RSN Expansion ieas

last SG · 2004-07-20T13:11:17+00:00

Careful leh..argentina doesn't have any immediate threats other then Britain ...so whether they use spitfire or A-4 to patrol oso no problem ours leh..1 is...

foxtrout8 SG

trouble maker? as in?
Ban me hahaha? for doing military speculation?
if u were doing that in real life i would sue you for defamation
under the singapore's judiciary system

Im real and this is life. So try sueing me.

Read
Libel or slander "per se" is a defamatory statement made about a subject that, taking the words alone, is so offensive that the law will presume that it caused harm to the subject without any proof that the statement actually caused harm. It is defamation per se to make libelous or slanderous comments about a persons business or professional character or reputation. The subject need not prove that such comments actually caused him to lose customers or business; rather the law will presume that he was harmed. (Saying "Fred stole money from the companys petty cash box" may be defamation even if Fred cannot prove that he was demoted or lost his job because of the statement.)

Am i accusing you? The very fact that you are creating trouble and alot of unhappiness here make you a trouble maker and I dun have the liberty to say that? Did i cause harm to you by saying that u are a trouble maker but in fact you aint one? Look at the above posts, the very fact that you cause trouble allow me to name you a troublemaker. The very fact that a killer kill someone allow others to call him a killer, he cant sue anyone with that.

Under the SG forums commandments
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I , SibeiSuayKia, member of the Sgforums do declare as at July 31st 2004 that i have not violated or intentionally any of the SG forums setted by moderators as of 1999. If i have offend anyone unknowingly and subconsciously, please do accept my humble apologies

You are contridicting yourself. If you will to challenge me and want to sue me in real life, why plea for others to accept your humble apologies? Not sincere yeah?

You did not do anything illegal however the very fact that you are prone to comment irresponsibly on things in which you are unsure of. Your ignorants and arrogance agitates kind souls who repeatedly try to explain things to you.

SibeiSuayKia SG

Nope im just stating the laws..
hopefully we as a lawful citizen..won't breach the law..
just reminding someone to keep quiet..
and stop internet defamation..

and btw..that would be whatever that would happen to someone
like for example the "oei hong leong" defamation case..

And btw it wasn't targeting at you
unless your guilty of something? LOL

nah pals we're all singaporeans
but just share different views with regards to military

Some like it china manner
some like it india manner
some wanna do it the American manner

China's manner is to overwhelm enemy in last time history..by sending hundreds of thousands of troops

USA's manner is to plan carefully and strike key positions and using major force multipliers on the battlefield and using extremely high tech equipment to maintain it's position as best military in the world

Singapore's manner is to use technologically effectively to make up for shortfall of troops

My view is more of pro-american maybe? the concept i was speaking was a
D-Day sort of thing..

and btw americans in general love law alot and thats why they wanna sue here sue there =) =p

foxtrout8 SG

im talking about heavier bombs like GBU stuffs

Guided bombs may and may not be heavy bombs. They could range from 500 pounds to 2000pounds.

im considering 1 or 2 bombs after the fuselage need to carry missiles guns ..
and lotsa stuffs

I have seen A-4SU carrying multiple bomb racks, definately not one or two depending on the weight of the bomb.

the 4 Harriers if effectively deployed with other RSAF fighters could turn other navies into a sitting duck like pearl harbor..

If 4 Harriers have to be deployed with other RSAF fighters, must as well rely totally on RSAF fighters?

it reinforces the concept of a mini aircraft carrier..
just look at the sheer amount of power by just a few CBG in the iraq war..

You know how much a light carrier cost? You know how much a carrier fleet cost? You know how much the political consequence cost?

4 Harrier..if carry good munitions and if catch the enemy sleeping..
could preempt and can down alot of warships

As far as im concern, the take off weight for a harrier to VTOL is much smaller than a A-4SU. If you are saying that the A-4SU cant carry much, then Harrier is not a plane for you.

we could also use the Harrier II to weak down enemy's installations BEFORE doing the dropping of commandos and guards..

F-16s from Tengah airbase or in the future cruisemissile from Frigates can do the job.

The LST itself is also a logistic ships..in the Gulf War II it has helped to refuel aircraft and ships..so.. i think not much help other then search and rescue and anti subwarfare..

The LST have multiple roles, it can be a hospital ship, command ship, amphibious ship, logistic ship, replenisher...etc.

