21st Rapid Deployment Division

last SG · 2004-08-10T00:16:55+00:00

No such area ! maybe , we could do low level airdrop on the highway , this is certainly a large enough clearing for such operation. The NS highway seem larg...

Paladin SG

IMHO Coastel defence up north across the straits of johore can be neutralized with heavy artillery guns from our island.

Secure the 2nd link bridge and causeway and we can move whole ABG across in no time...

Do we really need to insert anything more than a Bdn throught airborne?

Well maybe just heliborne 1 or 2 coy of guards units to secure senai airport?

Joshua1975 SG

If you missed the 1st post 1st 3 line here is it again As i said b4, all those that mention in here can be found in-ter-net. This was back dated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/mindef123/Army.html
Almost 3 years and we have add more things in SAF.

The web has the whole SAF Orbat why not you go tell them delete that page Cool or maybe can report to MSD.

Shotgun SG

What can i say man? I am not sure I find it comfortable to see our whole orbat down to the number of vehicles posted on the net like that.

Do u guys think its right?

lion02 SG

for those who knows, that side is not 100% accurate.
quite alot of sensitive information r not there, or out-dated.

greyskymorning SG

they hv change name again…me was a pioneer there during NSF

Shotgun SG

huH? when was the last time the name was changed???

psykror7 SG

Just for some humour sake, i'd really like to see the expression on the faces of the operators on the 4th level of the airborne training tower carrying equipment load Twisted Evil Since they've been suggested to insert together with the cdo, they will be trained to land as battle-ready as possible (with full-equip), and not scrambling searching for equipment in the vegetation - easy target for picking! (okay la, now got precision equip drop right?).

Those involved with training airborne courses will have their hands full, the training apparatus even more regular maintenance, the air force overseeing drops more headaches and the cdo in their bunks laughing quietly at the ghastly sounds of the non-cdo airborne trainees emanating from the training grounds Mr. Green

On the flip side, more demand for riggers!

lion02 SG

Mr. Green

gary1910 SG

I was busy as well as looking for data for a Lapes operation by a C130, so far I have not found the data for the length for the exact extraction zone for C130, I dun think you know too since you have not seen such operation too.

But I did find a video of a Lapes operation performed by RAAF Caribou, from that video I have timed the entire operation , it take abt 12+ sec descending from treetop level to ascending to tree top level.

The openinng of parachute to the landing of the load is abt 4sec.

Here is where you could find the video(2nd row , 1st col):

http://www.defence.gov.au/raaf/interactive/video.htm

Since it is really not representative to C130 but I believe is abt there , for C130 at 130km/h , 12 sec is abt 433m. So to be on the safe side , let double the time needed for the C130 for such operation , that means abt 866m. ( but I dun think so think such a long time is needed)

Therefore I think for a C130 to perform such operation is abt 1km length for such operation, most probably lower cos I have given a lot leeway.

Originally posted by Joshua1975:
When have all the tankee go for airborne? Guards oso have problem to get this done oredi now you are talking abt operators. why not go serve your NS 1st.

Confused Can never understand why lots of ppl here like to insist on thing when they dun have any facts with them [/b]

You are so restrictive in your thinking, I now tell you guys something that I know, dun ask me abt when , where & what cos I dun want to get into trouble.

I have seen a evaluation of a new AFV by Mindef, and the crew for the AFV were all wearing red berets!!!!

Likewise as you said, Mindef was thinking abt getting the Guard units airborne trained.

Therefore, it is not unthinkable to have tankee to be airborne trained or commando to operate AFVs. It has been done before!!!!!!

As for whether they have implemented it , also dun ask me. Cool

What I was saying is that having a specialised airborne AFV crew for a specialised airborne armour asset has been evaluated before by SAF & it has been done by many armies!!!

Just like what they did for 7 SIR in the 70s when they convert infantry unit to Guards, specially trained infantry to Heli-borne, and you now have Guards units.

lion02 SG

friend, certain information u know just keep it to yourself lah.....

but have another though, having a Bn night drop with AFVs... the damn drop zone will kana like.... mass orgy.

psykror7 SG

you're such a disappointment.... the things you'll say to lend your case. I sure hope you do not/will not hold a position of responsibility in the armed forces. I won't trust you one bit.

Lion02's right. Yes, AFV day/night drop capability, IMO if under orders, can be done. For cdo, anything realistic can be done. But think of the feasibility in terms of deployment logistics, the scale, control and surprise element of the operation to be effective in a (presumbly) corvert mission, if going along the lines of cdo ops.

And if the personnel are airborne trained tankees, i'm quite sure they won't appreciate your suggestion if they're due for ART (Airborne Refresher Training) though that can't be helped if it happens. If the powers that be decides so, there will be airborne tankees... i'm sure their judgement will be a matter of hot debate.

