Singapore revives naval helicopter competition

last SG · 2004-05-13T13:30:13+00:00

did the lafayette sink any ships?? but then we still buy what.... moreover... the last formidable ship wont be out for quite afew years... why the rush to p...

cavsg SG

ok cool it, no point carrying on arguing else you want the moderators to shut this topic.

cavsg SG

S-70 specs
http://www.sikorsky.com/file/popup/1,,169,00.pdf

AS-532 specs
http://www.eurocopter.com/site/FO/doc/TD_532SC_2002.pdf

NH-90 specs
http://www.nhindustries.com/pa4.htm#anchor274534

zenden9 SG

AS-532 will be the best candiate! From france same as frigate and plenty of spare as army operate super-puma! If come worst to worst,will buy 2 NH-90 and 2 AS-532!

storywolf SG

Tripwire,

Get back to the real world, stop dreaming. The world of UAV to replace the maritime heli is still very much of future.

Face the fact, there is not a single navy that is at the moment phasing out their maritime heli for UAVs. Infact there is still maritime heli development project going on, that already prove my point.

If you wish to argue on that, that mean you are arguing with the whole world navies experts ! Yes the US navy is doing UAVs study but they are themselves are not replace their maritime helis, they are still getting replacements maritime heli and coming out ships with heli pad !

If UAV techology is so good, then why we need the frigates, we may as well armed a large number of some smaller remote control boats with anti-air and anti-ship and send them out !

Also no need to soldiers, all go room there and play remote control cars, send out lots of remote control cars armed with guns. No need BMT training, all go BRC( Basic Remote Control Training )

Who don't wish for that, but technology now is still not there !

sgFish SG

why not get one AH-1W for ground support for our LSTs also..ok its off topic..nvm

tripwire SG

i am in the real world... just so happened that you are living in the old world.

we must consider the potential of UAVs in 5 years time when our last FFG rolls off the shipyard.... and how our FFG gonna perform its mission against new technology and innovations for the next 20 years after that!! NOT follow some old concept blindly!!

if you think that UAVs arent ready in present times.... think again!!

even during this present time... we are using UAVs' technologies in so many areas, just to name afew below...

1. AShM (harpoon,exocet),

2. SAM (aster, mistral,rapier,I-hawk, patriot),

3. AGMs(maverick, hellfire)

4. ASW( torpedos)

5. SOW (apache,storm shadow)

6. AAW (AMRAAM, sparrow, sidewinder)

7. SSM (TLAM)

8. ATGM (SPIKE FOGM, MILAN)

ALL the above are in fact UCAVs!! their technical concept and technological base are not much different from a UAV... except they carry a warhead and was designed to destroy their assigned target!

the UAV... just happend to be an extension of that group of UCAV that is build for the purpose of surveilance instead of one way suicide mission.

and how long have all those missiles above been with us? some are even born before we are!! the isrealis IAI HARPY is the clear example of the undeniable close if not identical similarity in technology between a UAV and a STRIKE MISSILE.

so... while our NAVY looks to the future admist our strinking manpower pool (which looks set to strink even further), by applying more levarage on technology... shouldnt we at least give UAVs an equal chance to compete agains the naval helo?

i believe i have already proven beyond any doubt of the rising capability of the UAV and their relative cost efficiency....

so... why be not think out of the box? why rush into a helo buy now when our last FFG wont even be floating in the sea for another 5 years?? cant we wait a few years before we make the final choice?

even if after afew years when our FFG are ready and IF the navy still opt for a manned. helo... hopefully, newer technology would become available to our helo or perhaps in view of the competition between UAV and helo... the price tag might just drop.!

and you might never know... if a newer more advance tech might become available that would enable our FFG to nail those scorpene subs more effectively... or customised our helo electonic suits that would enable us to deal with the scorpene....

duotiga83 SG

1 word sums it all IF

tripwire SG

indeed... until then... i sincerely reccomend the navy to evaluate the potential role of UAVs on our FFGs rather then blindly throw away afew hundred millions of dollars of limited funds at a potential dinosaur now.

as advances in SOW continues to make rapid progress... its just gonna be a matter of time... before UAVs roles gets to expand by leaps and bounds...

already... our own local scalable MAV-1 stealth UCAV has indicated a potential that cannot be denied.... while our local LALEE appears similar in concept to the USA BAMS project... but more ambitious!

zenden9 SG

Blindly throw away millions of dollars on Naval Helo??? I shall say RSN will throw away millions of dollars if they choose UAV instead of naval helo for our frigate! By the way,ST and DSTA cannot afford extensive R&D on naval UAV!(too costly).They will be venturing totally into a new playground and the trial and error will suck up their fund.

storywolf SG

tripwire,

If according to you, the whole military world should just stop manufacturing helicopters and go into UAV ! But why everyone is still investing to heli and design new ones. Can't be all military expert & generals in the world are idiots and you are genius.