HALI SG

shuff it up ur *** Question si liao lau bei go some somewhere else and cry, you should be happy that he no longer shuff it up ur*** but should feel sad as suayness will follow you till your last day on earth.

Below that mark out are from hear say, books, or TV and he say that himself all the time.

branzzz SG

internet defamation? noone here needs to defame you. you just did us that favour yourself. hahahahaha. i love reading this thread just to see what a stupid incompentent blabbering idiot you are. oh, and please please please, sue me.

LazerLordz SG

SibeiSuayKia, you are free to post whatever you wish, but remember that this is a forum, and any thing you post will get a reply of sorts.Take them in good faith, if you disagree, back up with your proof or evidence.If you cannot take others commenting on your posts, then go find some obscure Zimbabwean publishing house, publish them and marvel over your own genius in the comfort of your living room. Twisted Evil

SibeiSuayKia SG

Its simply crazy ...full loading the A4-SU with bombs with no eyes that means bombs that hit anywhere in the country..might kill some civilians

with bombs..the A4 gets tougher to fly..because of the weight..with bombs you also need to carry more fuel tanks due to more power needed..

with all those stuff..the A-4 is definitely unable to defend itself..

A Fully loaded A4-SU without bombs would leave very little stuff for bombs..
i read up and the 1 or 2 smart bomb considering u use each 2000 pounds
don't forget if carry max payload ..the plane might sometimes not be able to take it

my suggestion would be a few AIM-9X + double cannon..
and 1 or 2 smart bomb satellite guidance

My 2.4km timing 9minute and half niah..
haiz so long never exercise actually should be blow that =p

Rely totally?

Nah i was in the C-130 as a flight all over singapore..just like to loiter around the door ROFL...saw parts of marina south..and sentosa..

A4-SU cannot carry multiple bomb rack if u equip it with other weapons and fuel tanks..that if it a trouble happens and A4-SU might need to defend itself when enemy planes come

Considering we left with 2000 pounds after equipping with cannons+ double tanks and missiles..

each bomb is 1000 pounds..this make perfect equation

War Scenario 1
what if RSAF's airstrip ALL kana destroy..(there might be a narrow possibility)
and u have 12 Harriers II left with advanced avionics available..hidden all over in HDB's ..the 12 Harriers II could actively engage the enemies WHILE u repair the airstrip..sure the 12 Harrier II may not be that good..considering u need 3 hours to repair..u can fight and chase them off..while the airstrip get repaired..
the hangar might be damage considering that we use hardened air shelter..

oh ya i tested the SAR-21 at point blank

the 1st 1 was M-16 at 100 metre..no point blank moving targets quite fast

LST can do alot of jobs thats why we need not use the helicopter for those jobs...we also might try equiping 2 LST side by side 1 with harrier 1 with helicopters..

War Scenario 2

Combined country fleet attack us..together with warplanes..RSAF planes overstretched even though operationally ready..airplanes coming from down and south..KC-135 all fully deployed..and the fuel inside is almost used up.
Commandos,Guards all requesting for bombardment of a coast in a hostile country before landing..helicopter from LST unable to do the job..since under-equipped and built for sub operations.

2 Steps to take..either use helicopter to clear the shore..(ignoring the existence of the 20 apaches which has been used to counter the massive amount of enemies coming from southern islands)
people decides to use the helicopter..with a door-machine gun and decides to pound the coast using the fixed gun inside the copter

enemy's coastal defense spots helicopter..fires missile and igla at it..
helicopter..being slower and lower in altitude compared to other fighter jets..
get shot down

Harrier II takes off with MK-82 bombs
and AGM-65 mavs..moves 9 o clock towards target..at mach 1..
drops off the MK-82 bombs..hit successfully onto target..
saw a few tanks hiding..together with tankers..engage with AGM-65 using IR
(Air-ground missile)AGM note that..

guards and commandos arrive after 15 minutes of pounding in fast speed boats..

just take a look at the awe and power

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/harrier/harrier3.html

The problem is..we must always prepare for PLAN B!
and we might not get F-35..i suggest we get EuroFighter+12 harrier II

if they disturb us...we can use the 12 Harriers II to destroy them. like in true lies..

i might be talking crap to you all now
but i love my country..Singapore ! thats why we must be prepared !
RSAF was built to bite rather then to defend

with lets say 4 harriers on 2 LST ...travel up the northern coast..

we can attack from the top..and if we got a aircraft carrier LAGI BEST
foreign aircraft coming back to singapore can park on the aircraft carrier =X

we can attack from the LST and from the southern part thus creating a double prong..lets say AIRFIELD DOWN

planes coming from our other countries arrive as backup..the pilots would be DAMN tired..our 12 harriers II can handle for 12 hours while they rest..

then the F-16 which is parked on other countries would take over once the harrier pilots get tired

foxtrout8 SG

The take off weight of a A-4SU is larger than a Harrier prepared for VTOL. If you are saying that with the bombs, the A-4 get tougher to fly, it goes the same with the Harriers.