Ahh... the joys of ART and landing on your rifle handgrip.

gary1910 SG

It is well known fact that SAF or any other armies conduct evaluation on all kind weaponary from various countries regularly.

All I have disclosed is just that airborne trained AFV operator were once doing so, nothing abt the actual AFV or anything else, it is only a evaluation not the orbat. Thus nothing classified has been disclosed.

As for airborne armoured asset, this is not something that has not be done in other army, for example the Sheridan and recently 82nd felt that they need more armour & firepower for their operation since the retirement of Sheridan thus requested to have the number of old prototype M8 inducted into their units becos they have a real operational need for them. Those who are familiar with M8 should know abt it.

In this case , I am not suggesting a surprise covert commando strike operation to use a AFV .

But what I am suggesting a AFV to support Heli borne RDF, I once said what if the amphi AMX-10s are not available for them during operation, the best way is to either Heli borne or airborne deployable AFVs to support them.

A heli borne deployable type AFV will be very light weight = very little armour thus low in survivability. LSV might even be better.

A airborne deployable type AFV will be heavier thus more armour for survivability and also better firpower.

As for arguing a case, I was just suggesting possibilities.
In fact it is just a natural evolution for RDF or other any units, more capability will be inducted into it as time go by, as technology improve as well as the need to expand capability.

Eg. 7 SIR into 1st Guard.... till today RDF with all the heli borne asset, it is really unthinkable for a future airborne armour asset ???

Especially our neighbour are getting more armour asset!!!

rancour5 SG

funnily euf..when i was nsf..there was such a rumour gg on abt cmdo tankees and tt only regulars were involved...

anyway i thot the amx10s go under hq armour banner which is XX div instead of 21 div?

quivalen SG

the epitome of the 'shag face'. ;-p

riggers - blech! Neutral [/img]

Joshua1975 SG

LAPES low altitude- we're talking really low altitude. Passes are made at about 2 to 10 feet off the ground. It's done at high speed too, around 130 knots.
Pls if you have no idea what C130 is, at least read what you give us http://www.parachutehistory.com/military/lapes.html 130kmh and 130knh is so much diff you know or not? 866m??? ask any CDO in here what is the DZ for them to drop 15 man than you come back ok. FYI the whole DZ is made up 2 X BZ or some call it SZ and 1 X DZ. No need to seach any more as I say you cannot find military air traffic related subject on net.

Seen? Yah you seen, when I giving the excution comand, excute, excute, excute. You were playing with your new gameboy. Dun come in here by heard say from this and that than say you seen. FYI again, the 1st Guards BN was not from any SIR. This you can find in-ter-net.

Joshua1975 SG

Someone had bring out the ACTS reguarding the post in this and some other topics. Pls read below... some point are to make known and some points are kept for a reason/s

Exclamation Some points had been bring up again and again and it had not been reply or avoided and some ppl just dun understand and keep on drill on it.

Twisted Evil It is clear that line had been draw for that point or 2. It oni show _____ on that person.

Idea I like to say again to those who has not serve, yet to serve or had serve but know little, pls get your FACTS (if you can, the correct way) before post any reply here for the due respect to the guys who had and has to serve right now and of cause also to avoid you yourself from any embarrassment in-ter-net.

gary1910 SG

LOL, I have been to the camp when they were still called themselves 7 SIR in the early 80s, enuff said !!!!

As for airborne trained AFV operators, I am not the only one to say that .

You tot becos you once a regular, you will know everything, that is something called need to know, thus if are you not, you will not be given the knowledge.

This is how SAF operated , everyone know that!!!
Therefore how the hell will u know abt things happens in an armour camp since you not in there? They purposefully tell u huh???? Laughing

When I was in the army, you are the one still playing gameboy!!!!
I already ROD twice, and u still in there, so please dun assume!!!! Cool
When I was young, there were only marbles and spiders!!!! What's gameboy????

As I said, you are so retrictive in your thinking that you cannot think out of the box, SOP evolved as time goes by, you are stuck in one!!!

I hope not everyone in the army is like you, otherwise SAF will never grow! Very Happy

I am now not interested to have any discussion with a big kid like you.

erijazz SG

double post Mr. Green

gary1910 SG

Some ppl tot he know everything & become overbearing!!!! Exclamation

bcoy SG

Wrong -

1st Guards were formed from SAPGU (1977)
2nd Guards were formed from 8SIR (1978 )
3rd Guards were formed from 7SIR (1980)

Check MINDEF's website

I was from 1st Guards. I was around when 21Div was first formed as well.

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