RSN Expansion ieas

last SG · 2004-07-20T13:11:17+00:00

Careful leh..argentina doesn't have any immediate threats other then Britain ...so whether they use spitfire or A-4 to patrol oso no problem ours leh..1 is...

|-|05| SG

what makes u think we dont have secret bases on our many islands?and our planes frm overseas provides us with a 2nd strike ability.

Anyway im beginning to doubt ST Marine's quality of ships...after that incident...whether how thick is the steel inside the ship etc etc...

honestly there is not much need for thick armour anymore.....gone are the days where thick armour will save ur ass.......with modern missiles that wont help much i mean these is the day of the bunker busters man! nothing is save anymore!.ECM is a better bet.

SibeiSuayKia SG

ECM doesn't work 100% and A-MM doesn't always hit the missile

The last bet would be a ARMOR , if u got thicker armor , more lifes saved , thin armor more pple die

using a M1 Abrams and a Bionix as a example ,
which tank would u prefer to sit inside in time of a war?

A M1 tanks in which has been tested with RPG 7 and Bullets and cannons

or a locally built ST Bionix 17.5 tonnes newbie?

i'll take the M1 Tank , thank you =) just compare the thickness of the armor!

anyway the delta frigates are definitely going to be made of plastics..

anyway i believe the bionix was build to counter rifle shots and pistol fire
and not for countering RPG -7 ...

Anyone here did a TESTING of RPGs on Bionix?
care to share a little of the results?

my bet would be the rpg would completely vaporize the bionix

Paladin SG

I think we are over paranoid about the Astros. Yes there is no doubt about its fire power.

If MY really wanna wack us they are likely to be moblizing other assets and troops together with the Astros which is unlikely to go undetected.
Don't forget we have people watching them 24/7.
By the time the Astros get into their firing range, our F16s and AH64s will already be in the air waiting for Astro's first strike which will expose their exact location. If our boys in the RSAF do their job well it will also be the Astros's last strike.. Mr. Green

Instead of aircraft carrier I would rather spend the money on new submarines with the capability to launch AGM84E SLAM or SLAM-ER harpoons. That should take care of your needs for the 2nd strike capability Wink

Orcishwarrior SG

I believe currently RSN should focus on getting hands on with the operation of submarine and hopefully new ships can be acquired soon. I dont feel easy with the possible adversary having more larger and sophisticated submarine.
Submarine has time and again proven that its the TOP predator in an open sea combat especially engaging in underwater guerilla and...............

Jazzswing SG

Hold a squadron? A squadron providing a 2nd strike capability? You got to be joking. The only true way to defend against a strike at airbases or airfields is to pre-empt them. Hit them before they get it off. Once you lost the control of the skies, don't talk about second strike capability you've lost the momentum.

Jazzswing SG

More thick armour makes ships heavier, heaver ship needs more power and better engines. And the result? More money. And also, so what if there is more armour? It's just like building thicker hulls for aircraft so that crushes will not be that bad. How thick can your armour go? It might protect the ship, its crew, but once a ship suffers a direct hit from a missile, it is hardly combat effective anymore. I think it is wiser to use the money to build more ships, not invest on armour.

And why compare an M-1 with a Bionix? The Abrams is a main battle tank while the Bionix is an IFV. Rolling Eyes Why not a the Bionix with the Bradley?

Rpg 'completely vaporize' Bionix? The most it cld do is immobilise it.

Paladin SG

I will be LOL with u if its 300 hundred malaysian robbers that make their way to Pulau Ubin..
How can 3 robbers causes u to have doubt upon Spore's capability?

Did u know that there are about a few hundred thousands of illegal Indonesian immigrants in Malaysia? Most of these people just take boats from Sumatra and travel across the straits of malacca undetected... so can we also conclude that Malaysia is impotent?

Thanks for enlightening me that spy satellites are only for nuclear facilities. Mr. Green

Did I mention UAV in my previous post? Question

I also did not say that our people are specifically watching over their Astros 24/7. I am refering to whole MY. Their airforce ,navy and army.
If there is any unsual troops movement in the north, our SAF will know and act accordingly.