A Fully loaded A4-SU without bombs would leave very little stuff for bombs..
i read up and the 1 or 2 smart bomb considering u use each 2000 pounds
don't forget if carry max payload ..the plane might sometimes not be able to take it

As i said, the take off weight of the A-4 is larger than the Harrier. No point toking about how little a A-4 can carry and suggest a harrier. Btw, you had seem to forgot totally about our F-16s, what make you think that we wont send them..

A4-SU cannot carry multiple bomb rack if u equip it with other weapons and fuel tanks..that if it a trouble happens and A4-SU might need to defend itself when enemy planes come

Comeon, in any CAS operation, there will be escorting figthers. What make you so sure that your harriers dun have to defend itself or what make you sure that your harriers can defend itself much better? Any CAS fighter will lose out to Figthers delicated to wipe them off....

My point is even with harriers or with A-4SUs, you still need figther cover. Thus why propose an aircraft which is much expensive than the A-4SU and yet carry a lower weight. Since our A-4SUs can do a better job and air cover is always required, let it be.

SibeiSuayKia SG

The problem is..which general is going to risk it all
by not arming the A4-SU with AIM-9X and stuffs

i rather they carry 1 or 2 JDAM smart bombs which hit the target rather den 10 to 20 bombs which spread over target..if miss might kill some innocent pple
the SAF is not a merciless killing force..if it is..then it would have lost it's principle in the 1st place

Furthermore, even though there may be escorts , there may be alot of problems when it comes to escort..the formation might need to break up sometimes to engage enemies coming from different directions

when the fighter escorts..say F-16 engaging up 12 o clock north faces
threats from 3 and 9 o clock at a similar timing ...the A4-SU might need to defend itself..

F-16 will be used for bigger missions..of course =)
But im thinking that the F-16 will go first in the event of a conflict to maintain aerial superiority

A4-SU and Harrier II..which 1 better?

A-4 has not seen any major conflicts since Falklands war..
but Argentinian A-4 has managed to fire a missile onto a british warship..causing severe damage

A4-concept was in 1950+
whereelse Harrier II ...is in 1970+ same age as F-16 and F-18
IMHO A-4 should have been phrased out due to it's weak airframe and inability to pull Gs.. even though with advanced avionics

it is the equivalent of upgrading a WWII Spitfire aircraft with ability to fire AIM-120 AMRAAM

The Harrier II is better then the A4-SU is many aspects..
for example the Harrier II does not require runways.

Just imagine..if a guerilla group manage to steal a Harrier II jet and operate it against the police force in the area..

They can VTOL ... hit and run... come out from hidden locations..conduct ambushes..

The most significant edge is indeed still VTOL , i must stress..
Helicopters are also VTOL ... but why a fighter jet VTOL?

It combines many platforms together..and also boosts the concept..of defending singapore..we must be prepared for many scenarios..one of which enemy might attack and destroy runways and remember nothing is 100%

as i have highlighted in my above war scenario 1..it is indeed crucial for VTOL even as for a naval aircraft or a RSAF plane..

If it is not crucial..why even F-35 SVTOL variants in the first place?

The Harrier II in simple terms..has easy take off and landing as a helicopter
but PACKS the punch of a fighter plane.

The Harrier II may be weaker and require CAS..but one should not ignore the ability of it..

Like a guerilla warfare machine..Lets push our scenario back to southern islands of singapore..