While you are at it, why not suggest to the Army, since UAV is as advance as you say. Let build a robot army, hey we can even recover the cost by loaning them to the next starwar movie !!!

tripwire SG

we are debating over the UAV vs NAVAL helo issue... your points shows a lack of understanding of the issue at hand... and is truely lacking in professionalism....

your childish opinion is equivalent to saying that we should NOT build FFG until we can prove that the FFG can walk on land!

every platform that was designed, was designed based on requirements... there is no such platforms that can be designed to do everything!

however, even in the army, there are interest on RAVs... if you know what that is...

already there are suggestions that we could actually Remote control our SSPH-1 SPH in the future!

storywolf SG

Hi Tripwire,

You are the one who lack the understanding, professionalism and in the dream world !!! Also you like to put things into people mouth !

All the while I been aruging that Singapore is right in building the Frigates and right to get maritime helicopter for them.

You on the other hand are the one who is saying singapore make big mistake should not build this type of frigate, use UAV, UAV can replace the role of helicopter totally ! send a swamp of them !!!

Don't put things into my mouth and then call me childish ! What I say was, since you are dreaming of the future may as well dream of starwars robots !!! go read the previous posting !!! When did I ever say frigate can walk on land, it is part of your childish dream not mine! Wake up !

Yep like you say even the army in interested on RAVs and suggestion on remote control ..... but research take time, even they can field it, they are still not capable enough to take over a lot of things like replace tanks, heli and others. It will take years. So are we going to do like you say, stop buy tanks, heli and others and pray the technology develop in time and right ? So what wrong will all the rest here that say, it is correct to buy the navy maritime heli ? All just feel that the technology may have advance, but not yet till it is able to replace the role and the capability of a helicopter totally, everyone just feel that there is still years to come before that happen.

storywolf SG

Hi Tripwire,

ok let talk about your so call previous article. X-45 UAV.

http://www.boeing.com/phantom/ucav.html - If this system demonstration program is successful, DoD expects to begin fielding UCAV weapon systems in the 2008 time frame.

Hey, look there is a "if successful" and 2008 !!! Please be reminded this is year 2004 only. Still have 4 yrs to go, so don't go off telling people, "Dump the heli and get UAVs", in 4 yrs the UAV will come in swamp. Right tell them to the enemy, ok don't attack us now, wait till 4 yrs later, we will get the UAV in swamp first , then we will swamp you with UAVs. Yep "if" they work as plan and not behind schedules. We are talking about the present ! not "if" not "2008".

storywolf SG

Tripwire,

Hey someone just trip over his own tripwire ! and sank his own frigate with his UAVs !!!

Tripwire 1st posting !
"hey should have dumped the helos and go for the UAVs instead..."

Tripewire last posting !
"secondly, with respect to your childish comment why didnt the world stop manufacturing helos if UAV is so good... the reason is quite simply becos the helo is able to perform a certain roles either not perform by other platforms or not being perform by other platforms as cost effectively... "

Childish? I have say before, maritime heli will be here to stay for sometime, that is a view share by generals and manufacturers. That is why to prove my point, I ask you the question, why the world did not stop manufacturing maritime heli if UAV is so good and can replace it ? And you have to give the right answer, contradicts to "Dump the helos and go for UAVs". That is what I call sinking your own ship !!!

I will let the rest judge who the childish one. At least I didn't sank my own ship.

tripwire SG

yup... you are so... childish....

and your comprehension skill is terrible to say the least... you should read the thread again... and think again....

Fairyland SG

Not so clear if they are looking for the whole package or just the airframe or somewhere in between......

Wonder if there's any Seahawks/Blackhawk sitting out in AMARC that can somehow be refurbished into MH-60 standard.

The Cougar would offer the best life cycle costs but what's the ASW suite offered?

Is RSN doing Sonobouys or Dunking sonar or both?

SOCC to be ASW console?

Penguin ASM for ASV?

tyco_mun SG

If costs a problem i guess AS532SC best, but rather old platform compared to NH90 leh. And around wat date does the navy want to introduce the helicopters? I a bit sad the EC725 not shortlisted leh…...although it is so damn similar to our super pumas already….

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