FYI we are also been watched by MY 24/7. Mr. Green

SibeiSuayKia SG

please lor ...

its either UAV or Spy satellites or spy planes...

cannot be spy satellite so has to be UAV to monitor them
unless we got spies..which is impossible

eh just tell u something

RPG can only imbolize bionix?
dun say joke leh..

M1 Abrams more heavier which means more steel inside..
also kana immobilize and hit badly..

Bionix is so lightly armoed just 1 RPG confirmed vaporize..

anyway u got tested RPG-7 on the bionix b4?
dun tok cock lar Twisted Evil

if armor really sucks man ...den why so much fuss about our unarmored LSV?

mights well equip a bofors gun to a tibs bus and bring it to other countries for war??hahaha....

please lor the time when u ENTER into a battle you would wish u were sitting inside M1 Abrams..enuf said..i don't wanna sit into a bionix and enter into a
battle that is if i have a choice..

its the same...the day which u have to take out ur pistol for a fight is the day u wished u had a rifle with u

please lor at stop talking cock la...if they just build 1 base at JB...how to scramble? 3 seconds after take off reach here liao hahahahahahah

maybe AWAC might work but ley ..AWAC only detect air and not sea...and land....the methods u are mentioning here might be unconventional lor like spies? lol

definitely disagree lor...our AWACs can't stay flying every day lol...Scramble oso at least take 5 minutes, ( pple are not so dumb to atk during working hours)

if sleeping at air force base prolly 5 minutes scrambling time is ok bah..

if conventional lets say take 15 minutes to drive to reach air base
and get ready and if the plane cruise at Mach 1.5 or 1600km/hour lets say la...about 300km from us

if AWACs detect at 200km away... and give alert at when the plane reach about 160km away , that means less then 6 minutes gotta reach up to skies and counter attack , and by then the place which they will be engaging will be above SG Skies ! and lets say if the AWACs were flying somewhere around Malacca' strait or wherever and nowadays planes can cruise at Mach 2 without problems with external fuel tanks

That means if conventional take 15 minutes to arrive la....
that means 9 minutes behind time..

anyway most likely the base will be located at JB..lol

aiyah lemme tell u wad...sponsor every fighter pilot 1 porsche so can scramble
audi is too slow liao!!

LazerLordz SG

...your rambling all over the shop.AWACs can fly 24hours.If not why do countries invest in them?All you need is to allocate an overlapping schedule.

SibeiSuayKia SG

i meaning scrambling jet fighters

i thought AWACs don't fly on grave yard timings?
o.O maybe i was wrong..pai seh

Paladin SG

Watching does not mean really "see" them.

Which country will fly UAV over another country during peace time? SAF is not so crazy yet.

Intelligence is not limited to satellites and spy plane. "Watching" in military intelligence can also refer to listening.
Unusual high communication traffic on their military net can be fishy and mean something.

I can't tell u much because I also don't know the details but I'm pretty sure that there are groups of people in the SAF covering that area. Listening to MY's military net 24/7.

SibeiSuayKia SG

now i know wad is Electronic defense mean…thx..

Jazzswing SG

SibeiSuayKia amuses me. Laughing Rolling Eyes

ferret69 SG

Building a warship is an exercise in engineering and if you've never encountered engineering issues before here's the deal. Engineering is an exercise in compromises. Nobody these days works with unlimited funds unless you're working for Marvel Comic's S.H.I.E.L.D organisation. So we can chuck out any solutions with nuclear-powered powerplants and stick with diesel turbine engines.

Let's do a review of your emphasis on armor.
More armor = more mass on a ship

As any physics guy will know,
more mass = need more power to drive that thing and maneuver

more power = bigger/more efficient/more powerful engines/powerplants

Also since you're carrying more weight and need more power, it's safe to assume it should consume more fuel than a less armored warship of similar size and same powerplant.

more fuel = more space needed to put in fuel = less space for weapons and personnel and other cool stuff you need to make war = less capable ship.

Since we're assuming missile attacks which can cut any thickness of armor down to size, the best compromise is to make the hull just a little more thick enough for structural integrity for operational parameters. Or at least make the "armor" thick enough to withstand small arms fire.