If the main runways are gone..(ignore the usage of highways for tengah jets)
the southern islands are TOO small to have any..stretched run way for F-16 or A4-Su..

solution? get the Harrier II ASAP...

eurofighter SG

Our A-4SUs can be armed with Paveway LGBs and Mavericks for precision AG missions and not as you think only free-fall/dumb bombs.
Saying that an A-4 cant pull Gs is purely rubbish. I believe RSAF skyhawks' air frame have been strengthen during upgrades carried out.
Hell, the brazillians got their A-4s from kuwait for thair sao pulo carrier not too long ago. I believe IDF/AF is still using their A-4s though not in frontline service.

tspg SG

OMG.... I dun know whether to laugh Laughing or cry Crying or Very sad after reading the 7 pages. Has the disease spread from Speakers Corner. Some young bots here think they can be military expert or planners after reading the Jane Defence Weekly. I hope none of you are of SAF/ President scholar calibre.

Please respect the old vets here because they have been there, done that and they know more than you. Respect them and they will respect you. Be humble in seeking their opinion.

Back to the original topic.

SAF currently has a edge over its potential adversaries. I dun think there is a need to increase the gap further. If we were to increase our military spending drastically, our neighbours will do the same. An arms race will benefit nobody in the region.

Unless Singaporeans are prepare to eat grass like North Korean peasants, I dun see why we shd pour so much resouces into building such a mean military machine.

Our country's reserves is accumulated from the hard work of your grandfathers, fathers and young peasants like me. Please dun ask for money to buy expensive toys again.

With that I conclude.

Thank you.

foxtrout8 SG

Lets not forget that the Black Knights use the classic A-4 for performing demanding stunts., Thus i believe the A-4SU can pull Gs of course, however how many Gs it can pull..., will be a tentative question.

Despite the fact that the A-4SU cant pull the amount of Gs that an F-16 can pull, the A-4 is still a fine aircraft for her trade. If we will to look into the requirements of a CAS aircraft, the A-4SU dont not need to pull such demanding Gs as required for a Figther aircraft in dogfight. What we need, is a small aircraft capable of carrying a large load (relative to her size), have huge endurance in both range and loitering capability. The A-4 have it all.

SibeiSuayKia SG

i got a close friend who works with A4-SU and he told me all about the A4-SU

F-16 can pull 9 Gs...the A-4 is much much lesser
the airframe has not changed abit..at all..it doesn't have a aerodynamic shape

i know how hard it is to accumulate those foreign reserves =)

If we don't use the $$ to defend our country
by that time comes..the other country will be using our foreign reserves
what im thinking is very simple , what u can't defend..you don't own..

Arms Race? There is already one going on..
no harm defending our country..make it a secret purchase =D

some things u can chose to announce..some..you don't have to =)

tspg SG

Are you implying currently SAF is unable to defend SG ?

SibeiSuayKia SG

Nope =)

There are many cases of A-4 wings being damaged after going high Gs..

Its a SAF slogan

"What you can't defend , you don't own"

i have no doubts about our military capability..
But due to hightening tensions..

China and taiwan is going to be the next flashpoint in Asia.
If USA+Taiwan is going to invade China..
we will be stucked..both is our good ally

Singapore will play a important role as it can choose to allow US ships to come in from the middle east..or to AID china by..not allowing them to park instead ..with no supplies..note that there is not many bases currently catering to US naval ships..

Singapore..FYI is one of the key "cards" in SEA , why? our base has a good infrastructure for thier Carrier..we offer them good facilities..We basically..in terms of relationship...closer to USA then malaysia or indonesia..

By having a larger force..we could be a more Non-Aligned status..when it comes..and more neutral..more pple will respect us like Switzerland..

If we choose to support China..USA will definitely not be happy with us..and might seriously hurt the relationship

If we support USA , China might pre-empt SG as well as TW..cause they might see us as siding with Taiwan now..whatever we say is useless by our foreign ministries..they don't even believe that it is unofficial..it is as though we are lying..why they would pre-empt?

-US ships will be unable to have access to proper facilities
-Also unable to use SG as a staging point against them..
-Ships coming from the middle east would have problems
-by having more weapons is a definite cause..

Those 2 have a high possibility of conflict when it comes to taiwan
Note that China is going to be far more powerful then Soviet Union..
under new brains and with much more populations and more advanced weapons taken from Russia

|-|05| SG

A4-concept was in 1950+
whereelse Harrier II ...is in 1970+ same age as F-16 and F-18
IMHO A-4 should have been phrased out due to it's weak airframe and inability to pull Gs.. even though with advanced avionics

it is the equivalent of upgrading a WWII Spitfire aircraft with ability to fire AIM-120 AMRAAM

The Harrier II is better then the A4-SU is many aspects..
for example the Harrier II does not require runways.

