AMX13SM1 is a half-track?THose are a waste man!!!Woot.... Laughing

Paladin SG

Yes V200 now has turbo chargered diesel engine...
The braking system and the turret power system was also upgraded.

« Previous Page