All these are factors which are addressed by engineers and designers. Navies deliver specs; designers deliver a design based on specs and engineers do the hardwork of trying to figure out the actual implementation from the designs. And all have to be within the Navy's budget.

From my very simplified analysis, armor doesnt work. The only credible implementation I can think of to increase warship safety when hit by a missle is to have a double hull, a lot of compartmentalisation, and a crew which is highly trained in damage control just like they do in Typhoon class submarines.

SibeiSuayKia SG

If armor don't work den ask SWAT team dun wear bullet proof vest lor..
since more energy needed and more strength and it hinders down the speed.

listening to MY's military net 24/7??

lol didn't know our ISD pple can listen and speak malay lol

Paladin SG

ISD? What ISD?

Did u know Malay is our National Language? If we can train pilots and commandos, how difficult it is to train ppl to listen and speak our national language? lol...

SibeiSuayKia SG

Eh this is sgforums not my forums...

oi u wrong frequency la

our national language is ENGLISH Btw.
and btw commandos don't learn malay

CX SG

dunno why leh... since the regulars left, a lot of pple talking cock around here... Rolling Eyes

singapore's NATIONAL language is officially, MALAY.

that is why drill commands are given in MALAY.

but ALL FOUR languages spoken by the 4 main races are recognised. that is why, on national day, u have broadcast with voice-overs in FOUR languages on different channels.

singapore's language of ADMINISTRATION, is ENGLISH.

think before u post... Rolling Eyes its all nonsense from u so far.

branzzz SG

sibeisuaykia, you're one big cock-talker. cannot train our guys in SIGINT to speak malay? even my chinese parents can speak malay. beside, even though they're malaysia, they also not as stupid as you to use malay in their military network. why do police wear bullet proof vests? because bullets can do damage to them. why don't ships have substantial armour? sorry ah, the battleship age was like 50years ago. missles of today are designed to do a pop-up manouvere before hitting the top or the superstructure of the ship, which would be super impractical to armour against missles. i guess only in your dreams could windows withstand an exocet's huge warhead. yes, awacs can stay airborne for a very long time, and with rotating shifts there is coverage 100% of the time, and that exactly is the reason why RSAF didn't get any fewer than 4 hawkeyes. oh, and yes, awacs can and do track sea and surface targets. how do you think the fokker 50s can fire their over the horizon harpoon missles? bionix get hit by an rpg will be destroyed? you think mindef is some dumb cock ah? doyou even know what rpg stands for? its a rocket-propelled-GRENADE. if it hits a blackhawk's rotors, definatly will crash, but pls, a bionix? an ARMOURED-personel-carrier getting destroyed by a rpg? no way. and if you're thinking why armour a bionix and don't heavily armour a ship, you obviously can't compare shells and rpgs to harpoon missles.

personally, one thing the RSN should look into and try to get is a sea based airborne attack unit. just like what the royal navy is doing by making the apache fully sea capable.

CX SG

Originally posted by branzzz:
bionix get hit by an rpg will be destroyed? you think mindef is some dumb cock ah? doyou even know what rpg stands for? its a rocket-propelled-GRENADE.

just to be objective, i don't think its absolutely impossible... its not just a grenade... its a HEAT warhead...

bionix stands a fighting chance against it cos of the armour design... dun think its open domain so lets not talk about it...

but in wartime, murphy's law applies so i think if u hit the right spot enough, u can score a mobility kill and then move in to slowly take it apart... thats bad enough already.

if it hits a blackhawk's rotors, definatly will crash, but pls, a bionix? an ARMOURED-personel-carrier getting destroyed by a rpg? no way. and if you're thinking why armour a bionix and don't heavily armour a ship, you obviously can't compare shells and rpgs to harpoon missles.

yup... its not impossible... trash the tracks, then slowly maul it to pieces. M113 is an ARMOURED personel carrier also... its well known that it can only withstand small-arms fire... up to 7.62mm...

with ships, i agree with u... u're better off making them smaller, stealthier and faster and armed with more missiles on each one...

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