Just imagine..if a guerilla group manage to steal a Harrier II jet and operate it against the police force in the area..

They can VTOL ... hit and run... come out from hidden locations..conduct ambushes..

The most significant edge is indeed still VTOL , i must stress..
Helicopters are also VTOL ... but why a fighter jet VTOL?

haiz....
the harrier can stay vertical for no more then 30 secs during it's entire flight time so it is highly impossible for a bunch of ppl to use it as a hit and run platform.This is due to the fact that the engine has to be cooled by WATER while it is in vertical flight and
Next up...the A4 pulls 6+G's and the AV8B pulls 8+G's.
Take off weight of the AV8B is maxed at around 14,000kg and it's max vertical take off weight is around 9,400kg while it's normal max take off is 14,000. It's empty weight is around 6,700kg.It's max internal fuel load is around 3,500. doing some maths with it's max internal fuel load u get 9,400-6,700-3,500=-800....meaning u cannot take of vertically with max fuel.So let's say we half that u get 950kg!!!Enough for 1 2000lbs(ard 900kg)bomb!!Let's say u give it a clean STOL take off using max fuel and max take off weight u get 14,000-6,700-3,400=3900kg or 4 bombs and maybe 1 or 2 Aim-9's
Now we look at the A4M. Max take off weight is around 11,500kg.It's weight is around 4,700 empty.Since i cannot find out how much it's max fuel weight is ill assume it is the same as the AV8B to give it a fair guess. That's 3,500. So we have 11,500-4,700-3,500=3300kg or around 3 bombs and 2 Aim-9's.

Max range is 277km for the harrier and 3,307km for the A4

Oh wait i just found some good stats for a better comparasion rather then my lame maths Laughing
AV8B
7711 kg (17,000 lb) or VTO total of 3175 kg (7,000 lb) of weapons on 6 hard points
A4
2268 kg of weapons on 5 hardpoints.
i think this is for the standard load becuz i'm sure the A-4 can carry more if it had less fuel. Also this is the standard A4 and not our A4SU which i think has better engines and thus carrying ability.

So far most websites have this to say.
The AV8B and the British Pegasus(which is better) are CAS planes and usually is best used with 120km range and with 12 MK82 bombs with 1 drop tank and 1 hr flight time.For CAP it usually is loaded up with 200km range and 4 Aim9's and 2 Aim120's

My personal Opinion
The Harrier is a good CAS plane with it's STOL and VTOL capabilites.However it's range is extermely limited and it's role is way way to specialize for it to be cost effective for us.So i think buying it will not be good since it is going to be replaced by the JSF which we mayb get anyway.The A4 is an old bird...and has served us really well in the early days as a CAP plane and now as a CAS plane.Though it may not have the VTOL ability of the harrier it's longer range(thus longer loiter time) is great for us as it make it easier for us to keep the plane in the bloody air instead of landing it to refuel like the harrier.The harrier if it has to keep landing will then have to either use up it's stores or carry up less....ALOT less.Either that or refuel in the air which i think wont be as good becuz it's not very efficient.Since the A4's are going to be replaced by the NGF's with the F-16's taking over the role of CAS,i see no reason to get the harrier at all.

Anyway back on topic
The LST's are used at support ships and what not.So having choppers on them wld be alot better then having harriers on them since the RSAF can provide all the air cover needed.If it cannot then we're screwed anyway.

LazerLordz SG

I have to say that this is one of your better posts.You are right, Singapore and Malaysia are the wildcards in any East Asian conflict for we control the Straits of Malacca and the airspace that stretches across the Spratlys.Our countries' naval power can project till the Spratlys and the Indian Ocean.Who we choose to align ourselves then will be important and we should be wise to decide carefully.Much as we want, we cannot stay neutral because that right to status of alignment will be decided by powers greater than us.I say Singapore might support the US in this case, judging by the fact that Singapore has a current climate that only sees China in an economic light.We are pragmatic, and we will do whatever serves our interests well.China may want to appeal to our ethnicity but that is sorely mistaken.It is presumptious to think our generation and the next will have any feeling for China, once our fathers and grandfathers' generation pass on.

|-|05| SG

Note that China is going to be far more powerful then Soviet Union..
under new brains and with much more populations and more advanced weapons taken from Russia

Note also that due to Politics,if Russia see's China getting to strong she will cosy up to the US and heck even join Nato or some freaky allience with the US.So when China invades Taiwan,the US steps in with Japan and with Russia joining in and maybe even India taking advantage will see China extremely stretched.Dont forget Tibet,inner mongolia and xinjing?(the western muslim province i dunno the name though) rebelling giving the central government real shit.Do not forget that oil will be cut frm both Russia and the rest of the world.Making China ending up screwed.
If China wants war it had better be done in 3 years otherwise as it's economy gets more intertwined with the rest of the world the less it can afford a war.
However with the US caught up like it is now it can ill afford another war too.As it is,US is already close to it's breaking point

SibeiSuayKia SG

The National Security Advisor..Ms Rice..just warned China that it will interfere with Taiwan and China itself oso mean business..so sad..

Some of my friends say will support US..
the older generation say will support China..

We are like so close to both of them..no wonder The East and West..

If the East happens to challenge the West..its a real sticky situation

going against a No.1 Superpower and democracy values..and a chinese friend who helped us and support SAF..

going against a No.1 Best Economy Ally and a commie..a chinese friend with shared culture of chinese new year..and 1.3 billion people..

Anyway if i were to see the DPM , i will surely ask him this question..
den after that outside..will kana catch by ISD.

My Support goes to peace..if really battle going to be very ugly

Singapore oso cannot afford to stay neutral at that time..to help own "race"
or to help a good friend..

Only hope is to exercise restraint. Or improve armed forces , for larger scale conflicts..SAF is built to withstand large conflicts..so..i believe this is a true crucial point for SAF in the next 20 years

Looking around..the neighbouring will not pose a threat to us until 2030?

Anyway lets bring in more chinese fr. china to boost our population??
haha

Cause..
-US warships will be nearby and keep on asking us for entrance into our naval base.
-China will request for us..to damage the warship or not to allow entry
-if US warship passes a double prong attack from South China Sea
and Taiwanese straits and CBG from Korea and Jp likely to come in

We can't trust china even though mr.lee has visited many times..
if they can do it to thier own race by causing a conflict..we may never know..

what?? harrier II range few hundred km only?? how did it served in iraq war??
omg..that is like only for 15 minutes if it goes for mach 1 speed..den need to reffuel??

Nah i think ur wrong =) the harrier range is 1600 miles or converted into km = 2560 km..

max speed is about 1 mach ..=/

anyway with regards to speed..could we like buy it and modify the engines like A4-Su and make it go like Mach 1.5 or 1.6?

that would be super cool as well

http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/military/av8b/av8bspec.htm

guess my url would be more accurate as it comes from the maker himself =)

basically if we wanna go VTOL , we can choose between F-35 and Harrier II
or perhaps a Harrier III =/

The Harrier II in terms of comparison with F-15 and FA-18 clearly loses out
but i only hope that the Harrier II could be compared with those helicopters..

When will we get back the AIM-120 Missiles from USA? or was it returned?

interesting article

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_users_article17.html

|-|05| SG

Nah i think ur wrong =) the harrier range is 1600 miles or converted into km = 2560 km..

max speed is about 1 mach ..=/

anyway with regards to speed..could we like buy it and modify the engines like A4-Su and make it go like Mach 1.5 or 1.6?

that would be super cool as well

http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/military/av8b/av8bspec.htm

guess my url would be more accurate as it comes from the maker himself =)

basically if we wanna go VTOL , we can choose between F-35 and Harrier II
or perhaps a Harrier III =/

The Harrier II in terms of comparison with F-15 and FA-18 clearly loses out
but i only hope that the Harrier II could be compared with those helicopters..

When will we get back the AIM-120 Missiles from USA? or was it returned?

interesting article

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_users_article17.html

actually since it comes frm the maker the more i wld suspect it Wink
anyway i dont think i'm wrong.I quoted the max range for CAS and CAP
the Max range on the site is consistent with the max range i get for ferry configuration.Meaning Max internal fuel plus Max external fuel with out weapons.most of the sources online point to 1600nm++++ range some even go as high as 1900nm
As for speed?No site neither books point towards it being able to break the sound barrier...but no the harrier cannot be compare with choppers.Why? because they are used for different purposes.
and i doubt the A4's can break the barrier.....the airframes most likely cannot take it!
Oh and we took back the Aim-120 earlier this yr so yea we have them Smile

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